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Old 06-14-2019, 07:05 AM   #1
Tony Pic
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Default AR forend question- Rails

I have built a bunch of AR lowers, but have never tinkered with the building of a upper. Always bought them assembled. I bought this upper https://www.midwayusa.com/product/46...ster-16-barrel
and would like to replace the fore end with a quad rail type longer than 7"( which is what the OEM one is). When I remove the handguard, there is a plate against the low profile gas block, that holds in the factory hand guard.

Do I have to remove that plate(gas block also) in order to install a longer fore end with rails?
Is there a 2pc drop in that goes over it all without having to disassemble the barrel nut and gas block?
Do all rails need to change the barrel nut for attachment?
Do I have to replace fore end with same size railed fore end to snap into that plate behind the gas block? In this case 7".

Thanks,
Want to get this to the range.

Last edited by Tony Pic; 06-14-2019 at 07:13 AM.
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Old 06-14-2019, 02:39 PM   #2
QuackHunter
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The majority of rails or forends use different barrel nuts. I havenít messed with that style but I know they have a sort of end cap on either side if Iím not mistaken. Youíll have to remove the gas block and tube in order to swap the barrel Nut and attach a new rail.


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Old 06-14-2019, 02:59 PM   #3
lungbuster1985
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There are some drop in rails that utilize the factory hand guard mounting plate and delta ring. You will be confined to a 7 inch length and it will not be free floating. Another option is to buy a free float rail that uses the standard barrel nut. You can then just dremmel off the plate and ring, slide the hand guard on and tighten the hardware. Be careful which one you buy, some rails that use standard barrel nuts still require you to take the barrel off and install the nut backwards to work. Any hand guard that has its own proprietary barrel nut/ mount system will require you to disassemble the upper. Itís not terribly hard to do. If you can build a lower, you can build an upper.
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Old 06-14-2019, 05:18 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lungbuster1985 View Post
There are some drop in rails that utilize the factory hand guard mounting plate and delta ring. You will be confined to a 7 inch length and it will not be free floating. Another option is to buy a free float rail that uses the standard barrel nut. You can then just dremmel off the plate and ring, slide the hand guard on and tighten the hardware. Be careful which one you buy, some rails that use standard barrel nuts still require you to take the barrel off and install the nut backwards to work. Any hand guard that has its own proprietary barrel nut/ mount system will require you to disassemble the upper. Itís not terribly hard to do. If you can build a lower, you can build an upper.

Thank you...this was the info I was looking for. I am limited to 7" if I leave on delta ring and plate. OK... It looks like I am going to have to buy a upper vise block and disassemble the upper. All of the fore ends I am seeing all use their own barrel nut. I would like a longer fore end than the OEM one. Thank you for the answers.
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Old 06-14-2019, 07:22 PM   #5
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This is what I am working with. Any other options or opinions welcomed.
KIMG0702 by Tony Pic, on Flickr
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Old 06-14-2019, 08:50 PM   #6
lungbuster1985
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If you donít want to take everything apart, look at the Troy alpha and bravo handguards. You will just have to take a dremmel to the delta ring and plate. Iím sure there are some YouTube videos on doing the swap without disassembling the upper. I would definitely go this route if I didnít already have all the tools to work on an upper. Troy has a good reputation.

Your gas block isnít pinned, so it really wouldnít be too big of a deal to take everything apart. I like my magpul bev block for working on uppers or lowers. Make sure you order a new crush washer for your flash hider. You will also need a torque wrench to get the barrel nut torqued to spec. Whatever rail you choose, make sure it comes with the barrel nut wrench, most of them do.
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Old 06-15-2019, 08:25 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lungbuster1985 View Post
If you donít want to take everything apart, look at the Troy alpha and bravo handguards. You will just have to take a dremmel to the delta ring and plate. Iím sure there are some YouTube videos on doing the swap without disassembling the upper. I would definitely go this route if I didnít already have all the tools to work on an upper. Troy has a good reputation.

