School me on solar or wind energy

[Mudslinger]

I looked at solar a couple of years ago and it was going to cost me more for solar than my electric bill. Guess we are lucky in what we pay for electricity!

[Preacher Man]

My take away was that if I had no maintenance costs, or any other hick ups, I might break even.

I have personal experience with panels impacting a roofs ability to function as intended. If I were to put in solar power, I wouldn't put panels on my house. They'd be on the ground in an open field.

The technology just isn't there yet for me.

[bbbuck]

Lots of people have lots of opinions on solar and wind. I can only share my experience and knowledge. I'll try to state only facts below:

Fact: There aren't any companies that are going to install a solar system cheap enough for a short-term payback. Period. Labor and markups will crush you.

Fact: Unless your power company supports true "Net Billing" it will be even harder to recoup your investment.

Fact: The sales pitches and numbers the installation/sales companies make to sell you are highly optimistic. You'll never get those numbers. Most are selling 5kW systems. It's not enough to offset the cost -- not even close.

I installed my OWN system and it took forever. I did everything including all the electrical work. When I started the process my provider was a net billing provider. This means they total up used minus generated and then netted out. If I used more, they pay me. If I use less, I pay for the balance. They didn't like this so now they charge me for every electron I use (including those I generate!) and any overage goes back to them where they pay me about 1/2 what I pay them for the same electron. This simple little stroke of the pen increased my payback time on my solar by about 40%!

I put in 8kW on the ground with micro inverters. Though the system can theoretically output about 7200 watts peak in a best-case scenario, I'll never see that. I peak about 6533 due to losses from heat, sun angle, dust, and every other little thing that induces loss. I average about 40kWh every day over the month and about 1.1-1.2mWh per month. Some days I produce very little because of cloud cover and some days I crush it. Amazingly enough the extreme heat noticeably cuts output through losses due to very hot equipment.

I angled my panels to peak spring and fall and be a little less than peak summer and winter so that I get an "all-around" best overall output based on NREL solar data. I'm fortunate as I could align the angle and direction on ground where you are fixed by your roof angle and direction. This could cut your output by half if it isn't ideal.

Bottom line is the only way you can make this work is get the panels in bulk from a wholesaler and install it yourself. If you have net-billing you can probably get your payback in less than 10 years. If you pay someone you will never get there with today's technology level at about 21% efficiency. About the time you break even, it will be time to replace the system in 20-25 years.

Bingo. I recently looked into this myself and you speak the truth.

[Greenheadless]

First thing I would do is solar hot water. Can reduce your hot water power usage to almost zero. And a typ electric tank heater is 20% of your electric bill on average. No batteries, it's a "passive" system and roi is about 5 years.

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If you have a traditional tank water heater, you can also add a time clock.

[txbowhunter08]

I knew I wouldn’t be able to go off grid, and I’ll have to check on my rate! I know there is a added charge from the blackouts from the snow storm! Where I live half the county is with one power company and the other is swepco! Our last last house being a lot older and on swepco bill was always reasonable! Then our new house being fully updated and everything energy efficient our bill is still 100 dollars more then what we ever paid on the last house! Our last billing cycle we were out of town for 10 days and it still wasn’t cheaper then our highest bill at the other house!

[Barney1971]

i know this is off subject, but have you thought about going to gas/propane appliances where you can? we live a good ways out in the sticks and we are running gas stove/oven, water heater, clothes dryer and furnace. i bought a 500 gal tank when we built house in 2009-- we top it off twice a year for $300-$500.
2400 sq ft house -- electric bill of course is high june-mid sept. maybe $350-$400 at highest. oct thru april it can be as low as $125-$200
just a suggestion, and i havent checked propane prices lately either.

[CentralTXHunter]

I knew I wouldn’t be able to go off grid, and I’ll have to check on my rate! I know there is a added charge from the blackouts from the snow storm! Where I live half the county is with one power company and the other is swepco! Our last last house being a lot older and on swepco bill was always reasonable! Then our new house being fully updated and everything energy efficient our bill is still 100 dollars more then what we ever paid on the last house! Our last billing cycle we were out of town for 10 days and it still wasn’t cheaper then our highest bill at the other house!

Two things you need to look at. I know you say this house is newer and energy efficient and all that, but you need to look at your actual usage on this house vs the old house and the energy rate you’re being charged. Energy rates are up significantly. NG was bouncing around historic lows for 6-7 years, now it’s trading at $9 and energy rates reflect that as the cost of natural gas directly affects the cost to generate power in this state.


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[RiverRat1]

Solar (without incentives) is a break even kind of thing (maybe).

We had looked at them for years, but the incentives weren't quite to the point where we could pull the trigger.

A couple years ago, we looked again and found that the incentives (in Illinois) were better and we would now only need to pay a bit more than 1/4 of the whole cost.

So we got solar panels and no regrets so far.

Total project cost was about $40,000. After all the rebates & everything, we're paying about $11,000 of that.

About the most important thing I learned through it all was this - Our solar panels are projected to make about $40,000 worth of electricity in their 30 year life span - and the cost was $40,000. With the rising cost of electricity, maybe we'll do even a little better than that.

But the bottom line is this - without the government subsidies, NOBODY is going to shell out $40k just to hopefully make $40k! Which leads right back to my 1st sentence.

I'm not positive, but I'm pretty sure the math for wind power doesn't work out any better.

But you paid out 11k hoping to recoup 11k. How much have you saved over the last two years since you got them? And did you pay off the 11k or is it through a loan?

This is the real life valuable data that needs to be shared. Please give specifics. Do you still pay electric or totally off grid now?

[doghouse]

You cannot buy anything to compete with your local energy company at this time. JMO

[BRUTE 23]

Have you seen energy prices? Oil, natural gas, every yhing is up. Why would you expect the cost of electricity to not go up? How is that the electric companies fault?

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[brokeno]

Never pay for themselves.

[Greenheadless]

Have you seen energy prices? Oil, natural gas, every yhing is up. Why would you expect the cost of electricity to not go up? How is that the electric companies fault?

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Funny how that works….. sabotage the energy commodity markets…….all of the sudden renewable/alternative energy sources look more favorable.


It’s almost like it was planned……..

[Walding1989]

Pay back on solar is terrible lol. Many other upgrades with better pay back.

[kyle1974]

Funny how that works….. sabotage the energy commodity markets…….all of the sudden renewable/alternative energy sources look more favorable.


It’s almost like it was planned……..

When you leave a billion dollars worth of military equipment in Afghanistan as a welcoming present for the Chinese so they can start mining lithium, yeah… almost like it was planned.

[tps7742]

Pay back on solar is terrible lol. Many other upgrades with better pay back.

This what I would think in my simple world. Especially after the technology in home upgrades these days. I really didn’t pay much attention until we had our last house we live in now with spray foam, led lighting, window technology etc. and our low electric bills.