HVAC help - pricing? Outside unit is on the decline

[Mike]

Came home last night and the lines were frozen up outside. I let it defrost for 2 hours and restarted the AC and it was frozen up within an hour. Called my local "go to" guy that has bailed me out of many situations and he came out this morning.

He said it's fully charged with R22 but it sounded like a humming/clatter in the compressor on the outside unit. He boosted my pressure a bit to see if it would get things going and it hasn't frozen up yet but not cooling like it should either.

He said a replacement is eminent on the 4 ton unit and using the R410 refrigerant which he stated will usually produce a cooler air flow than the R22.

His price is $2,400 for a turnkey job using a Goodman 4 ton, 13 SEER unit.

Anyone know if that is a good price?

[thegrouse]

I think the price doesn't seem too bad but I would not be so quick to change it out. I have not seen a unit ice up due to a faulty compressor. The coil will freeze up if it is low on freon, dirty or low air flow. I am thinking when you turned it off for 2 hours you did not get all of the ice off. Are you able to view the coil to be sure the slab of ice is melted? Can you see the fins of the coil to determine if they are dirty. Do you have a digital meat/kitchen thermometer you can use to check the air temp blowing out of the registers?

[Uncle Saggy]

Changing the inside section too?


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[Mike]

I have strong airflow at the registers but it's not cold like it was in the past. It has been slow to cool the downstairs area the past week. I changed filters and that made little difference. I ran it for 5 hours on fan only this morning before he arrived so I would have thought it would be ice free at that point?

I have no way to see the coils in the attic. It's in an area that I can't physically access. Why the builder put it there I have no idea??

$2,400 is for the outside unit only, tie in and up and running.

[thegrouse]

5 hours probably would have melted the ice I agree. If you have a thermometer check the discharge air temp. The difference between the return air at the filter and the supply air at the register should be 18-22 degrees. If it is less than that there could be some issues. I have not ran service in years but I do remember then that mismatching newer outdoor units with older indoor units really ruined your chances at better efficiency. I would just hope you were not low on freon due to a leaking indoor coil. Even if you change your outdoor unit you will have problems down the road if your evaporator is leaking. Can you check the discharge air temp and report back?

[Uncle Saggy]

R410 condenser will not work with the present R22 indoor coil


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[Mike]

I mentioned the compatibility and he said that since it is not a really old unit, only 8 years, it is listed as compatible and rated for the R410. He did say there may be an orifice or switch that may need to be changed, I wasn't clear on that part? He said they flush the line sets and coil out and the unit is precharged with the R410 from my understanding.

[Smith]

That's a pretty average price for a condensor change around here. What he's doing is changing the orifice in the evaporator coil so it will play will the the 410. As for the air being colder... Negative. All systems are designed to do around a 20° air temp differential across the evaporator coil. Now 410 is actually a little more efficient as a refrigerant goes as it can carry more btu's per ton. But all of that is factored into the seer rating. If efficiency is your goal you'll really never get more than 13 seed out of that condensor which isnt too impressive. But if you're trying to break up the cost of buying an entire system this is a good path.

[JayB]

I will say that when my unit went out on my 2000 sqft 2 story house, we changed the entire system. Went with 16 seer, dual speed, zone controlled unit. It was about 6 x what you are paying but it is a Lennox unit. My house has NEVER been more comfortable and the upstairs has its own thermostat that allows the system to only cool that area, if necessary. It was well worth getting it all done and to be done with ac problems for good.

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[Silverado]

For comparison I just had outdoor unit and indoor coil replaced with a trane 14 seer for 4k

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[LWolken]

R410 condenser will not work with the present R22 indoor coil


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All depends if its rated for use with R410a.

[txoutdoorsman24]

I mentioned the compatibility and he said that since it is not a really old unit, only 8 years, it is listed as compatible and rated for the R410. He did say there may be an orifice or switch that may need to be changed, I wasn't clear on that part? He said they flush the line sets and coil out and the unit is precharged with the R410 from my understanding.

Make darn sure they flush the system correctly and as best as they can. Make them do it twice if possible!! I never reccomened replacing just the condenser when the system was that old but compatible. Too many variables that can go wrong. I would give my customers the option to do this bc it is cheaper but could be very expletive if not done right. It was always my last choice given. And not bc I was trying to make money. I strongly advise you to get second opinion and get quotes for complete system replacements!!! If that refrigerant gets just the smallest amount of mixture/contaminants in it, you will be screwed. The system WILL fail.
Honestly you could get a complete new system for twice that. Or 3x's if you want a better system. 8 years doesn't seem very old but for systems designed today, they smudgy sky last about 10-12 years. If maintained correctly! Please do yourself and your family a favor, and get options before you pull the trigger. Good luck