Your gas block isnít pinned, so it really wouldnít be too big of a deal to take everything apart. I like my magpul bev block for working on uppers or lowers. Make sure you order a new crush washer for your flash hider. You will also need a torque wrench to get the barrel nut torqued to spec. Whatever rail you choose, make sure it comes with the barrel nut wrench, most of them do.
Great info. Thanks!
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Old 06-15-2019, 08:30 AM   #8
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post a pic of yur new handguard
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Old 06-15-2019, 08:39 AM   #9
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Quote:
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post a pic of yur new handguard
I will when I get it...I only paid $319 for the 450 Bushmaster upper and the handguards are looking like they will be 2/3 the price of the upper! Have to get a upper vise block also to turn off barrel nut. Think I am going in that direction. There are few things now I need to do before I get to the range.
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Old 06-15-2019, 04:45 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Pic View Post
I will when I get it...I only paid $319 for the 450 Bushmaster upper and the handguards are looking like they will be 2/3 the price of the upper! Have to get a upper vise block also to turn off barrel nut. Think I am going in that direction. There are few things now I need to do before I get to the range.
if it helps, I have an old AR15 steel magazine that I don't like, I use it in a vise and leave the upper on the lower. Works like a charm, if it starts wiggling I use the ole lady to hold her in place lol the only time its a pain is when youre torqueing the nut.
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Old 06-15-2019, 06:34 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dallascowboys View Post
if it helps, I have an old AR15 steel magazine that I don't like, I use it in a vise and leave the upper on the lower. Works like a charm, if it starts wiggling I use the ole lady to hold her in place lol the only time its a pain is when youre torqueing the nut.
Thank you appreciate the offer. But I have a lower receiver block that will hold the lower in a vice. It is not recommended to torque the upper with it being on the lower. All of that torsion will transfer to the lower and the hinge pins. I do not want my receiver out a spec even 1/10,000 of an inch. It makes sense to buy a upper block and have the right tools.
Thanks again.
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Old 06-17-2019, 06:43 PM   #12
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Wheeler engineering sells a good kit for building ARs. You'll need an upper reciever vice clamp and a barrel nut wrench to get the factory handguard off. 1. Remove the flash hider. 2. Back out the set screws on the gas block and remove it. The gas tube will be attached so just pull the block off toward the muzzle. 3. Remove the hand guard and plate. 4. With the upper in the vise block, remove the delta ring/barrel nut. 5. Install the new handguard and reassemble.
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Old 06-17-2019, 07:23 PM   #13
Tony Pic
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All done boys! I went digging around in my boxes of parts and found a fore end that I tried a thousand times to install on other guns and it would not fit on anything. Was thinking that it was a air soft part since I picked it up at a gun show. But nope...It fits! Had to do a little tapping with the nylon hammer. But when it hit that sweet spot in the Delta ring, it all fit perfect. Well, I went ahead anyway and ordered a upper vise kit for barrel removal next time I tackle this endeavor with a different forend than a drop in part. I have every other tool, but the upper vise block. Well, I have one now on its way. I would have really liked a free floater, but that would have required barrel disassembly ect.
Topped it with a Vortex Strikefire2 from Palmetto.
Now...to get it to the range. I have 250gr and 300 gr loads for it. If it kicks too bad I'll get a JP spring for the buffer and see if it helps. I hear the 450 Bushmaster is like a 20ga. slug If that is the case...No big deal. We will see.
Thanks everyone for the input!
KIMG0733 by Tony Pic, on Flickr
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Old 06-17-2019, 09:03 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Pic View Post
All done boys! I went digging around in my boxes of parts and found a fore end that I tried a thousand times to install on other guns and it would not fit on anything. Was thinking that it was a air soft part since I picked it up at a gun show. But nope...It fits! Had to do a little tapping with the nylon hammer. But when it hit that sweet spot in the Delta ring, it all fit perfect. Well, I went ahead anyway and ordered a upper vise kit for barrel removal next time I tackle this endeavor with a different forend than a drop in part. I have every other tool, but the upper vise block. Well, I have one now on its way. I would have really liked a free floater, but that would have required barrel disassembly ect.
Topped it with a Vortex Strikefire2 from Palmetto.
Now...to get it to the range. I have 250gr and 300 gr loads for it. If it kicks too bad I'll get a JP spring for the buffer and see if it helps. I hear the 450 Bushmaster is like a 20ga. slug If that is the case...No big deal. We will see.
Thanks everyone for the input!
KIMG0733 by Tony Pic, on Flickr

I bought one of these uppers when you posted the deal.
Very interested in how the Vortex holds up.
Also if you do go to the JP spring, please post up your findings on the recoil reduction.
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Old 06-18-2019, 05:20 AM   #15
Tony Pic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kbar View Post
I bought one of these uppers when you posted the deal.
Very interested in how the Vortex holds up.
Also if you do go to the JP spring, please post up your findings on the recoil reduction.
Will do!
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