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Aging deer by the lower jaw.

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    #16
    Originally posted by sotx View Post
    I could not agree more. We have a couple of dumb suns a bistquits on our place I swear they think they have the magic tooth finger. Run their finger up a deers mouth and poof they know the age. Idiots. Two examples from this season so far. I had two bucks I have been watching for 4 years and this year they are 6 to seven years old minimum. Ol magic finger not knowing what I know claimed them to be 4 year olds. Even with presented photographic evidence they still were not convinced they could be wrong. Irritates the crap outta me. Even when I pull out the jaws I keep of the deer I have had cementum aged that are 4, 5, 6 and 7 years old. Nope the magic finger never lies.
    Sounds familiar except this guy claims to be able to judge absolute age while on the hoof and is "never" wrong.

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      #17
      Originally posted by ttaxidermy View Post
      It's so inaccurate that it is almost not worth doing..
      I'm mean why? Its almost useless. Best guess type situation.
      That's not true.

      What you say IS true, if being performed by someone who doesn't have a clear understanding of the terminology and methodology (i.e. "Magic Finger Guy"), and its limitations.

      Is it perfect? No.
      Is it good for management purposes? Yes.

      By the way, I love your Avatar photo.

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        #18
        Originally posted by Top Of Texas View Post
        That's not true.

        What you say IS true, if being performed by someone who doesn't have a clear understanding of the terminology and methodology (i.e. "Magic Finger Guy"), and its limitations.

        Is it perfect? No.
        Is it good for management purposes? Yes.

        By the way, I love your Avatar photo.
        Why are you trolling me today.. It's been PROVEN to be all but useless.. You cannot accurately age a deer by looking at its teeth and that's a fact..
        It can and does vary greatly.. How is that useful?? Besides that who shoots a deer based off of what his teeth look like? No one. Your looking at them after the damage has been done..
        Last edited by PondPopper; 01-14-2019, 02:28 PM.

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          #19
          Other than getting one to tell you how old he is it’s about the best way. Field judging is far from an exact science either. You can tell if they are under 3 1/2 pretty easy or over 6 1/2 pretty easy. Same as with the teeth.


          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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            #20
            Originally posted by ttaxidermy View Post
            Why are you trolling me today.. It's been PROVEN to be all but useless.. You cannot accurately age a deer by looking at its teeth and that's a fact..
            It can and does vary greatly.. How is that useful?? Besides that who shoots a deer based off of what his teeth look like? No one. Your looking at them after the damage has been done..
            HA! "Trolling" - Haven't heard that before but needs no definition. Definitely not intentional or targeting you. Over the last 2 years, I've noticed many new/novice/beginner management minded hunters using the GS looking for information and not having the background for discernment. When I see inaccuracies being presented, I like to correct them so people get good info.

            If you're open to it, and there's a possibility you can be swayed, I'm willing to describe the management oriented uses of deer ages based on tooth wear. But sounds like you've got your mind made up. However, if our banter continues then I might do it anyway, just because readers are reading.

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              #21
              Originally posted by Top Of Texas View Post
              HA! "Trolling" - Haven't heard that before but needs no definition. Definitely not intentional or targeting you. Over the last 2 years, I've noticed many new/novice/beginner management minded hunters using the GS looking for information and not having the background for discernment. When I see inaccuracies being presented, I like to correct them so people get good info.

              If you're open to it, and there's a possibility you can be swayed, I'm willing to describe the management oriented uses of deer ages based on tooth wear. But sounds like you've got your mind made up. However, if our banter continues then I might do it anyway, just because readers are reading.
              LOL.. In accuracies?? This is a knee slapper..

              So how exactly does one gain this "background for discernment"?? Books??

              I'm not easily swayed but not closed minded either.. Fire away..

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                #22
                Serious questions,

                If the method is so unreliable why is it used so commonly?

                Lack of anything better? easier?

                Just curious why TPWD or biologists pull jaw bones if it is a crap shoot?

                I can understand how tooth wear can vary by region and environment
                i.e. a deer eating out of a trough vs one picking up corn out of sand

                BTW, I think it would help on threads like this if you posted your qualifications
                For example mine might be "typical uneducated hunter trying to learn".
                That way when someone comes along and reads my opinion followed by a reply from a "25yr wildlife biologist" and they are opposite folks would have a better idea of who should be relied on more

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                  #23
                  Originally posted by ttaxidermy View Post

                  I'm not easily swayed but not closed minded either.. Fire away..
                  First, I want to encourage everyone to take the concept of tooth aging being an exact science, meaning every deer's teeth wears exactly the same, and flush that down the toilet of your brain. Replace it with this concept: Tooth aging is really really good for determining young, middle aged, and old in nearly all deer, thus it can be used for management purposes.

