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Old 08-13-2019, 10:17 PM   #451
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Not all the sacks were on Dak, but way too many were. The guy just doesnít see the field and hangs onto the ball way too long with open guys.

The only way weíre going to see Zekes value is for him to just not be there. This Ďone of the greatest offensive line of all timeí talk is stuff from 3 years ago. There have been weaknessís in that line the last couple of years.


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Last year they didnít have the best center in football, and Connor Williams was a rookie, out of position, and too small. The year before Tyron Smith was out a bunch (at the same time Zeke was out for being an idiot).

It will be interesting to see how different it looks this year....especially if Zeke holds out for 3 or 5 games.


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Old 08-13-2019, 10:20 PM   #452
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Speaking of great lines I just watched some of that Great Wall of Dallas documentary again. Those guys were dominant and Erik Williams was a bad dude.


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Old 08-13-2019, 10:20 PM   #453
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Letís see who holds first... 3 guys wanting to be market setters, and an owner group that says they wonít do business that way...


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Thatís gonna be the most interesting part...who blinks first..

And who really has the nuts when that pie starts getting smaller. Then weíll find out who wants to win and who just wants to get payed.


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Old 08-13-2019, 10:48 PM   #454
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Thatís gonna be the most interesting part...who blinks first..

And who really has the nuts when that pie starts getting smaller. Then weíll find out who wants to win and who just wants to get payed.


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It will be interesting to see for sure the fan base, and the football world collectively seem to as a majority agree dak is not worth that amount 30mil an beyond. Curious if this will creep into daks camp, and maybe heíd rather make a deal than continue to get grilled.


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Old 08-14-2019, 07:46 AM   #455
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Originally Posted by Dale Moser View Post
Thatís gonna be the most interesting part...who blinks first..

And who really has the nuts when that pie starts getting smaller. Then weíll find out who wants to win and who just wants to get payed.


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I cannot see Zeke holding out of any games, he will be the loser if he does, I do not see Dak walking out because a true leader of a team would not leave everyone high and dry, I think Cooper has the most leverage of them all, they gave a number 1 for him and they obviously really need him.
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Old 08-14-2019, 07:55 AM   #456
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Speaking of great lines I just watched some of that Great Wall of Dallas documentary again. Those guys were dominant and Erik Williams was a bad dude.


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In his prime, maybe the most savage offensive lineman there's ever been.
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Old 08-14-2019, 06:18 PM   #457
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I haven't kept up with the Boys, so help me out here.
Zeke has one more year on his contract, but is holding out for more money??
So, if he keeps up his holdout when season starts, does he still gets payed?
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Old 08-14-2019, 06:35 PM   #458
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I hope Dak sees the field better, hits his targets easier and gets rid of the ball quicker. If that is the case this season after getting a coach, maybe he will be worth 30M+. Right now, I don't see paying him any more than the 30 they already offered.
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Old 08-14-2019, 06:44 PM   #459
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I haven't kept up with the Boys, so help me out here.

Zeke has one more year on his contract, but is holding out for more money??

So, if he keeps up his holdout when season starts, does he still gets payed?


2 years left, and no he won’t get payed if he doesn’t show up.


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Old 08-14-2019, 06:53 PM   #460
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He was the 3rd most important player on that offense...maybe 4th. Different time.

You donít pay RBs in todayís NFL, itís just not smart.


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3rd or 4th most important player on that offense. Young man are you dillusional? Did you ever see Emmitt play? Wait, is this Max Kellerman posing as Dale. Outrageous comment.😂😂😂
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Old 08-14-2019, 06:58 PM   #461
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I haven't kept up with the Boys, so help me out here.
Zeke has one more year on his contract, but is holding out for more money??
So, if he keeps up his holdout when season starts, does he still gets payed?
Zeke has 2 more years in his deal as the cowboys picked up the 5th year option, plus they could franchise tag him an additional 2 years. Zeke has no leverage in this deal
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Old 08-14-2019, 07:51 PM   #462
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3rd or 4th most important player on that offense. Young man are you dillusional? Did you ever see Emmitt play? Wait, is this Max Kellerman posing as Dale. Outrageous comment.😂😂😂
Emmitt had one of the greatest OLines of all time. He wasnít the best RB of his generation. I bet we wouldnít even be talking about him if he played for the Lions....

RB isnít very important in todayís NFL. Remember, McFadden had 1000 yards behind the young OLine in Dallas. They can get a much cheaper replacement
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Old 08-14-2019, 08:20 PM   #463
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Emmitt had one of the greatest OLines of all time. He wasnít the best RB of his generation. I bet we wouldnít even be talking about him if he played for the Lions....

