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Old 01-09-2019, 02:47 PM   #101
sir shovelhands
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Originally Posted by batmaninja View Post
You are answering your own question.

Less jobs + growing population = Less opportunities.
Not quite what I said. I said there are fewer good blue collar jobs available, not fewer jobs in general. Currently we have plenty of jobs, and low unemployment. Opportunity is not only measured by the availability of jobs, but of the wages those jobs pay.

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From your article-

Holding worker salaries as low as possible is a key to securing short-term quarterly profits, executive bonuses and rising share prices. Seemingly unnoticed by the world’s leading economists, shareholder value is not only the gospel of the global economy. It’s also the root cause of stagnant worker salaries.
An interesting analysis from the article, don't you think?
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Old 01-09-2019, 03:16 PM   #102
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I said there are fewer good blue collar jobs available, not fewer jobs in general.
I agree that there are fewer blue collar jobs.

But I would argue there are fewer jobs in general, for the same reason. Everything is getting automated from McDonalds to farming. The more menial your job is, the easier you will be to replace. Its not like the blue collar jobs are being replaced by white collar or minimum wage jobs, for a net gain. This is like high school macro economics, sorry I dont think the article was that informative.

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Offshoring of manufacturing and automation are not leaving many good blue collar jobs.
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Old 01-09-2019, 10:24 PM   #103
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You can blabble all day long. Instead just go outside and look at the facts.
All kids have access to equal education (actually minorities have better access). In today's world it's 100% up to the individual person to chose where they want to be.

You ever consider the "likelihoods" you mention are because certain races keep themselves down? Oh forbid that be talked about!
You ever consider that you might walk out on a totally different set of “facts” depending on which front door you step out of?
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Old 01-09-2019, 10:35 PM   #104
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You ever consider that you might walk out on a totally different set of “facts” depending on which front door you step out of?
You ever consider that, depending on which front door you step out of, that a totally different set of excuses are used to deny the facts?
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Old 01-09-2019, 10:36 PM   #105
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Our taxes are certainly out of control, but I would rather be stuck paying state tax than property tax.

I could not afford what I have if I was still in Texas. Cost of living, coupled with property taxes wouldn’t work out for me, even with the better income I would likely earn down there.
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Old 01-09-2019, 10:54 PM   #106
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You ever consider that, depending on which front door you step out of, that a totally different set of excuses are used to deny the facts?
Well, the excuses are probably pretty similar, but the opportunities are not. That’s the problem.

The opportunities in Wise county, Texas, part of the metro area of a wealthy megacity, are FAR different than they are where I am (Fulton County Ar). That’s a fact.

The educational and job opportunities between the two are night and day for someone starting with few resources or direction, which is a handicap that far too many children face.

I used to be a hardcore right winger, “it’s their fault” person, too. That was before I lived a little life and worked on growing my faith. I started to see that a lot of folks where I grew up just didn’t have the same chances I that I had. I’m trying to give back what I can to help break a small piece of that cycle.

Last edited by Razrbk89; 01-09-2019 at 10:55 PM. Reason: Horrible phone typing
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Old 01-09-2019, 11:16 PM   #107
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Well, the excuses are probably pretty similar, but the opportunities are not. That’s the problem.

The opportunities in Wise county, Texas, part of the metro area of a wealthy megacity, are FAR different than they are where I am (Fulton County Ar). That’s a fact.

The educational and job opportunities between the two are night and day for someone starting with few resources or direction, which is a handicap that far too many children face.

I used to be a hardcore right winger, “it’s their fault” person, too. That was before I lived a little life and worked on growing my faith. I started to see that a lot of folks where I grew up just didn’t have the same chances I that I had. I’m trying to give back what I can to help break a small piece of that cycle.
Obviously, you are assuming I’m from Wise county. You know what they say about assumptions, right?

As far as being a “right winger” before you lived a little life, well, you have that one backwards too. The saying is “If you are not a Liberal at 25, then you have no heart. If you are not a Conservative at 35, then you have no brain.”

