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Old 11-28-2018, 09:08 AM   #51
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One exception that I've seen when traveling abroad is that many Japanese prefer to buy Japanese brands that are assembled in the U.S. (Toyotas, etc.) They tend to be higher quality with less problems...or at least that's what a lot of Japanese folks told me when I was there.
Same goes for China as well. Hear it all the time over there. Even they understand most of their stuff is junk. Until recently unless you lived in a big city there with a mall American made was hard to find. But now they all just purchase the products from Amazon and TaoBoa(Chinese Amazon).
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Old 11-28-2018, 09:24 AM   #52
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I think the Unions have a place, the role should just be shifted to cut into the disparity between the CEO / Executive handouts and the normal everyday workers.

How these executive members keep gouging their companies while others within the same company suffer is insane.
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Old 11-28-2018, 09:41 AM   #53
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Expansion into China's economy doesn't mix well with China trade wars. Yes Trump will be blamed but it takes two to tango. Increased raw material prices and decreased Chinese demands for ag are putting the pinch to a lot of businesses right now and mark my words, we are headed for another slowdown...just in time for the next election cycle which gives both parties an opportunity to point fingers at each other. The auto bailouts & too big to fail was/is one of the biggest scams on the American taxpayer I've ever seen.
Spot on.
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Old 11-28-2018, 10:05 AM   #54
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US automakers have two problems...poor quality, and high prices. And the main contributor to those two problems over the last 30 years BY FAR....is the United Autoworkers UNION. That's a fact, folks!


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Lol yep. Very poor product at a high price.

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Old 11-28-2018, 10:22 AM   #55
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The Trucks and SUVs are not poor products
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Old 11-28-2018, 10:37 AM   #56
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We (taxpayers) lost 11.2B dollars on the GM bailout! GM used the money to invest in expansion in Chinaís economy, not Americaís. The government took a 61% share in GM upon the bailout then pushed GM to make small electric cars nobody wants. Think Chevy Volt/Bolt
Just further proof that big government sucks at any form of management.
And somehow these plant closures will be Trumps fault.
Thanks Bush
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Old 11-28-2018, 10:41 AM   #57
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“I got to get inside a brand-new Chevy Volt fresh off the line,” Obama announced to a cheering crowd of United Auto Workers activists. “Even though Secret Service wouldn’t let me drive it. But I liked sitting in it. It was nice. I’ll bet it drives real good. And five years from now when I’m not president anymore, I’ll buy one and drive it myself.”

Now it looks like Obama will not get his chance to make good on the promise. General Motors announced Monday that it would cease production of the hybrid electric plug-in Volt and its gas-powered sister car the Cruze.......

The Volt and the Cruze were two of the signature achievements of the partnership between the Obama administration and General Motors following the auto-industry bailout. Although the Volt was long-planned by GM executives, it received a lot of support from the administration. Obama described the Cruze as “the car of the future.”.......

The failure of both the Volt and the Cruze is instructive. The Volt was a very high-priced car that was heavily subsidized by government policies, both federal and state, favoring electric vehicles. Many thought its high-price tag doomed it, especially since the gas-powered Cruze was a very similar car at a lower price point. But neither achieved the expected sales. These were cars Americans did not want.


What a dunce, about as successful as Solyendra !
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Old 11-28-2018, 11:16 AM   #58
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Thanks Bush
x2
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Old 11-28-2018, 11:31 AM   #59
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The Trucks and SUVs are not poor products


You are right, still superior to anything else out there.


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Old 11-28-2018, 11:35 AM   #60
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I was bummed that they aren't going to make the Impala anymore. Those are dern nice cars. And Ford isn't going to make cars anymore so where does that leave me?? SOL!
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Old 11-28-2018, 12:43 PM   #61
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... so where does that leave me??
right here?
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Old 11-28-2018, 01:51 PM   #62
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right here?
Just walked back to my truck and a guy getting out of his Smart Car parked beside me. He was admiring my truck and told me that he is a disabled vet. and cannot drive a truck anymore due to injuries. I thanked him for his service and explained to him that my father-in-laws Christmas tree farm, which I just returned from opening weekend, gives out trees for current and former military, police, fire etc.
He began to cry and thanked me for sharing the story.
Moral I guess is don't judge the book by the cover. Heck I thought the guy was gonna scold me for such a big truck, in front of Whole Foods to boot.
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Old 11-28-2018, 02:35 PM   #63
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x2
X3
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Old 11-28-2018, 05:26 PM   #64
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Moral I guess is don't judge the book by the cover.
If that's the same as stereotyping.....then I do it all day every day.
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Old 11-28-2018, 07:57 PM   #65
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I don't know, unless they put that motor from the CTS-V in the suburban sized Caddy.

