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Old 01-15-2017, 07:24 PM   #1
cattlelackranch
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Default Silencer/Suppressor Bill making some headway

http://freebeacon.com/issues/republi...s-of-congress/
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Old 01-15-2017, 07:54 PM   #2
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I seen the double post. But the triple thread? Talent
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Old 01-15-2017, 07:57 PM   #3
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Fingers crossed. The stock pile is already happening
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Old 01-15-2017, 08:08 PM   #4
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waiting...
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Old 01-15-2017, 08:09 PM   #5
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Saw that on Fox news as well. I wonder how they will treat what is now a Form 1, if I want to build my own?
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Old 01-15-2017, 08:16 PM   #6
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I guess I'm in the minority of hoping it doesn't pass to avoid every swinging blah blah to have one out in the field?

I kinda like the whole special club deal like being P&Y on here

Would 100% be for a law that knocked the wait time down to a couple weeks or a month though
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Old 01-15-2017, 08:20 PM   #7
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I guess I'm in the minority of hoping it doesn't pass to avoid every swinging blah blah to have one out in the field?

I kinda like the whole special club deal like being P&Y on here

Would 100% be for a law that knocked the wait time down to a couple weeks or a month though
That's just dumb
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Old 01-15-2017, 08:24 PM   #8
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That's just dumb
Figured that will be majority of people's responses but was just curious
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Old 01-15-2017, 08:28 PM   #9
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Saw that on Fox news as well. I wonder how they will treat what is now a Form 1, if I want to build my own?
...or the three stamps I have paid for as of a couple weeks ago.
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Old 01-15-2017, 08:34 PM   #10
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...or the three stamps I have paid for as of a couple weeks ago.
Yep, this.......
Hopefully the demand will drive inovation in the suppressor and subsonic market.
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Old 01-15-2017, 08:36 PM   #11
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If this passes, I bet we'll see integrally suppressed guns right on the shelf. removing regulation almost always increases the rate of technology and availability.

There's no good reason for this to be a law anyway. just another money grabbing tactic
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Old 01-15-2017, 08:36 PM   #12
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That's just dumb
Ya pretty dumb
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Old 01-15-2017, 08:37 PM   #13
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The only bad thing will be increase prices on cans.
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Old 01-15-2017, 08:40 PM   #14
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The only bad thing will be increase prices on cans.
For a while, things will settle down. Competition is good for the market.

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Old 01-15-2017, 08:41 PM   #15
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The only bad thing will be increase prices on cans.
And the shortage for who knows how long.
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Old 01-15-2017, 08:41 PM   #16
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The wait is what's kept me from the acquisition. I would love to see it pass
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Old 01-15-2017, 08:43 PM   #17
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Default Silencer/Suppressor Bill making some headway

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Originally Posted by TexMax View Post
I seen the double post. But the triple thread? Talent


Lol

Tapatalk kept kicking it back and locking up on me.
I didn't even think one went through much less 3. I really just gave up and then POOF....I'm instantly THAT GUY!

Hope the mods help clear it up and remove the double/triple threads.

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Old 01-15-2017, 08:48 PM   #18
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Hope it passes, I would love to have a silenced 22, but $1,000 love.
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Old 01-15-2017, 08:50 PM   #19
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...or the three stamps I have paid for as of a couple weeks ago.
If the bill passes as written you would receive a refund for those stamps. Freeing up funds to purchase another without the wait and donation to the BATF.
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Old 01-15-2017, 08:52 PM   #20
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The only bad thing will be increase prices on cans.
I've wondered about that, and it could go either way IMO. On one hand, people are used to paying $800 for a can plus a $200 tax stamp, and then waiting 6 months for it. The suppressor manufacturers (or more likely dealers) raising prices to $1,000 but being able to take it home today would seem like a better deal. Not to mention that a lot of people that have been putting off buying them will now, so they will be flying off the shelves and hard to keep in stock. I expect this to happen short term.