                  Let's address an item dear to the heart of most Green Screen users. "Did I kill that buck at a good old age with what could be its best set of antlers?"

                  Scenario 1: A group lease has killed 5 bucks per year for 5 years. They complain they can't grow big bucks, seem to peak around 130-135 B&C. Tooth wear age shows all 25 bucks to be be 3-5 years old. Staying focused on the topic, what's the management decision to be made?

                  Important for doe as well.
                  Scenario 2: A high fence propery has been heavily killing doe for 6 years trying to reduce population size, but doe are becoming hard to find, and hunters can't reach their quota. Their biologist pressures them to try harder. The lease boss, who understands tooth wear, shows the biologist doe ages. The first year of doe harvest showed a wide distribution of doe ages from 1-8 yrs with a peak around 4 yrs. The last year of harvest showed doe age to peak at 2 yrs with only a few 5 yrs. Staying focused on the topic, what's the management decision to be made?

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by BTLowry View Post
                    BTW, I think it would help on threads like this if you posted your qualifications
                    For example mine might be "typical uneducated hunter trying to learn".
                    That way when someone comes along and reads my opinion followed by a reply from a "25yr wildlife biologist" and they are opposite folks would have a better idea of who should be relied on more
                    It's not a crap-shoot. The problem occurs when people apply it to situations outside the limits of the method. For example: kicking people off.

                    I strive to make discussions that are compelling, persuasive, practical, as well as science and experience based. I would hope that readers can discern for themselves what side of the fence to land without the need for flashing resumes. It's often the counter argument that spurs the disclosure of additional evidence as a debate develops. If a reader has a differing opinion, belief, or experience, how might their post change based on the resume of the responder? Would they hold back if they were under the impression they were debating with an "Expert"? Finally, some level of anonymity allows freedom from accusations of pride or ego. How high and mighty can someone feel if no one knows who they are. I make these posts, not to be percieved as the expert, rather, solely for the hope of improving the experiences and successes of my fellow Texas hunters.

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                      #25
                      Seriously? Come on guys/gals, it's been over a week.

                      No takers on the scenarios described in post #23 above?

                      Those are not hypotheticals, it's going on all over Texas. Real life examples of the management importance of age by tooth wear. Give it a shot - what are the management implications?

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                        #26
                        I will, I will!

                        Scenario 1; If the tooth estimate show bucks being 3-5 years of age, that is bucks being taken before all of their potential has been exhausted. I think the solution is to convince the hunters next season, to take a bunch of doe and to bypass taking bucks for one season, unless a "wallhanger" shows his face. Presently, now start planting plots and add some supplemental feed and possibly add some minerals stations. However the plots and minerals will take years to show a difference. Letting bucks walk requires some discipline but is the quickest way to see an improvement.

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                          #27
                          Scenario 2; Based up on your info, let the doe live for a year and allow the hunters to take a "normal" quota. It seems that a lot of pressure has been put on doe harvest....uhoh, there's that word. In effect, they have successfully lowered the age range of the doe. Give them a break.

                          One word on tooth aging. I don't think teeth from a 3-5 year old deer from the Hill country will look the same as 3-5 deer from the Mid West simply because of food types. In the Hill Country, deer eat a lot of corn right off the ground, chewing a lot of sand, thus increasing tooth wear. So I think it has to be a regional comparison standard.

                          Im not a big fan of tooth wear aging simply because 90 percent of us have no idea how to judge them properly. Then next thing you know you are kicked off a lease by someone in that 90 percent.
                          Last edited by lovemylegacy; 01-26-2019, 07:24 PM.

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                            #28
                            Lets breathe some life back into this thread.

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                              #29
                              Originally posted by Top Of Texas View Post
                              Seriously? Come on guys/gals, it's been over a week.

                              No takers on the scenarios described in post #23 above?

                              Those are not hypotheticals, it's going on all over Texas. Real life examples of the management importance of age by tooth wear. Give it a shot - what are the management implications?
                              I guess I presumed you was an expert and thats why I engaged the conversation with you. I look at the teeth on virtually every deer we kill. I agree its a tool to determine general age class and can be useful as such. However... knowing what the tooth wear looks like on known age deer on your property is critical to even that use.

                              You said tooth wear on same age class deer was similar in some named regions and I agree. The thing missing from your statement was how deer from the heavily wooded East Tx area compare. I maintain that teeth wear considerably slower here compared to other parts of the state due to softer browse and less grit. I truely believe deer would live a natural life in East Tx averaging at least two years longer than West tx. Especially if the property has high grade food plots.

                              In the examples you gave, age and nutrition are the answer.
                              Last edited by GarGuy; 01-29-2019, 11:12 AM.

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                                #30
                                If there is sand, then they may appear to be older.

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