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Old 07-20-2021, 09:57 PM   #1
RifleBowPistol
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Default Can you answer this scientific question?

Got a question that has baffled me and my wife for years. I say me and then my wife, because it baffled me for a while, then finally my wife took notice of the situation after a couple of years.

We can put bottle water bottles in the fridge, leave them there for most of a day, few days or a few weeks. They will all be lined up on the bottom shelf. Some of them will freeze, others won't. There does not seem to be any rhyme or reason some do, some don't. It's not always the ones in the same spot. Not always the same number of bottles that freeze. Sometimes we might have three that freeze, other times, there might be five that are frozen.

After about two days, which ever ones are frozen, only those will be frozen days later. I keep wanting to mark the frozen bottles, to keep track, if the same bottles freeze repeatedly, but never took the time. At times, when I find there are multiple frozen bottles, in the fridge, and I want a bottle of water, I will take the frozen ones out, put them on the counter to thaw. Then at some point after they thaw, my wife will put them back in the fridge. I need to mark them before they go back in the fridge, to see if they freeze again. I think they do, but not sure. It seems like we will have the same number of frozen bottles the next day.

There have been water bottles that have stayed in the fridge for over a month and did not freeze, but others have frozen within a day of being put in the fridge.

So why is this?
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Old 07-20-2021, 10:08 PM   #2
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Some bottles are in front of the cold air circulation vent are are in the direct path of sub freezing air. They get lowered below the freezing point through direct contact with the air when the compressor runs, while other bottle further away only get down to the ambient inside temperature of the fridge. A refrigerator that runs the compressor often is likely to have dirty coils, making the cycle less efficient and causing the compressor to work more often. This sub freezing air is blowing more frequently across the bottles and has a better chance of freezing them.

Another critical consideration to this is that I completely made this up, have no actual idea what I’m talking about, but thanks to an engineering degree can bullshxt my through it enough for you to have nodded your head in agreement since the second sentence.


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Old 07-20-2021, 10:09 PM   #3
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And I thought that watching grass grow was intriguing.


I have no clue. Are the bottles touching?
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Old 07-20-2021, 10:10 PM   #4
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https://www.quora.com/Why-did-one-bo...pletely-liquid
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Old 07-20-2021, 10:19 PM   #5
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Thermodynamics
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Old 07-20-2021, 10:19 PM   #6
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Nucleation.

Always fun to take a bottle of water out of the freezer that is still liquid, open it, and watch it turn to ice as soon as you twist the cap off.
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Old 07-20-2021, 10:25 PM   #7
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this is a neat one. assuming all the bottles are the same shape, volume, material, and wall thickness, that only leaves a few other considerations. you said it's not related to position in the fridge so that rules out environmental factors and that given a long time some still won't freeze. this really only leaves what's inside the bottles to explain different behavior.

Do you fill the bottles to the same level every time? variations in the water level combined with the temperature of the water when you fill it can change the internal pressure as temperature drops and the bottle is sealed (ideal gas law). This would be particularly pronounced in bottles that are stiff enough to resist deformation due to a pressure gradient across the wall thickness.

additionally you very likely don't have pure water and will have a solution of whatever was in the ground water plus what gets left over when it's treated and even the pipe itself, as well as any residual chemicals from washing the bottle (if that's something you do regularly). if you have particularly hard or soft water this could also be the cause. by having a water solution rather than pure water you get some variance in the actual freezing point, and if your fridge is tuned to be near freezing you would get some weird behavior like this.
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Old 07-20-2021, 10:26 PM   #8
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This is great !
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Old 07-20-2021, 10:37 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BayouCat View Post
Nucleation.

Always fun to take a bottle of water out of the freezer that is still liquid, open it, and watch it turn to ice as soon as you twist the cap off.

That happened to me this wknd
Kinda threw me, put two one gallon bottles of drinking water jn the freezer Friday night so we would have cold water while we were working Saturday
When I got them out of the freezer the next morning they were both still fluid which seemed weird, I put them in the ice chest as we headed out to cut some wood, opened the chest and grabbed a bottle and it was mostly frozen. Thought I was
Losing my mind!