On the other hand, there hasn't been much of a push for cheaper suppressors from consumers. When you're paying a $200 stamp and have to wait 6 months to get it. you want something that is well made and going to last a long time. There is also a relatively low number of cans sold every year, so it is tough for new companies to enter the market and drive competition, not to mention economies of scale. People will want cheaper cans, there will be more manufacturers, more cans sold, technology will progress faster, and non-flagship cans will drop in price. I except this to happen long term.
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Old 01-15-2017, 08:56 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by gatorgrizz27 View Post
I've wondered about that, and it could go either way IMO. On one hand, people are used to paying $800 for a can plus a $200 tax stamp, and then waiting 6 months for it. The suppressor manufacturers (or more likely dealers) raising prices to $1,000 but being able to take it home today would seem like a better deal. Not to mention that a lot of people that have been putting off buying them will now, so they will be flying off the shelves and hard to keep in stock. I expect this to happen short term.

On the other hand, there hasn't been much of a push for cheaper suppressors from consumers. When you're paying a $200 stamp and have to wait 6 months to get it. you want something that is well made and going to last a long time. There is also a relatively low number of cans sold every year, so it is tough for new companies to enter the market and drive competition, not to mention economies of scale. People will want cheaper cans, there will be more manufacturers, more cans sold, technology will progress faster, and non-flagship cans will drop in price. I except this to happen long term.
Just wait until all the cheapos get into it if the bill were to pass.

Bet they'll make you eat your words
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Old 01-15-2017, 09:18 PM   #22
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Just wait until all the cheapos get into it if the bill were to pass.

Bet they'll make you eat your words
....then just buy something more reputable or higher dollar...??

Also, there's plenty of other special clubs you can join bud.
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Old 01-15-2017, 09:21 PM   #23
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....then just buy something more reputable or higher dollar...??

Also, there's plenty of other special clubs you can join bud.
Didn't know I geared that post towards you. My apologies "bud"
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Old 01-15-2017, 09:43 PM   #24
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Didn't know I geared that post towards you. My apologies "bud"
It wasn't, just wasn't following your logic is all. Wasn't trying to ruffle feathers. I personally think it's a good idea fwiw.
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Old 01-15-2017, 11:04 PM   #25
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It's good that this is making the news cycle.

The crazy thing is it will drive the tertiary players out.


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Old 01-15-2017, 11:27 PM   #26
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So I understand that you will get a tax stamp refund on any "recent" suppressor purchases, that's awesome. But what will I do with my trust? Do I transfer my current cans to myself or do I leave them as trust property? Would it be possible or beneficial for me to somehow use my trust to purchase additional items if this does pass?

I'm all for this to pass!

But... Like 150class, I guess I'm gonna have to find another "cool kid" club to join. But I'm running out of clubs. The hipsters ruined beards, craft brews, and flannel for me.
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Old 01-16-2017, 01:14 AM   #27
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Leave them in the trust and put everything else in the trust and use the trust as an estate planning tool

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Old 01-16-2017, 02:06 AM   #28
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I wonder when it can pass?


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Old 01-16-2017, 07:30 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Mesquite Archer View Post
If the bill passes as written you would receive a refund for those stamps. Freeing up funds to purchase another without the wait and donation to the BATF.
I'm sure I'll receive the cans before the govt gets around to passing this...it's exactly why I didn't wait as anything they do doesn't happen expediently. Hopefully they will do some sorta grandfather clause for us in the window, but I'm not gonna fret about it.
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Old 01-16-2017, 07:44 AM   #30
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...or the three stamps I have paid for as of a couple weeks ago.


They can have my stamp money for my 2 if they will just fast track this through and instantly approve all stamps that are currently pending.

I'm at 199 days as of today.


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Old 01-16-2017, 07:47 AM   #31
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They can have my stamp money for my 2 if they will just fast track this through and instantly approve all stamps that are currently pending.

I'm at 199 days as of today.


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And why? They can find out everything they need to find out about you in 10 minutes. Typical government inefficiency.

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Old 01-16-2017, 07:49 AM   #32
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So I understand that you will get a tax stamp refund on any "recent" suppressor purchases, that's awesome. But what will I do with my trust? Do I transfer my current cans to myself or do I leave them as trust property? Would it be possible or beneficial for me to somehow use my trust to purchase additional items if this does pass?



I'm all for this to pass!



But... Like 150class, I guess I'm gonna have to find another "cool kid" club to join. But I'm running out of clubs. The hipsters ruined beards, craft brews, and flannel for me.