RB isnít very important in todayís NFL. Remember, McFadden had 1000 yards behind the young OLine in Dallas. They can get a much cheaper replacement
Dallas is built to run it, that is why they drafted Zeke number 4, and no you cannot just plug a back in there, you would need about 3 of them and they would all need to be pretty **** good to amount to Zeke's production. If Dak was a great QB then you could use a lessor back, that is not the case here. Zeke is what makes this offense work, now that they have Cooper it will be a pick your poison type offense.
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Old 08-14-2019, 08:35 PM   #464
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Dallas is built to run it, that is why they drafted Zeke number 4, and no you cannot just plug a back in there, you would need about 3 of them and they would all need to be pretty **** good to amount to Zeke's production. If Dak was a great QB then you could use a lessor back, that is not the case here. Zeke is what makes this offense work, now that they have Cooper it will be a pick your poison type offense.
I disagree. Zeke is easier to replace than Dak, even though Zeke is the more talented player. Just facts...
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Old 08-14-2019, 08:45 PM   #465
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Dallas is built to run it, that is why they drafted Zeke number 4, and no you cannot just plug a back in there, you would need about 3 of them and they would all need to be pretty **** good to amount to Zeke's production. If Dak was a great QB then you could use a lessor back, that is not the case here. Zeke is what makes this offense work, now that they have Cooper it will be a pick your poison type offense.


You are delusional thinking it would take 3 good backs. Iíll take two decent ones in rotation over paying too much for one.


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Old 08-14-2019, 10:37 PM   #466
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Emmitt had one of the greatest OLines of all time. He wasnít the best RB of his generation. I bet we wouldnít even be talking about him if he played for the Lions....



RB isnít very important in todayís NFL. Remember, McFadden had 1000 yards behind the young OLine in Dallas. They can get a much cheaper replacement


Not sure what point youíre trying to make and McFadden isnít even in the conversation. I guarantee you no matter where Emmitt played, weíd be talking about him. The statement was made that Emmitt wasnít even the 3rd or 4th most important player on his team, which is totally inaccurate. I love all the expert opinions in this thread and Iím sure NFL teams arenít blowing up your cell with job offers. Iíll just stick to the facts and what actually occurred. That canít be argued with.


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Old 08-14-2019, 10:54 PM   #467
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Originally Posted by 12RingKing View Post
Emmitt had one of the greatest OLines of all time. He wasnít the best RB of his generation. I bet we wouldnít even be talking about him if he played for the Lions....

RB isnít very important in todayís NFL. Remember, McFadden had 1000 yards behind the young OLine in Dallas. They can get a much cheaper replacement
I agree with 100%.
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Old 08-15-2019, 04:06 AM   #468
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Not sure what point you’re trying to make and McFadden isn’t even in the conversation. I guarantee you no matter where Emmitt played, we’d be talking about him. The statement was made that Emmitt wasn’t even the 3rd or 4th most important player on his team, which is totally inaccurate. I love all the expert opinions in this thread and I’m sure NFL teams aren’t blowing up your cell with job offers. I’ll just stick to the facts and what actually occurred. That can’t be argued with.


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If you’re unsure of the point I’m making then maybe there’s no point in having a debate.

Point is, the OLine has a bigger impact on the strength of your running game than the RB himself. But, there are some exceptions in my opinion.

Basic philosophy in having strength in the trenches. It could be all the difference between having a guy run for 3.5 yards per carry to a guy getting 5 yards per carry.

I think there’s a common agreement here that while Zeke is the most talented of the 3 players in discussion, he would be the odd man out due to the cowboys strength on the OLine. Proof is in the pudding. McFadden, an average back in the NFL, rushes for 1000 yards behind your offensive line which wasn’t as good then as it is now.

There are much cheaper options for the Cowboys.

On the Emmitt topic, I watched every cowboys game I could then. I watched him destroy teams with the best OLine in the league. Maybe one of the best combined units of all time. He ran through holes 12’ wide.

I also watched Barry Sanders. There’s a huge difference in skill set between these two. If the players were to switch teams at that time, I don’t think we would be talking much about Emmitt. So you can go guarantee whatever you want, but like you have an opinion, so do I.
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Old 08-15-2019, 04:37 AM   #469
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Not sure why peeps want to get away from Zeke so fast. He is not close to being a regular back. He can take it to the house on any play. No doubt he comes with a lot of baggage. Than again, the Boys are no strangers to that.

Dak is a decent, perhaps above average play maker on a team with a dominate running game. He has not shown any sign of standing out by playing as a prototypical QB. Dak seems like a well mannered, hard working young man. Both great qualities but as much as we like that, it will not help him throw the football very accurately.

Hope Dak has and can improved and that I am totally wrong about him not being able to developing into a solid passer. IMHO you just don't see that happen often at this level this far into a qb career. I say pay Zeke for three years and take Dak on as a tag player to see what he can do before you sign him to a long deal.
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Old 08-15-2019, 07:38 AM   #470
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Heck, since the back does not matter and you can just plug any back in there then trade Zeke, you have Pollard and a couple other backs, everything will be fine.
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Old 08-15-2019, 08:22 AM   #471
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If youíre unsure of the point Iím making then maybe thereís no point in having a debate.

