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Old 09-04-2019, 09:44 AM   #101
Slickrick
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I would pay for the animals taken at the agreed price and only if I got them back in good condition and not a dime more. He did not deliver what he agreed to for a hunt. . I would talk to a lawyer and show him the agreement.
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Old 09-04-2019, 09:58 AM   #102
OldRiverRat
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don't pay and i'd slap him with a suit asap and i guarantee you will be able to come to an amicable solution rather quickly.
the negative social media will cause him more monetary damage than what you owe him and if he is too stupid to understand that then he shouldn't be in business anyway.
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Old 09-04-2019, 10:07 AM   #103
E.TX.BOWHUNTER
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If it were me and I have the signed contract he gave you, I would sue him for breach of contract plus a replacement trip at a superior top of the line place so you can experience better conditions, the ones you were promised, and shoot the animals you were promised and all on his dime now. You met in Texas and signed it in Texas. A jury can be pursueded. Pain and suffering from not getting your contracted experience and animals you harvested could add up to alot. But I'm not a lawyer.
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Old 09-04-2019, 10:14 AM   #104
Stolle
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Sorry to hear this. We had a great trip to Matsuri in July. I could see how easy one could pull this off, but hopefully with you telling your story this guy will not be scamming anyone again.
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Old 09-04-2019, 10:14 AM   #105
RiverRat1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E.TX.BOWHUNTER View Post
If it were me and I have the signed contract he gave you, I would sue him for breach of contract plus a replacement trip at a superior top of the line place so you can experience better conditions, the ones you were promised, and shoot the animals you were promised and all on his dime now. You met in Texas and signed it in Texas. A jury can be pursueded. Pain and suffering from not getting your contracted experience and animals you harvested could add up to alot. But I'm not a lawyer.
OP hasn't posted in 4-5 days. And he has avoided the bolded asked since day 1 of this thread. Makes one think!

Now I really want to hear the other side of the story.
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Old 09-04-2019, 10:18 AM   #106
TexKing
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First, full disclosure, I have known lammie for years, consider him a good friend, have referred him countless times, and have never heard an ill word about him, or Dare to Bowhunt. I just heard this for the first time and have not discussed it with him.

Second, I really hate this happened, and would be extremely ****** also...I do not know what I would do in your position, but not sure I would take advice from any of us! I was recently on a hunt in a different country, that had a slightly similar issue, and the two parties came to a compromise.

I would be hesitant to 'blast it out on social media,' because as you mentioned, thats not the way men handle a bad situation, and it also could work against you. If he was a scammer, which he certainly is not, you could always just suggest someone contact you before booking. Either way, I really hate that this happened, and I expect Lammie will do what's right.
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Old 09-04-2019, 10:31 AM   #107
Stolle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexKing View Post
First, full disclosure, I have known lammie for years, consider him a good friend, have referred him countless times, and have never heard an ill word about him, or Dare to Bowhunt. I just heard this for the first time and have not discussed it with him.

Second, I really hate this happened, and would be extremely ****** also...I do not know what I would do in your position, but not sure I would take advice from any of us! I was recently on a hunt in a different country, that had a slightly similar issue, and the two parties came to a compromise.

I would be hesitant to 'blast it out on social media,' because as you mentioned, thats not the way men handle a bad situation, and it also could work against you. If he was a scammer, which he certainly is not, you could always just suggest someone contact you before booking. Either way, I really hate that this happened, and I expect Lammie will do what's right.
I don't know the guy, but he sounds like a scammer to me. Allowing guests to show up to unfinished camp with no running water???? He should be ashamed of himself if this is true. Maybe you can talk with him and get him to tell his side of the story on here.
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Old 09-04-2019, 10:36 AM   #108
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You should sue him. If what you are saying happened I don't see why you wouldn't.
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Old 09-04-2019, 10:51 AM   #109
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An attorney would love to represent you.....the "outfitter" doesn't stand a chance if you have multiple people backing your side of the story.
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Old 09-04-2019, 11:12 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by TexKing View Post
First, full disclosure, I have known lammie for years, consider him a good friend, have referred him countless times, and have never heard an ill word about him, or Dare to Bowhunt. I just heard this for the first time and have not discussed it with him.