Why would anything be any different? You use the trust for reasons other than the fingerprints and photos which was nullified anyway with the passage of 41F. You also no longer have to have CLEO approval, just notification.


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Old 01-16-2017, 07:55 AM   #33
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I have 8 cans.....
I hope it passes and they can keep my money.
It is a silly law any way.
In South Africa guns are hard to buy but you can buy a can at Wal Mart.
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Old 01-16-2017, 08:05 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Mike D View Post
They can have my stamp money for my 2 if they will just fast track this through and instantly approve all stamps that are currently pending.

I'm at 199 days as of today.


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...im at two weeks. ughhhh
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Old 01-16-2017, 08:10 AM   #35
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Hope it passes, I would love to have a silenced 22, but $1,000 love.
You can suppress two .22 rifles for that assuming you already have the rifle. 200 dollar cans are out there

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I wonder when it can pass?


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Trump supposedly said he was signing it in the first 100 days...


Prices are already lower than when I bought my first. 725 for an sdn 6 last week. That said it can rise a couple 100 and still be at what it cost when they first became legal

I've been told the manufacturers are building as fast as possible. One rather large supplier is buying them up in anticipation.
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Old 01-16-2017, 08:13 AM   #36
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Default Silencer/Suppressor Bill making some headway

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...im at two weeks. ughhhh


I figure I'll be lucky to have them in hand in April since they are not through a local dealer (still in Texas though).

It's asinine the approval process takes so long.

I have a couple more I want. I guess I need to get with it if I want to have them by 2017 hunting season.


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Old 01-16-2017, 08:20 AM   #37
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I guess I'm in the minority of hoping it doesn't pass to avoid every swinging blah blah to have one out in the field?

I kinda like the whole special club deal like being P&Y on here

Would 100% be for a law that knocked the wait time down to a couple weeks or a month though
Lol, you could be in the special club of people actually capable of shooting accurately with one.

Half the conversations I hear from AR guys with suppressors at ASC. "Yeah, I shoot sub MOA all day long with this thing". 5 min later, we go down to the targets, they are lucky to hit a 12" target.
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Old 01-16-2017, 08:42 AM   #38
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The hipsters ruined beards, craft brews, and flannel for me.
That is the funniest thing I have heard in a while.
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Old 01-16-2017, 08:44 AM   #39
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I think if you already have a CHL that should be good enough to pickup a suppressor the day you purchase. IMO
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Old 01-16-2017, 08:47 AM   #40
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If this passes that's how it will be.


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Old 01-16-2017, 08:53 AM   #41
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If this goes thru, I'm gonna by me that little NC machine I've always wanted... Be a good retirement bidness... Becoming a legal manufacturer should be easier too...
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Old 01-16-2017, 08:59 AM   #42
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Ya pretty dumb

X3

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Originally Posted by MasonCo. View Post
The only bad thing will be increase prices on cans.

I don't see why we'd see an increase in price; certainly not in the long run. Current pricing is based on production for a limited market. Small companies making suppressors one at a time. This means companies need to have a significant profit margin built into each suppressor. If the HPA passes the market will explode opening the opportunity for mass production and for smaller profit margins and lower prices.

Right now, the suppressor market is made up of a very small segment of the shooting community that's willing to pay $750-$1200 on a suppressor. NFA or not, the average Joe is unlikely to spring for that much money for a suppressor. If some of these small companies don't recognize that, they will be in big trouble from companies like Sig that have the capacity to ramp up production and work on smaller margins to bring affordable products (in quantity) to market. Let's face it, while cans are popular on here, they're just not a common item for most US gun owners - they're one of those 'pipe dreams' for the average guy. They're too expensive and the paperwork is too complicated and too much of a hassle for them. If the market is expanded to include all those folks, prices will come down - basic free market principles will come in to play. Remember the Clinton Assault Weapons Ban. When it was in force, lower receivers were crazy expensive. When the ban was allowed to sunset, we didn't see those prices increase or even stay high; we saw them decrease. Today, you can find lowers under $100. Suppressors should be the same.

Of course there will be some initial blips in availability and we may even see SOME price increases. I think those price increases will be from disreputable dealers trying to take advantage of shortages. The manufacturers (at least those with competent CFOs) will be focused on increasing production and reducing the related costs. Suppressors are WAY over-priced for what actually goes into making them. They're simple devices that would be easy to make in mass quantities. While they're NFA items it makes no sense to make them in huge quantities; but the HPA would change all that, if passed.