I have been in a Caddy in the last year, and it didn't look anything like a Malibu, but my pickup has ballsack coolers now, so...what do I know.


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For that amount of money you can get a supercharged Range Rover that will outrun it.
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Old 11-29-2018, 09:57 AM   #66
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For that amount of money you can get a supercharged Range Rover that will outrun it.
Until the Range Rover quits running.
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Old 11-29-2018, 10:18 AM   #67
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Until the Range Rover quits running.
That's the truth - then it is as expensive to fix as it is replace.
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Old 11-29-2018, 10:31 AM   #68
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If that's the same as stereotyping.....then I do it all day every day.


I call it "profiling".


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Old 11-29-2018, 10:44 AM   #69
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If it wasn't for EPA mandated overall MPGs there wouldn't be all these unsellable cars....
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Old 11-29-2018, 11:37 AM   #70
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If it wasn't for EPA mandated overall MPGs there wouldn't be all these unsellable cars....
Thatís kinda what I was thinking. If the government wasnít forcing manufacturers into a minimum, and increasing, overall MPG average for the fleet, I doubt many manufacturers would be pushing hybrid and electric cars so hard. Itís just not feasible, and manufacturers are having to do this instead of focusing on profitable and reliable models they have been making for decades
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Old 11-29-2018, 11:38 AM   #71
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Unions busting them. Plus crappy product

This.. I listened to a talk show host talk about this earlier (Mike Slater). Talked about North vs South plants (union vs non union) and said although this sucks for some people, with chevy moving production of these eco cars to China it means they will be selling in china. These cars will likely not see the US market. Now if they go to Mexico, that is a big issue!
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Old 11-29-2018, 12:04 PM   #72
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Thatís kinda what I was thinking. If the government wasnít forcing manufacturers into a minimum, and increasing, overall MPG average for the fleet, I doubt many manufacturers would be pushing hybrid and electric cars so hard. Itís just not feasible, and manufacturers are having to do this instead of focusing on profitable and reliable models they have been making for decades
Are all manufacturers struggling to make economic mpg compliant cars that sell?

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Old 11-29-2018, 04:00 PM   #73
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Thatís kinda what I was thinking. If the government wasnít forcing manufacturers into a minimum, and increasing, overall MPG average for the fleet, I doubt many manufacturers would be pushing hybrid and electric cars so hard. Itís just not feasible, and manufacturers are having to do this instead of focusing on profitable and reliable models they have been making for decades
Yeah if we didn't have to try to ensure cleaner air for our great grandkids we could be making twice the profit we are now!
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Old 11-29-2018, 07:33 PM   #74
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That's the truth - then it is as expensive to fix as it is replace.
Was talking with a Dr buddy today who has plenty of jack to get & or fix any flavor & he turned his nose at the larger top shelf / High HP Rover SUV for this very reason...gonna go with toyota.
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Old 11-29-2018, 07:38 PM   #75
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That's the truth - then it is as expensive to fix as it is replace.
That's why you buy the extended warranty and get rid of it when that is gone.
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Old 11-29-2018, 07:47 PM   #76
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Yes sir. Miss my old 1970 C20 with 350/350 four bolt, large capacity radiator and 4:10 positrac, 4 spd granny. That thing would pull a mountain. Only lasted for 252K miles. I did have to replace a water pump and alternator and shocks one time It actually got decent gas mileage for a 4 barrel carb.


I hate to tell ya but modern trucks will way outpull that truck. I mean by a LOT. And get better mileage and have more comfort.

Itís ok to lust for the old days but to say vehicles were better back then just isnít true.


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Old 11-29-2018, 08:19 PM   #77
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That's the truth - then it is as expensive to fix as it is replace.
Drive one first and talk to someone that actually owns one. My wifeís has seen the shop once and it was for a nail in the tire. Itís an absolute beast.
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Old 11-30-2018, 07:41 AM   #78
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Drive one first and talk to someone that actually owns one. My wifeís has seen the shop once and it was for a nail in the tire. Itís an absolute beast.
I've owned and driven 3. Great service even. Doesn't change what I've said.
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Old 11-30-2018, 09:06 AM   #79
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I've owned and driven 3. Great service even. Doesn't change what I've said.
So you've had to drop major coin on repairs for your Range Rovers? My family hasnt dropped one cent on repairs for ours. Once a year maintence is it. We've had 3 as well. The 2011 is out of warranty so Im rolling the dice at this point but with just 50K miles it hasnt given me a reason to think it is going to be a problem.
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Old 11-30-2018, 09:15 AM   #80
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So you've had to drop major coin on repairs for your Range Rovers? My family hasnt dropped one cent on repairs for ours. Once a year maintence is it. We've had 3 as well. The 2011 is out of warranty so Im rolling the dice at this point but with just 50K miles it hasnt given me a reason to think it is going to be a problem.
2 of the 3 required small repairs that led to major dollars. The other was a quicker flip.
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Old 11-30-2018, 09:20 AM   #81
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2 of the 3 required small repairs that led to major dollars. The other was a quicker flip.
So out of warranty?
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Old 11-30-2018, 09:51 AM   #82
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So out of warranty?
Bought all 3 at auction. All under 35k miles.
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Old 12-03-2018, 01:26 PM   #83
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https://www.marketwatch.com/story/fo...of2&yptr=yahoo