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Old 07-20-2021, 10:42 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by txpitdog View Post
Some bottles are in front of the cold air circulation vent are are in the direct path of sub freezing air. They get lowered below the freezing point through direct contact with the air when the compressor runs, while other bottle further away only get down to the ambient inside temperature of the fridge. A refrigerator that runs the compressor often is likely to have dirty coils, making the cycle less efficient and causing the compressor to work more often. This sub freezing air is blowing more frequently across the bottles and has a better chance of freezing them.

Another critical consideration to this is that I completely made this up, have no actual idea what I’m talking about, but thanks to an engineering degree can bullshxt my through it enough for you to have nodded your head in agreement since the second sentence.


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I left out info, the bottom shelf is not tall enough for the bottles to stand up, so they are all laying horizontally, usually with the bottoms of the bottles facing towards the door. When we load a bunch of bottles in there out of a package. We will stack them two high. But it's random bottles that freeze, not necessarily bottles laying side by side. If they are stacked, there can be frozen bottles in the bottom row and the top row, again randomly. But at times, there will be a couple frozen side by side.

Last edited by RifleBowPistol; 07-20-2021 at 11:05 PM.
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Old 07-20-2021, 10:44 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pstraw View Post
And I thought that watching grass grow was intriguing.


I have no clue. Are the bottles touching?
If there are a bunch of them yes. Most likely when they freeze, they are touching each other. So there are frozen bottles in contact with bottles that are not even close to frozen, no ice chunks, nothing in some bottles.
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Old 07-20-2021, 11:02 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BayouCat View Post
Nucleation.

Always fun to take a bottle of water out of the freezer that is still liquid, open it, and watch it turn to ice as soon as you twist the cap off.
I don't remember this ever happening, but not going to say it has not.

Usually, I look in the fridge, and look for the darker looking bottles, if they have only been in the fridge for four hours or less. Seems the ones that have a darker look to them are the colder ones. The ones that are lighter or more clear colored, typically look lighter, brighter or clearer. If they have only been in the fridge for half a day or less, I usually can see a difference in how the bottles look. Once they have been in the fridge for a day or more, I feel to see which ones can be squeezed and which ones are hard as a rock. If I want a drink right now I grab a soft bottle. If I am going to be working out in the heat for a good while, I may grad a soft bottle for now and frozen bottle for later. Basically take the frozen one outside and let it thaw out.

Now on how the bottles look when they have only been in the fridge for a few hours, my theory on the darker bottles are colder, is usually correct, but now 100% of the time that is the case. Once they are frozen solid you can look at them and tell they are frozen, or if there is a lot of stuff on the second from the bottom shelf and it's hard to see the water bottles, like I said, I just reach in and feel for a soft bottle. As the number off bottles gets low, that's when I finally take the frozen ones out, set them on the counter to thaw out. We do at times get partially frozen bottles, where there is ice up at the top, in the neck or the top half or so, is frozen from in the center of the bottle, not all the way to the sides of the bottle. So when grabbing them, it's hard to tell they are frozen, until you get them out and take the lid off. I am pretty sure we only get the partially frozen bottles, after they have been in the fridge for at least three days, but possibly less. I want to say we get the partially frozen bottles, is after they have been in the fridge for close to a week.

Last edited by RifleBowPistol; 07-20-2021 at 11:06 PM.
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Old 07-20-2021, 11:27 PM   #13
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The ones that don't freeze are the ones that sweat from the bottler dripped into while being bottled.
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Old 07-21-2021, 12:05 AM   #14
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I’ve got one for y’all.

If you put 25 pounds of fish in your live well in the boat, does your boat weight 25 pounds more? Live well is full of water of course.
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Old 07-21-2021, 12:16 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
Thermodynamics
this explains why jelly toast always lands jelly side down
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Old 07-21-2021, 06:28 AM   #16
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Burt Reynolds died….
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Old 07-21-2021, 06:45 AM   #17
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Burt Reynolds died….
Thank you.....maybe this thread will die now.
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Old 07-21-2021, 08:20 AM   #18
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What kind of fridge? By that I mean freezer on top or bottom? Either way I think it could be 1 or both of 2 things. First would be air circulation. Like TxPit said their is freezing air circulating in. Depending on where it is coming from (top or bottom) and what else is in the fridge the air could move differently at different times. For example, if it is coming from the top and you have a gallon of milk on the top shelf, the placement of the milk could change which bottles the "air current" hits at different times. I would say this is less likely though as a reason. I think the primary reason as dhall stated is the difference in what is in the water bottles themselves. I think different water bottles could have slightly different makeups, even coming from the same package. If one has a little more salinity (or fluoride or chlorine, or whatever) than another one they could freeze differently.