There is really no down side to the HPA. If we see more companies getting into the suppressor business, we're likely to see advancements in capabilities coming quicker than we do currently. A drastic and sudden increase in the market, and the competition for market share, will fuel R&D much more than we've experienced in the past few years.

JMO




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Old 01-16-2017, 09:00 AM   #43
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I've got my trust and suppressors but to heck with some "club" I really want this to pass. Suppressors should have never been part of the NFA to begin with.
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Old 01-16-2017, 09:21 AM   #44
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X3

I don't see why we'd see an increase in price; certainly not in the long run. Current pricing is based on production for a limited market. Small companies making suppressors one at a time. This means companies need to have a significant profit margin built into each suppressor. If the HPA passes the market will explode opening the opportunity for mass production and for smaller profit margins and lower prices.

Right now, the suppressor market is made up of a very small segment of the shooting community that's willing to pay $750-$1200 on a suppressor. NFA or not, the average Joe is unlikely to spring for that much money for a suppressor. If some of these small companies don't recognize that, they will be in big trouble from companies like Sig that have the capacity to ramp up production and work on smaller margins to bring affordable products (in quantity) to market. Let's face it, while cans are popular on here, they're just not a common item for most US gun owners - they're one of those 'pipe dreams' for the average guy. They're too expensive and the paperwork is too complicated and too much of a hassle for them. If the market is expanded to include all those folks, prices will come down - basic free market principles will come in to play. Remember the Clinton Assault Weapons Ban. When it was in force, lower receivers were crazy expensive. When the ban was allowed to sunset, we didn't see those prices increase or even stay high; we saw them decrease. Today, you can find lowers under $100. Suppressors should be the same.

Of course there will be some initial blips in availability and we may even see SOME price increases. I think those price increases will be from disreputable dealers trying to take advantage of shortages. The manufacturers (at least those with competent CFOs) will be focused on increasing production and reducing the related costs. Suppressors are WAY over-priced for what actually goes into making them. They're simple devices that would be easy to make in mass quantities. While they're NFA items it makes no sense to make them in huge quantities; but the HPA would change all that, if passed.

There is really no down side to the HPA. If we see more companies getting into the suppressor business, we're likely to see advancements in capabilities coming quicker than we do currently. A drastic and sudden increase in the market, and the competition for market share, will fuel R&D much more than we've experienced in the past few years.
This guys gets it. I will throw two other pennies into the wishing well:

1. Forget about the $200 refund. Even the most conservative Congress in the world ain't gonna go around giving $200 back to every guy who bought a can since fall of 2015. That provision is a sacrificial lamb—the conservatives will offer to kill it in exchange for more votes from those on the fence.

2. My only real concern about this bill passing is what happens when the rabid liberal news media starts reporting about the increase in crimes being committed with suppressors. I hope the voters do not swing the pendulum too far back the other direction.
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Old 01-16-2017, 10:08 AM   #45
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Anxiously waiting.....

Every gun I own that is capable will wear a can.
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Old 01-16-2017, 10:14 AM   #46
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I'm betting RTIC already has one and ready to bang out if it hopefully passes.
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Old 01-16-2017, 04:32 PM   #47
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I wonder how they will treat what is now a Form 1, if I want to build my own?
If the bill passes "as written," making your own can would now be the same as making your own gun, like from an 80% lower. Now government involvement at all.
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Old 01-16-2017, 05:16 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 35remington View Post
If the bill passes "as written," making your own can would now be the same as making your own gun, like from an 80% lower. Now government involvement at all.
Sweet! Hope it goes through so I can finish my form 1.

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Old 01-16-2017, 11:13 PM   #49
ChiefLA3
Spike
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
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For me it's not the money to keep me from the can. It's all the BS. So if I can just get it off the shelf then heck. Keeps me from the lawyer.
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Old 01-16-2017, 11:21 PM   #50
Etxbuckman
Pope & Young
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Spring
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If they're essentially a requirement on firearms in Europe there's no reason for getting and using them in America to be such a PITA. Other than the tax $$ the ATF likes so much.
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