Bob Lee Bow: Shooting without torque

[DRT]

Archery wasn't invented with the internet. I've been liking with bows since before you knew what a bow was. I was taught proper grip on a bow as well. Letting a bow jump may work well for you but I don't seem to have an issue keeping my freezer full shooting the way I was taught back in late 80s. Meat of thumb area against grip, fingers naturally curled around the grip, hand at about a 45* angle and end of finger tips touching front of riser so as bow rolls on release you have a hold of it.
No way in hell am I putting something on my fingers that I can't let go if I need to.
I have complete control of my grip. If you don't, and need a tool, then use it. But personally I'd try to learn how to do it on my own if you are more than a target archer.

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[DRT]

Pistols and bows are different tools, with different requirements. You don't put your entire body under 40-50 lbs of tension parallel to the forces of a pistol's recoil. You have to let the bow jump or your hand is imparting variable torque into the shot because the entire system is moving.



With a pistol, the only part of your body that is experiencing a massive change in force vectors at the shot is your hands. In archery, the entire skeletal chain experiences an instantaneous deloading (as opposed to loading from the recoil of a pistol) when you drop the string. They're polar opposites.

You have obviously not had any combat weapon training.

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[Trumpkin]

Dang Gary, who whizzed in your wheaties? No one's saying you can't shoot good without a finger sling, or a wrist sling. Just saying that you can reduce your bow hand torque by using a simple tool. It's pretty straightforward to test. I'd challenge you to try it for a week and see what you think, but there's nothing wrong with using a system you know works for you.

As for pistol shooting, you're going to have to forgive my truncated explanation of the difference in systems. I've not done hands on combat training with a pistol, you're correct there. You pre load the system so as to get the sights back on target faster, and you work to have the recoil travel in a straight line up your arms and into your torso, right? Doesn't change the fact that a pistol adds force into your muscles at the time of the shot, and a bow shot is a sudden loss of tension in the system.

[DRT]

It's that we tell someone to take a shortcut before helping them to learn to manage it without the tool.

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[SJP51]

I sort of regret bringing it up.

[CamoQuest]

I sort of regret bringing it up.

No, don’t regret it. Granted it opened up a lively discussion, but we’re all still speaking and will probably shoot together again in the future without throwing rocks. Bisch might kick a few, but that’s just ‘cuz he’s Bisch.

To give a little background behind my original comment to Shana, I have been shooting for the last few years with a grip much as Gary described. Knuckles roughly at a 45, riser against the meaty part of thumb, and forefinger lightly touching the riser. Hand relaxed but supporting the bow. I’ve shot well that way, and it’s consistent for me. However, I catch myself ever so often grabbing the bow with my other fingers after the shot, and I’ll see left and right variances. Levy suggested the finger sling. It’s a tool to use to try another way of releasing and keeping a relaxed hand. I don’t know that I’m shooting any different, form wise, with it, but it helps me stay relaxed and strong through the shot. In all actuality, it takes my mind OFF of my hand, because it’s one less thing to think about, and lets me focus on whatever other aspect of my shot I’m working on. Will I always use it? Who knows? A relaxed open hand is working well for target, but I’ll problem switch to a wrist sling soon, simply because that’s easier for me to deal with in a hunting setup.

[Trumpkin]

CamoQuest hit the nail on the head! I'll still shoot with Gary any day (Dunno about that Bisch character though). Questions like this can be very helpful for troubleshooting issues. You do have to learn to sort out differing opinions on the matter. I grip the bow the same as Gary, but I let it jump clean out of my hand. He keeps it under light finger pressure, rather than use a sling. Which one works better for you is up for you to figure out.

I do apologize if I came across too strongly earlier. And that goes for you too Gary!

[Bisch]

Don’t y’all fret!!!! It’s just Gary being Gary!!! [emoji38][emoji38][emoji38]

And I heard that Malachi!!!!

Bisch


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[DRT]

Sorry, got busy. First nobody on here can offend me. I'm to thick skulled and thick skinned for that. Second, just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I don't respect and believe that your point of view is valid. I'm not trying to be offensive. Just saying you can get a clean release without just letting go of your bow.


I'm not a great shot. And yeah, you don't want to clamp down on the bow. But I dang sure should have control of it.
Grip the hell out of your side arm and your going to have trouble with a smooth trigger finger. Don't grip it right and you aren't dropping multiple, rapid fire rounds on target because you won't have control over it. Including the recoil. It takes your whole platform to do that properly and consistently. It isn't like Bad Boys on TV.
Back many years ago an old man worked with me on my grip and the bow would kind of roll forward a bit after the arrow was gone. This was before wrist slings and finger slings. He was a good guy and a highly regarded archer in this area back in the 80s and before. I still use that grip. Works as good on a trad bow as it did on the compounds.

I've been wearing out my phone recording my shooting recently. It's kinda weird watching over and over. Seeing the little mental mistakes. Mostly holding too long and flagging. Double clutch now and then. I see what happens to my bow on release. Believe me that is the least of my issues.
Not a world class shooter. But not clueless either.


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[DRT]

And Trumpkin, everyone knows Fruit Loops rule!!! No nasty milk needed.

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[Trumpkin]

And Trumpkin, everyone knows Fruit Loops rule!!! No nasty milk needed.

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Well that explains a LOT! You're a hopeless case then. It was nice knowing ya.

[helical]

I typically super-torque my bow hand,.. then at the last instant I activate a psycho-triggered flux capacitor to counteract the preload,.. works like a champ,..keeps me sharp.

[Trumpkin]

I typically super-torque my bow hand,.. then at the last instant I activate a psycho-triggered flux capacitor to counteract the preload,.. works like a champ,..keeps me sharp.

You're gonna have to teach me the ways of the force! Maybe at the next AAC club shoot.

[Briar Friar]

I sort of regret bringing it up.

Rat showed me a better way to grip when he noticed I was torqueing my wheel bow and Ive implemented it into my form with all my bows. I shot Robs bow at the Bob Lee shoot out and I didnt notice torque.

Make a “stop” sign with your grip hand. Open palm with thumb out.
Rotate grip hand outwards in the direction of the side of body. Left hand rotate left…which puts your thumb vertically oriented.
Bow grip rests on thumb pad not webbing or palm crotch (…for lack of a better way to name palm crotch.)
Pointer finger and middle finger tips rest on bow back.
Ringer finger and pinky finger are closed to palm.

The way it was explained for finger placement is that this closes the synaptic loop in the hand to resist grabbing and subsequently torqueing the bow upon release. Since the two bottom fingers are closed…the hand doesnt close any further. Essentially the top two fingers hold the bow and the bottom two fingers thwart the nateual tendency to grip/grab the bow.

Also I was having problems with string slap and this grip form also rotates the forearm away from the string. My string slap went away.

Now… I found the Bob Lee bows to be heavier than what I prefer (but still were very nice bows) whereas the prescribed grip form still worked when I shot the BL. Im used to shooting lighter bows whereas the BLs are no heavier than my Darton wheelbow and this grip form has become a death sentence to my torquey kung fu death grip.

Good luck Mr51.

[RedYote]

When you’re at full draw apply pressure with your fingers, like DRT. Think of it like a c-clamp instead of choking a chicken. You shouldn’t be torquing the bow or string as easily that way. You will probably tighten your groups and may shoot a little quieter.