Nothing scientific from me, just my WAG...
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Old 07-21-2021, 08:29 AM   #19
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pee pee
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Old 07-21-2021, 08:34 AM   #20
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Sounds like your fridge is too cold.
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Old 07-21-2021, 08:37 AM   #21
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This is great !
But this poster is NOT.
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Old 07-21-2021, 09:13 AM   #22
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One word...……………………………….PLASTICS.
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Old 07-21-2021, 09:49 AM   #23
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Adjust your Flux capacitor!
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Old 07-21-2021, 09:52 AM   #24
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More impurities in the ones that didn't freeze
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Old 07-21-2021, 09:59 AM   #25
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I noticed this during the freeze in feb. had a 24 pack in back of the truck. Most were frozen but maybe 6-7 we’re not even slushy
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Old 07-21-2021, 10:03 AM   #26
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My only question is does RPB know where the Post Reply button is? Or is every response a novel?
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Old 07-21-2021, 10:05 AM   #27
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Juicedratic Equation, kept inside a safe, inside a vault inside a volcano.
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Old 07-21-2021, 10:10 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txpitdog View Post
Some bottles are in front of the cold air circulation vent are are in the direct path of sub freezing air. They get lowered below the freezing point through direct contact with the air when the compressor runs, while other bottle further away only get down to the ambient inside temperature of the fridge. A refrigerator that runs the compressor often is likely to have dirty coils, making the cycle less efficient and causing the compressor to work more often. This sub freezing air is blowing more frequently across the bottles and has a better chance of freezing them.

Another critical consideration to this is that I completely made this up, have no actual idea what I’m talking about, but thanks to an engineering degree can bullshxt my through it enough for you to have nodded your head in agreement since the second sentence.


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Hahaha! This is brilliant!
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Old 07-21-2021, 10:19 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BayouCat View Post
Nucleation.

Always fun to take a bottle of water out of the freezer that is still liquid, open it, and watch it turn to ice as soon as you twist the cap off.
I prefer it when this happens to my bottled beer rather than water. Forms a really nice slush
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Old 07-21-2021, 10:37 AM   #30
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I think this is one of the dumbest threads I have ever seen lol
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Old 07-21-2021, 02:35 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mexico View Post
My only question is does RPB know where the Post Reply button is? Or is every response a novel?
Your input ain't helping answer my question. I supplied every bit of info I can remember, on this subject. I have thought about it a few times, every answer I start to come up with, I can shoot down quickly. Beyond me.
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Old 07-21-2021, 02:36 PM   #32
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Easy. The female water bottles are colder. They can't help it.
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Old 07-21-2021, 02:37 PM   #33
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You have to get them down to 278 below zero.
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Old 07-21-2021, 02:44 PM   #34
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Put all the bottles in the freezer and they will all freeze. Problem solved. Next Question.

Pick any number 1-1000, Times it by 2, Add 300 to that number, Divided that number in half, Subtract the number you started with, Answer is always 150 no mater what number you pick.

Last edited by Bassdeer; 07-21-2021 at 02:50 PM.
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Old 07-21-2021, 03:08 PM   #35
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Here's one for you. Ever put a bottle of water in an RV or dorm type refrigerator in the freezer compartment? Take it out and many times it will not be frozen, but very cold. If you open it, sometimes they will freeze as soon as the air hits the water. The freezing will take about 4-5 seconds to go from the top to the bottom of the bottle and the water will become slushy ice.
You can sometimes leave them closed and thump the neck, or set it on a table a little hard, or shake it gently and the same thing will happen. I think it's when the water is almost exactly 32 degrees when this occurs.
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Old 07-21-2021, 03:44 PM   #36
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Salt content from different batches of water.
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Old 07-21-2021, 03:57 PM   #37
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come on bow season !
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Old 07-21-2021, 04:22 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassdeer View Post