Second, I really hate this happened, and would be extremely ****** also...I do not know what I would do in your position, but not sure I would take advice from any of us! I was recently on a hunt in a different country, that had a slightly similar issue, and the two parties came to a compromise.

I would be hesitant to 'blast it out on social media,' because as you mentioned, thats not the way men handle a bad situation, and it also could work against you. If he was a scammer, which he certainly is not, you could always just suggest someone contact you before booking. Either way, I really hate that this happened, and I expect Lammie will do what's right.
I guess I will text Lammie and ask him if he cares to comment on this. It really doesn't seem like something he would do at all. Hopefully he will shed some light on this "CLAIM" against him. I still say he is a stand up guy and something is not right here.

The crazy part to me is that someone or anyone can post "I got a bad deal" on here and that's it 100% the guy that did it is a criminal. Tried, convicted, and hung all in 3 pages. I have never heard another bad word, report anything about Lammie or his operation. Don't the "scammers" typically get some negative feedback somewhere along the way? Y'all think ya got lucky and caught this "scammer" the first time he changed from good guy to world renowned criminal? Geez. Just because Lammie isn't an active TBH member and may not know or care to come on here and defend himself doesn't mean he is guilty.

Another thing that someone has already pointed out is who has ever left Africa without being paid in full? I sure didn't.
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Old 09-04-2019, 11:19 AM   #111
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Finally got bit. 6 months ago I put a post on here asking for outfitter recommendations for a SA bow hunt, several people recommended Dare To Bow Hunt so I figured that would be a good place to start. I did some more research on the outfit and couldn’t find a bad word about it so I contacted the owner of the outfit (Lammie). Lammie and I spoke on the phone for several minutes in regards to what animals I wanted to hunt and he informed me that he had two areas to hunt one of which being in Zululand and the other further north in Kimberly. Lammie felt strongly that the zululand location would be the one for us so that’s the one we booked. Pictures on the website and ones he sent of the lodging, property, and animals were beautiful and I couldn’t have been more happy at that time.

Fast forward to last month a couple weeks prior to us leaving and I get a call from Lammie wanting to meet up in person. This was convenient as he lives in Texas so we decided to meet in college station. Our hunting group and myself walk into the meeting with Lammie and he handed some paperwork out to each one of us outlining the hunt and what it would intel. I start reading the paperwork and notice that the hunt package is now for the Kimberly location. Obviously I thought he had just handed us the wrong paperwork so I stopped and brought that up. Lammie than proceeds to tell us that it would be better if we went to the Kimberly location as the animals are bigger and there are more options..... funny as it’s the exact opposite of what he told me in our original conversation when he sold me on the Zululand location. We hear his side of the story and run some numbers, for the animals we wanted to shoot it was going to nearly double in cost by going to the Kimberly location so we decided we would just rather stick to the original hunt that we paid for.

Immediately I could tell Lammie was put off by this and his attitude changed negative very quickly. We left the meeting and he sent me a text on the way home basically scolding me for wanting to go against his wishes and assured us that he was only trying to do what is best for us. At this point the price change alone didn’t make it an option as a couple of the guys going were on a tight budget.

Fast forward again, we step off the plane in Africa and a stranger meets us, he said he would be our PH and would be taking care of us for the week (red flags everywhere at this point) we go ahead and play along and hop in the car with him and ride to the location. Couple hours of talking to the PH and I knew he was a good guy, very nice and actually enjoyed his company more than Lammie’s.

We roll into the hunting property and I’m trying to pick his brain about the situation without him knowing what I was doing. Asking about the property size, animals, lodging etc. First thing he tells me is the size of the property, it’s less than 1/2 of what we booked in the original package(again red flags all over). Secondly are the animals, animals we had paid for in our package didn’t even exist in these ranches!! Not even an option to hunt them as they don’t have any! I’m extremely unhappy at this point as I have been lied to directly to my face several times. We roll into the lodge and I kid you not it is under construction, contractors setting trusses when we drive up. Our PH hops out and says here it is and points to two very small cabins down the hill a ways. These cabins are a far stretch from what was pictured on the website.