This is not a good trend.
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Old 12-03-2018, 05:18 PM   #84
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why do they have to do this stuff right before Christmas?
Could they not wait until middle of January?

Grinches!
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Old 12-09-2018, 08:09 PM   #85
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A Japanese company (Toyota) and an American company (General Motors) decided to have a canoe race on the Penobscot River. Both teams practiced long and hard to reach their peak performance before the race. On the big day, the Japanese won by a mile .
The Americans, very discouraged and depressed, decided to investigate the reason for the crushing defeat. A management team made up of senior management was formed to investigate and recommend appropriate action. Their conclusion was the Japanese had 8 people paddling and 1 person steering, while the American team had 7 people steering and 2 people paddling.

Feeling a deeper study was in order, American management hired a consulting company and paid them a large amount of money for a second opinion. They advised, of course, that too many people were steering the boat, while not enough people were paddling.

Not sure of how to utilize that information, but wanting to prevent another loss to the Japanese, the paddling team's management structure was totally reorganized to 4 steering supervisors, 2 area steering superintendents and 1 assistant superintendent steering manager.

They also implemented a new performance system that would give the 2 people paddling the boat greater incentive to work harder . It was called the 'Rowing Team Quality First Program, with meetings, dinners and free pens for the paddlers. There was discussion of getting new paddles, canoes and other equipment, extra vacation days for practices and bonuses. The pension program was trimmed to 'equal the competition' and some of the resultant savings were channeled into morale boosting programs and teamwork posters. The next year the Japanese won by two miles.

Humiliated, the American management laid off one paddler, halted development of a new canoe , sold all the paddles, and cancelled all capital investments for new equipment. The money saved was distributed to the Senior Executives as bonuses.

The next year, try as he might, the lone designated paddler was unable to even finish the race (having no paddles), so he was laid off for unacceptable performance, all canoe equipment was sold and the next year's racing team was out-sourced to India.

Sadly, THE END.

Here's something else to think about:

GM has spent the last thirty years moving its factories out of the US claiming they can't make money paying American wages.

TOYOTA has spent the last thirty years building more than a dozen plants inside the US.

The last quarter's results:

TOYOTA makes 4 billion in profits while GM racks up 9 billion in losses.

GM folks are still scratching their heads, and collecting bonuses....

IF THIS WEREN'T SO TRUE IT MIGHT BE FUNNY.
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Old 12-10-2018, 10:08 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumper View Post
A Japanese company (Toyota) and an American company (General Motors) decided to have a canoe race on the Penobscot River. Both teams practiced long and hard to reach their peak performance before the race. On the big day, the Japanese won by a mile .
The Americans, very discouraged and depressed, decided to investigate the reason for the crushing defeat. A management team made up of senior management was formed to investigate and recommend appropriate action. Their conclusion was the Japanese had 8 people paddling and 1 person steering, while the American team had 7 people steering and 2 people paddling.

Feeling a deeper study was in order, American management hired a consulting company and paid them a large amount of money for a second opinion. They advised, of course, that too many people were steering the boat, while not enough people were paddling.

Not sure of how to utilize that information, but wanting to prevent another loss to the Japanese, the paddling team's management structure was totally reorganized to 4 steering supervisors, 2 area steering superintendents and 1 assistant superintendent steering manager.

They also implemented a new performance system that would give the 2 people paddling the boat greater incentive to work harder . It was called the 'Rowing Team Quality First Program, with meetings, dinners and free pens for the paddlers. There was discussion of getting new paddles, canoes and other equipment, extra vacation days for practices and bonuses. The pension program was trimmed to 'equal the competition' and some of the resultant savings were channeled into morale boosting programs and teamwork posters. The next year the Japanese won by two miles.