I’m from deep SE Texas. I’ve heard all the excuses.
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Old 01-09-2019, 11:26 PM   #108
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Obviously, you are assuming I’m from Wise county. You know what they say about assumptions, right?

As far as being a “right winger” before you lived a little life, well, you have that one backwards too. The saying is “If you are not a Liberal at 25, then you have no heart. If you are not a Conservative at 35, then you have no brain.”

I’m from deep SE Texas. I’ve heard all the excuses.
I was actually just reading. Your location says Wise county.

You’re right, you win. I concede, I have no brain. Deep SE Texas, an hour or so from another megacity with a great economy... Exactly like where I’m coming from, I sure apologize for the misunderstanding.
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Old 01-09-2019, 11:40 PM   #109
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I was actually just reading. Your location says Wise county.

You’re right, you win. I concede, I have no brain. Deep SE Texas, an hour or so from another megacity with a great economy... Exactly like where I’m coming from, I sure apologize for the misunderstanding.
Some of the most impoverished and educationally challenged people come from the intercity. Your point is moot.
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Old 01-10-2019, 08:42 AM   #110
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I was actually just reading. Your location says Wise county.

You’re right, you win. I concede, I have no brain. Deep SE Texas, an hour or so from another megacity with a great economy... Exactly like where I’m coming from, I sure apologize for the misunderstanding.
So what are you non-even opportunity people suggesting is done to fix this problem?
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Old 01-10-2019, 09:46 AM   #111
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I could not afford what I have if I was still in Texas. Cost of living, coupled with property taxes wouldn’t work out for me, even with the better income I would likely earn down there.
So you dont pay your fair share of taxes, but you want everyone else to?
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Old 01-10-2019, 10:02 AM   #112
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Okay. So we have to pay them. i'll concede that. The way it is ran and the way taxes are levied is nothing short of a scam.
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Old 01-10-2019, 10:41 AM   #113
Razrbk89
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So what are you non-even opportunity people suggesting is done to fix this problem?

It’s not a problem that is going to be fixed. There will always be winners and losers, poor and rich. I just know that the first step in trying to make things better is understanding the big picture & realizing that not everyone has equal opportunities. It would help our country immensely to bust as many people as we can out of poverty, but you’ll obviously never get them all. Doesn’t work that way.

It’s just easy to slap the lazy label on folks that we feel underachieve, are in poverty, etc. I agree with you that in MANY cases, the lazy part is true, but certainly not all (or probably even most).
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Old 01-10-2019, 10:42 AM   #114
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So you dont pay your fair share of taxes, but you want everyone else to?
Huh??
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Old 01-10-2019, 11:01 AM   #115
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I could not afford what I have if I was still in Texas.
I read this as, you moved out of state so that you could have more stuff. IE pay less in taxes.

Just look at how many kids/parents dont take advantage of a free education. If people wont help themselves, you cant help them.
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Old 01-10-2019, 11:17 AM   #116
sir shovelhands
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So what are you non-even opportunity people suggesting is done to fix this problem?

Three things that would go hand-in-hand:

-Education reform, which both parties seem apathetic about. Not only has the public education we receive been declining for decades, it's become more and more focused on preparing people for college, which is idiotic given that fewer than 50% will get a 4 year degree.
-Increased focus on STEM education.
-Phasing out H1-B visas. Not only do these take jobs Americans could be filling, they are used to suppress wages.
-Implementing an apprenticeship system a la Germany, which reduces reliance on 4+ year degrees. There's been some effort to get this started, but it's slow moving.


Lastly:
-Bringing manufacturing back would be nice, but it's probably a pipe dream. While Trump is rightfully trying to even the playing field with foreign powers to make this happen, it's a hell of a mountain to climb.

Now I don't claim any of these would be a cure-all for inequality (nor do I think one exists, as there will always be inequality), or that there aren't better ways, but it's better than nothing.
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