Trying to make the best out of a bad situation we play along not wanting something small like living quarters ruin our trip. At this point we are on our 3rd day without a shower as we flew for two days. I go into the room and turn on the water..... none. No water for the next two days as we wait for plumbers to fix the issues. Turns out we were the first people to stay in those cabins and they just finished them up hours prior to us driving up. Literally fresh paint on the walls. The lodge literally has no roof and is just open trusses, no kitchen to cook, washer or dryer, or WiFi as promised by lammie. (WiFi is a big deal to me as I have to be able to respond to business emails)

Trying to make the best of it we get our hunting stuff on and head to the blinds. On the way out to the blinds the PH spills the beans and tells me that Lammie SOLD his Zululand location last year!!!! Now it is all making sense and it’s becoming clear that we were intentionally lied to and sold something that no longer existed! A real FYRE fest situation. We hunt for a couple days and each kill a few animals, still unhappy with the situation, but doing our best to not let it ruin the experience. Our original hunt package stated that cull animal (female warthogs and impalas) could be shot at $75 each. Awesome, we are all shooting a bunch of them, about 4 days into the hunt our PH informs us that the cull animals are actually $160 in this area..... I express to him that lammie said they were $75 and he responds that he can’t do it for that price because those prices were for Lammie’s area.... again, another lie and frankly an issue he needs to take up with lammie. We get through the week and make it back to Texas.

I step off the plane in Austin and send lammie a text outlining the hunt and expressing my disappointment with him and his communication of the situation. Lammie responds with a final invoice for the animals, all the prices have changed from the original list. ***Now it’s important to understand that the lodging situation as well as the price increases would not have big deal had he just come out and told us about the actual situation “hey guys I sold that location so if y’all still wanna go there here is what that will look like and here is the new pricing for the animals” that is all he had to say and we would have been more than understanding of the situation. Unfortunately that’s not what happened. At this point I’m more ****** at the principle of the issues than the actual issues themselves. I send him a text and tell him that I would like to see the cull animals be priced as originally agreed upon and would also like him to think about what an acceptable discount for the lack of lodging would be. He reply’s and goes straight to lawyers.... in a nutshell he said If you don’t pay I’ll take you to court and you will never see your animals....

I’m dumbfounded at this point and reply trying to ease the tensions and assure him that I’m wanting to pay, but I don’t feel as if we should be paying full price. Again, he plays hard ball and throws the lawsuit out there. This goes back and forth for a day or so and we have finally reached a dead end road. He won’t budge and I refuse to be screwed over more than I already have by this man. I don’t want to get lawyers involved, just wanna handle it like men, unfortunately he isn’t giving me an option. Am I out of line here?
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Old 09-04-2019, 11:43 AM   #112
LennyWayne
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I just went to this FB site....is that you posing with the Warthog and suppressed rifle? If it is you, did you know that your picture is being displayed?
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Old 09-04-2019, 11:46 AM   #113
257
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Been there done that. I only hunt with Quagga safaris now, always exact on what you sign up for.
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Old 09-04-2019, 11:50 AM   #114
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Tell him to pound sand. Frame your pictures hand them on your walls, its the memory of the hunt more than the mounts.
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Old 09-04-2019, 12:03 PM   #115
SaintBlaise
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I would only pay for what you were promised, but not a dime until you receive the correct invoice. If you pay part of his inflated invoice, you may legally be accepting the bill as is.

I hope you blow this guy up on facebook.
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Old 09-04-2019, 12:04 PM   #116
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he needs a GOOD`OLE BOY visit.
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Old 09-04-2019, 12:04 PM   #117
RiverRat1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red-fin View Post
I guess I will text Lammie and ask him if he cares to comment on this. It really doesn't seem like something he would do at all. Hopefully he will shed some light on this "CLAIM" against him. I still say he is a stand up guy and something is not right here.

The crazy part to me is that someone or anyone can post "I got a bad deal" on here and that's it 100% the guy that did it is a criminal. Tried, convicted, and hung all in 3 pages. I have never heard another bad word, report anything about Lammie or his operation. Don't the "scammers" typically get some negative feedback somewhere along the way? Y'all think ya got lucky and caught this "scammer" the first time he changed from good guy to world renowned criminal? Geez. Just because Lammie isn't an active TBH member and may not know or care to come on here and defend himself doesn't mean he is guilty.