Pick any number 1-1000, Times it by 2, Add 300 to that number, Divided that number in half, Subtract the number you started with, Answer is always 150 no mater what number you pick.
Man thats craaaazy!! I've tried it probably 200 times and it comes out the same every time! What kind of witchcraft is this?
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Old 07-21-2021, 04:39 PM   #39
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I had the same question from "snowpocalypse"
https://youtu.be/YF522uXXYjU
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Old 07-21-2021, 08:58 PM   #40
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The reason this happens is because you have your fridge set too cold......
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Old 07-21-2021, 09:03 PM   #41
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pressure. the ones that don't freeze have higher internal pressure.
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Old 07-21-2021, 09:10 PM   #42
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Its just the pressure difference in 1 bottle vs the other. The bottle with lower pressure will freeze first. Ever seen a can or bottle thats all liquid turn to slush when it is opened? It's from the sudden pressure drop and the temp actually drops a bit when the pressure is release.
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Old 07-21-2021, 09:11 PM   #43
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Missed the last post. Drifter nailed it.
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Old 07-21-2021, 09:17 PM   #44
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I put water bottles in the fridge and they are never there when I want one.
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Old 07-21-2021, 09:29 PM   #45
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I don’t know the right answer. But the other day I grabbed a bottle of water out of the garage fridge and poured it over a glass of ice and it turned to ice slush. I poured that voodoo out and and drank out of the hose.
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Old 07-21-2021, 10:52 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RLB View Post
I put water bottles in the fridge and they are never there when I want one.

My kids probably got yours after drinking all of mine. I should say, after taking a few drinks out of each bottle and discarding the rest!


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Old 07-21-2021, 11:22 PM   #47
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No wonder I took so long to open this thread....
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Old 07-21-2021, 11:44 PM   #48
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It is the slight pressure difference bottle to bottle, For every pound of pressure, it takes 7 less degrees to freeze.
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Old 07-22-2021, 05:15 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draco View Post
It is the slight pressure difference bottle to bottle, For every pound of pressure, it takes 7 less degrees to freeze.
I buy the pressure bit, but the formula for lbs/freezing point doesn't seem right;
City water pressure 50 lbs. 50 X 7 = 350. Don't believe it takes -382° to freeze my outside hydrant.

I usually don't worry about my outside faucet down to 29°, below that I shut them off.

Last edited by hpdrifter; 07-22-2021 at 06:05 AM.
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Old 07-22-2021, 08:43 AM   #50
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After typing out all that I could remember about the bottles in the fridge, I think I have figured out what has to be going on. I am pretty sure at least one person came up with the answer early on.

I got to thinking about the fact some of the water bottles refract light differently, some seem to reflect more light than others. Seems the ones that reflect more light are also the bottles that get the coldest and most likely freeze. I am sure that the water molecules being different temperature, colder ones moving slower, is why some of the bottles reflect less light.
I have concluded that there has to be some minor differences in the bottles, even though they are most likely manufactured in the same plant, they most likely have a lot of molds that the bottles are made in. I would bet there are slight differences in each of those molds, so the bottles have different wall thicknesses and or different surface finish, or a combinations of the two possibilities. Which affects how good of a insulator each bottle is.

Pressure in the bottles is another good possibility. By increasing pressure in a cooling system, you can change the point when water boils. So changing water pressure should change the temp at which water freezes. I am going to bet because of manufacturing process, bottle pressure from bottle to bottle, is very close to the same, unless, a lid is not sealing. I would bet if they are bottled at the same plant on the same day, the pressures should be the same, less than 1 psi difference. Now if the bottles were bottled at different plants, and the plants are at different altitudes and or have very different barometric pressures, then they get shipped to the same location. Then I could see bottle pressure differences. But when the come out of the same case of water, they were all bottled at the same plant, same day. So the only way I see a difference in bottle pressure amongst those bottles, is if some are not sealed up. It is a possibility.

I think the possibility of the many bottle molds in the plant, having variations between them, is more of a possibility than bottle pressure. Before making this post, I never really thought about the high volume, mass production side of the situation. I am not disagreeing that pressure could not cause this situation. But really don't think there would be much pressure difference, between the bottles in the same package, if they are all sealed.
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