Humiliated, the American management laid off one paddler, halted development of a new canoe , sold all the paddles, and cancelled all capital investments for new equipment. The money saved was distributed to the Senior Executives as bonuses.

The next year, try as he might, the lone designated paddler was unable to even finish the race (having no paddles), so he was laid off for unacceptable performance, all canoe equipment was sold and the next year's racing team was out-sourced to India.

Sadly, THE END.

Here's something else to think about:

GM has spent the last thirty years moving its factories out of the US claiming they can't make money paying American wages.

TOYOTA has spent the last thirty years building more than a dozen plants inside the US.

The last quarter's results:

TOYOTA makes 4 billion in profits while GM racks up 9 billion in losses.

GM folks are still scratching their heads, and collecting bonuses....

IF THIS WEREN'T SO TRUE IT MIGHT BE FUNNY.
Well,...ÖÖ..pretty much!
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Old 12-10-2018, 11:31 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumper View Post
A Japanese company (Toyota) and an American company (General Motors) decided to have a canoe race on the Penobscot River. Both teams practiced long and hard to reach their peak performance before the race. On the big day, the Japanese won by a mile .
The Americans, very discouraged and depressed, decided to investigate the reason for the crushing defeat. A management team made up of senior management was formed to investigate and recommend appropriate action. Their conclusion was the Japanese had 8 people paddling and 1 person steering, while the American team had 7 people steering and 2 people paddling.

Feeling a deeper study was in order, American management hired a consulting company and paid them a large amount of money for a second opinion. They advised, of course, that too many people were steering the boat, while not enough people were paddling.

Not sure of how to utilize that information, but wanting to prevent another loss to the Japanese, the paddling team's management structure was totally reorganized to 4 steering supervisors, 2 area steering superintendents and 1 assistant superintendent steering manager.

They also implemented a new performance system that would give the 2 people paddling the boat greater incentive to work harder . It was called the 'Rowing Team Quality First Program, with meetings, dinners and free pens for the paddlers. There was discussion of getting new paddles, canoes and other equipment, extra vacation days for practices and bonuses. The pension program was trimmed to 'equal the competition' and some of the resultant savings were channeled into morale boosting programs and teamwork posters. The next year the Japanese won by two miles.

Humiliated, the American management laid off one paddler, halted development of a new canoe , sold all the paddles, and cancelled all capital investments for new equipment. The money saved was distributed to the Senior Executives as bonuses.

The next year, try as he might, the lone designated paddler was unable to even finish the race (having no paddles), so he was laid off for unacceptable performance, all canoe equipment was sold and the next year's racing team was out-sourced to India.

Sadly, THE END.

Here's something else to think about:

GM has spent the last thirty years moving its factories out of the US claiming they can't make money paying American wages.

TOYOTA has spent the last thirty years building more than a dozen plants inside the US.

The last quarter's results:

TOYOTA makes 4 billion in profits while GM racks up 9 billion in losses.

GM folks are still scratching their heads, and collecting bonuses....

IF THIS WEREN'T SO TRUE IT MIGHT BE FUNNY.
Yessir! And the same sort of thing has happened to American Airlines and a few other airlines. All chiefs and no indians.
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Old 12-10-2018, 11:42 AM   #88
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Let GM fail. No more bonuses.
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Old 12-11-2018, 07:38 AM   #89
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Let GM fail. No more bonuses.
Completely agree.
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Old 12-18-2018, 12:59 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by xman59 View Post
junk product, over priced, a lot!
cars that are to small to use for anything,,,, dang motorcycles are as big as some of the cars...

quit shafting people on warranty repairs,,
no body really wants an electric car,, there just trying to make you think you do ( city slicker, and sheeple) fall for that crap.....

many foreign car makers make a better car, sell it for less and back it up better,,, and chevy already has massive problems with electronic parts now,,, the last thing they need to do is make electric cars!!!!
I put 310k on a 2000 cavalier, 114k on a 2012 sonic and 100k and counting on a 2015 sonic. Probably not a lot of us but there are some that want the small commuters and ive had very good luck with GM products. always have. It sucks and ill probably go foreign on my next one
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Old 12-18-2018, 02:58 PM   #91
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I put 310k on a 2000 cavalier, 114k on a 2012 sonic and 100k and counting on a 2015 sonic. Probably not a lot of us but there are some that want the small commuters and ive had very good luck with GM products. always have. It sucks and ill probably go foreign on my next one
Agreed there is definitely a need for the smaller cars to get some from point A-B and back. Ours is a Dodge Neon with about 150,000 on it I believe. In my opinion it would be a bad decision to not have one of these available in your assortment as an large automaker.
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