Another thing that someone has already pointed out is who has ever left Africa without being paid in full? I sure didn't.
I do not know the op or outfitter. But I noticed this also. And also noticed the person claiming the other is a fraud will not post the agreement. Super easy to prove who's right in this case.

But the guys who all assume the OP is correct in everything amaze me also.
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Old 09-04-2019, 12:37 PM   #118
Chief
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Hate to see everybody piling on ready to get the rope and hang a man when they have only heard one side of a story.....from somebody that probably donít even know....

As stated earlier, me and 2 other buddies went and hunted with Lammie for the first time last year and had an incredible experience and would have recommend his outfit to anybody.

Is it possible that when you met up with him to discuss the trip in Texas that he tried to let you know what was going on with the zululand hunting. Sounded like from what you had said that he tried to talk you into going to the Kimberly area for a better experience and better animals. I know that you said that that would have possibly put the hunt out of your budget. I can see it being easy for somebody that is very excited about going to Africa to hunt to put some blinders on and make compromises to make the trip happen.


Also for the people that had commented on not paying the full tab before leaving back to the states. We did the same thing. At the end of our hunt he had given us and invoice for the package that we hunted off of with the additional animals that we added and payed them once we got back to the states.




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Old 09-04-2019, 01:07 PM   #119
Hookset
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Negative. I wouldn't pay jack until I knew for sure that my animals were being taken care of properly and being shipped to me. See ya in court buddy and we will have the Judge decide what is owed and request that the Court order al animals be taken care of and shipped according to industry standard as a condition of any payment being rendered.

What Lawhunter said........
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Old 09-04-2019, 01:27 PM   #120
RR 314
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Originally Posted by TildenHunter View Post
An attorney would love to represent you.....the "outfitter" doesn't stand a chance if you have multiple people backing your side of the story.
Attorneys like cases with people in neck braces. Any representation in this matter would be on an hourly basis and there is no neck brace involved.
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Old 09-04-2019, 02:01 PM   #121
daretobowhunt
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Default Here I am. . . Lammie "villain and crook"

Here is my side on how this went:
I am not going to bore you with a lot of detail. I'll touch on the high points for you to decide who is lying here. Attached please see the package sold, the animals hunted and the invoice he refuses to pay.

Original lodge in Zululand was no longer an option to stay at but this was not due to the sell of the lodge. This was not knew news to the hunting party of 3 ( met them in College Station to explain this 30 days before the hunt). On this point, the 3rd hunter had no complaints, paid his animals and gave us a 5 star rating. (makes you think? and this is only the beginning).

I changed their hunt location (due to unforeseen circumstances) about 30 days before they were arriving to a camp that I knew had the same high standard that we run. They paid additional plane tickets ($220 each) to this area (later I ate that cost by paying their transport back to the Zululand area). 1 day later Mr Cody decided that I was trying to trick them out of a hunting package that I sold them and he insisted to hunt Zululand.

At this point, I explained to them (again) that I will not be using my original camp down there and that I will not be able to attend the hunt and they all seemed to understand, moving the hunt to next year or cancelling the hunt was something he did not want to entertain.

3 days in to the hunt I arrived in Zululand and heard no complaints (they all had my number with an open line to me) and I even guided 1 of the hunters on a couple of occasions.

4 days into the hunt, they had shot all their animals within the package and even continued shooting some extra animals. In total they shot 23 animals in 6 days not counting misses or opportunities not taken.

The lodge was adequate, laundry was done daily. There was a water issue (burst pipe) the first night and it was sorted out (that is just how it goes in Africa). Wifi was offered to them by the PH but Cody refused it and said it was not a big deal. On top of this, the PH also offered to drive them to his house to take a shower on the 1st night.

On the pricing of animals changing, I guess he is referring to me verbally saying that any culling is about $75 outside of your package. The specific ranch they hunted (4,000 acres) did not want any additional cull animals shot at $75 per animal (his charge was $125). So they were not charged extra for the cull animals that were already in their package.

As an outfitter/PH 90% of the time you don't own the animals you are hunting so if a client was told $75 for a cull was ok, and then it changed to $125 by the ranch owner there is nothing we can do about it. I guess just not hunt them which is what Cody did. Other people in his party did go ahead and shoot additional culls for that price.

The point I am trying to make here, is that if you are a liar it will be apparent. And I am going to attach the package they bought, photos, and his invoice. And I am not going to keep checking in here to keep replying. This all started off with me refusing to discount his 2 wounded animals. And then I was threatened that he has a call in to his lawyer. I replied and said I await his call.

They were so disgruntled with the hunt, the stay and the lodge that they tipped the PH $700, and the lodge staff $300. Go figure. . .
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Old 09-04-2019, 02:09 PM   #122
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Well folks..... This just got real interesting.

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Old 09-04-2019, 02:17 PM   #123
Cajun Blake
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in honor of Scooby-Doo Ruh Roh

as always, there are 2 sides to every pancake


based on the lynch mob mentality, I'm expected some of this

Last edited by Cajun Blake; 09-04-2019 at 02:19 PM.
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Old 09-04-2019, 02:19 PM   #124
trjones87
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great man once told me, its a mighty thin pancake if it doesnt have two sides
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Old 09-04-2019, 02:19 PM   #125
batmaninja
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Who has their animals ?
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Old 09-04-2019, 02:23 PM   #126
aclark0495
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always 3 sides to the story, his side, their side and the truth. This should get interesting.
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Old 09-04-2019, 02:24 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CodyWitt View Post
I send him a text and tell him that I would like to see the cull animals be priced as originally agreed upon and would also like him to think about what an acceptable discount for the lack of lodging would be. He replyís and goes straight to lawyers.... in a nutshell he said If you donít pay Iíll take you to court and you will never see your animals.... Iím dumbfounded at this point and reply trying to ease the tensions and assure him that Iím wanting to pay, but I donít feel as if we should be paying full price. Again, he plays hard ball and throws the lawsuit out there. This goes back and forth for a day or so and we have finally reached a dead end road. He wonít budge and I refuse to be screwed over more than I already have by this man. I donít want to get lawyers involved, just wanna handle it like men, unfortunately he isnít giving me an option. Am I out of line here?
Can we see the text exchange? TBH court is still in session.
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Old 09-04-2019, 02:28 PM   #128
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I hear you can get a great hunt at the independence ranch.
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Old 09-04-2019, 02:32 PM   #129
Ouch
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I'll be here the rest of the day.
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Old 09-04-2019, 02:33 PM   #130
trjones87
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so is the issue the $2,850 charges for the 'other' animals when they expected to pay 75/125 each?
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Old 09-04-2019, 02:35 PM   #131
gingib
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2 sides to every story...wow!!!

And a bunch of drama
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Old 09-04-2019, 02:38 PM   #132
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TBH court is still in session.
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Old 09-04-2019, 02:45 PM   #133
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I forgot to address his price change/increase after the hunt. Everybody is welcome to check out my website and match that to the invoice I gave him. One hunter in the group did have significant price change to his animals (aha, here we go) the price change was a decrease (sorry haters I disappointed you again).
2nd Nyala bull shot by accident went from $1800 to $750
World class warthog from $750 to $450
Bush buck from $1100 to $850

This happens when the hunter communicates during the hunt about pricing and we understand when a mistake is made and will happily address the issue. I would love to see the price increase that Mr Cody is referring to. I guess I "Dare" him to put it here.
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Old 09-04-2019, 02:45 PM   #134
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so is the issue the $2,850 charges for the 'other' animals when they expected to pay 75/125 each?
I think the "culls" are called out in the original package. Looks like extra "trophys" were added. Or that's the way I understand it.
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Old 09-04-2019, 02:48 PM   #135
rladner
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I guess I will text Lammie and ask him if he cares to comment on this. It really doesn't seem like something he would do at all. Hopefully he will shed some light on this "CLAIM" against him. I still say he is a stand up guy and something is not right here.

The crazy part to me is that someone or anyone can post "I got a bad deal" on here and that's it 100% the guy that did it is a criminal. Tried, convicted, and hung all in 3 pages. I have never heard another bad word, report anything about Lammie or his operation. Don't the "scammers" typically get some negative feedback somewhere along the way? Y'all think ya got lucky and caught this "scammer" the first time he changed from good guy to world renowned criminal? Geez. Just because Lammie isn't an active TBH member and may not know or care to come on here and defend himself doesn't mean he is guilty.

Another thing that someone has already pointed out is who has ever left Africa without being paid in full? I sure didn't.
I have, but I have a good outfitter and they trusted me to pay my balance when I returned state side. I've since been back 3 times.
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Old 09-04-2019, 02:57 PM   #136
brian215
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I'll be here the rest of the day.
x2
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Old 09-04-2019, 02:59 PM   #137
Hunter Dan
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I have, but I have a good outfitter and they trusted me to pay my balance when I returned state side. I've since been back 3 times.
This^^^^^

The point is if the OP has a contact he should pay the prices on the contract that he has. If no contract exists then prices are subject to change at any time and you pay the current prices. If you want the animals you pay the asking price and if you have a contract that has other prices I don't think any reasonable person would argue that.
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Old 09-04-2019, 03:13 PM   #138
rtjh
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Oh snap
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Old 09-04-2019, 03:26 PM   #139
BuckySWT
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Old 09-04-2019, 03:31 PM   #140
Mudslinger
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The plot thickens. I am watching this also!
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Old 09-04-2019, 03:45 PM   #141
be12hunt
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OP do you have any proof that contradicts what Lammie posted? His information all adds up, but it doesn’t add up with what you’re saying.
I’m not defending one way or another but he produced actual documents that validated his claims.
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Old 09-04-2019, 03:48 PM   #142
gingib
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All of this seems sketchy. The OP has some valid points(if true) that the Owner did not comment on.

Both seem to blame IMO, but I bet the OP will not post now since he has been called out on some lies
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Old 09-04-2019, 03:55 PM   #143
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At this point my lawyer has advised me to stay clear of the situation. Unfortunately I cannot post pictures... if someone would like to PM me their phone number I can send over via text screenshots outlining our convos and the contracts.... it will be clear from there. Lammie’s response post is par for his course. A complete lie. He never once mentioned anything to us about him selling the property or anything else being different from our original hunt package shown on his webpage. I will be putting this one to rest in court, and would love to show the TBH world how Lammie actually operates. As per my OP, I couldn’t find a bad word about the guy during my original research, unfortunately there is a first time for everything.
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Old 09-04-2019, 03:56 PM   #144
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Sorry for the delay in response, I don’t check this regularly.
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Old 09-04-2019, 03:58 PM   #145
darralld
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Don't think he's coming back to answer...LOL
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Old 09-04-2019, 04:00 PM   #146
CodyWitt
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^^im right here.
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Old 09-04-2019, 04:04 PM   #147
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And as for the 3rd hunter, they are far from happy, but decided to pay the extra money and not complain about the whole situation in fear of them not getting their animals back... completely their choice. Not how myself and the other guy are choosing to handle it.
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Old 09-04-2019, 04:06 PM   #148
RR 314
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Originally Posted by CodyWitt View Post
At this point my lawyer has advised me to stay clear of the situation. Unfortunately I cannot post pictures... if someone would like to PM me their phone number I can send over via text screenshots outlining our convos and the contracts.... it will be clear from there. Lammieís response post is par for his course. A complete lie. He never once mentioned anything to us about him selling the property or anything else being different from our original hunt package shown on his webpage. I will be putting this one to rest in court, and would love to show the TBH world how Lammie actually operates. As per my OP, I couldnít find a bad word about the guy during my original research, unfortunately there is a first time for everything.
Did your lawyer tell you not to post information but freely disseminate to virtual strangers? If so, I would look for a new lawyer.
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Old 09-04-2019, 04:06 PM   #149
solocam_aggie
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Lol, love getting both sides of the story. Discrepancies on both sides.

One thing I don't agree with is the culls. If I'm running hunts and advertising a price on culls and the LO changes the price, I'm eating that and sticking to my word.

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Old 09-04-2019, 04:20 PM   #150
Cajun Blake
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Did your lawyer tell you not to post information but freely disseminate to virtual strangers? If so, I would look for a new lawyer.
He's right, you know !
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