Point is, the OLine has a bigger impact on the strength of your running game than the RB himself. But, there are some exceptions in my opinion.

Basic philosophy in having strength in the trenches. It could be all the difference between having a guy run for 3.5 yards per carry to a guy getting 5 yards per carry.

I think thereís a common agreement here that while Zeke is the most talented of the 3 players in discussion, he would be the odd man out due to the cowboys strength on the OLine. Proof is in the pudding. McFadden, an average back in the NFL, rushes for 1000 yards behind your offensive line which wasnít as good then as it is now.

There are much cheaper options for the Cowboys.

On the Emmitt topic, I watched every cowboys game I could then. I watched him destroy teams with the best OLine in the league. Maybe one of the best combined units of all time. He ran through holes 12í wide.

I also watched Barry Sanders. Thereís a huge difference in skill set between these two. If the players were to switch teams at that time, I donít think we would be talking much about Emmitt. So you can go guarantee whatever you want, but like you have an opinion, so do I.


Opinions based on what ifís and what could have possibly been if this was that way or that was this way, are what we here all the time. just like if a frog had wings. Obvious statements about the importance of offensive line strength donít lend credence to your argument either. Sanders was a great all time back, never made an argument against that. Never mentioned him or Zeke or McFadden (btw, 1000 yard season is 60 yards a game average, not real exceptional) in my post. So your point doesnít make any since in regards to my post that you quoted. It seems as though you want to make this a Barry vs Emmitt debate so Iíll indulge you and play along. These are the facts.

Emmitt had a great offensive line but not for his whole career. He leads the NFL in all time rushing yards. Heís got 1 league MVP same for Sanders.
Emmitt 4 time NFL rushing leader same for Sanders.
Emmitt is a 4 time TD leader Sanders had one. Emmitt has the most rushing TDís in league history at 164. Sanders has 99 and is 9th in that. Emmitt is the 5th all time receptions leader in Cowboy history. Emmitt has a Super Bowl MVP Sanders 0.

Probably the biggest stat or comparison you can make is that Barry quit and Emmitt didnít. If you want to be a considered an all time great, then donít quit because you think your team is lousy. Emmitt had a great team early in his career but played on some pretty lousy teams with the Cowboys. Youíre certainly entitled to your opinion but like I stated early, Iíll base mine on the facts.


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Old 08-15-2019, 09:25 AM   #472
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JJ needs to get a deal done now with Dak and Cooper.

IMO, hold the line with Zeke since Jerry has all the cards with him.
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Old 08-15-2019, 10:14 AM   #473
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Opinions based on what ifís and what could have possibly been if this was that way or that was this way, are what we here all the time. just like if a frog had wings. Obvious statements about the importance of offensive line strength donít lend credence to your argument either. Sanders was a great all time back, never made an argument against that. Never mentioned him or Zeke or McFadden (btw, 1000 yard season is 60 yards a game average, not real exceptional) in my post. So your point doesnít make any since in regards to my post that you quoted. It seems as though you want to make this a Barry vs Emmitt debate so Iíll indulge you and play along. These are the facts.

Emmitt had a great offensive line but not for his whole career. He leads the NFL in all time rushing yards. Heís got 1 league MVP same for Sanders.
Emmitt 4 time NFL rushing leader same for Sanders.
Emmitt is a 4 time TD leader Sanders had one. Emmitt has the most rushing TDís in league history at 164. Sanders has 99 and is 9th in that. Emmitt is the 5th all time receptions leader in Cowboy history. Emmitt has a Super Bowl MVP Sanders 0.

Probably the biggest stat or comparison you can make is that Barry quit and Emmitt didnít. If you want to be a considered an all time great, then donít quit because you think your team is lousy. Emmitt had a great team early in his career but played on some pretty lousy teams with the Cowboys. Youíre certainly entitled to your opinion but like I stated early, Iíll base mine on the facts.


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Facts are facts. Youíre correct. I will not argue Emmitt vs Barry with you because we obviously have differing ďopinions.Ē

The benchmark for a RB to have had a successful season seems to hinge on the 1000 yard mark. While it may not be that impressive to you, itís the standard by which most grade.

This whole topic centers around if Zeke is worth the money heís wanting. Each team weighs in on that based on the strength of the supporting cast. My point is, Dallas doesnít need Zeke to have a successful season running the ball. They shouldnít invest absurd amounts of money in him when his production over replacement is PROBABLY not significant.
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Old 08-15-2019, 11:09 AM   #474
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Facts are facts. Youíre correct. I will not argue Emmitt vs Barry with you because we obviously have differing ďopinions.Ē



The benchmark for a RB to have had a successful season seems to hinge on the 1000 yard mark. While it may not be that impressive to you, itís the standard by which most grade.



This whole topic centers around if Zeke is worth the money heís wanting. Each team weighs in on that based on the strength of the supporting cast. My point is, Dallas doesnít need Zeke to have a successful season running the ball. They shouldnít invest absurd amounts of money in him when his production over replacement is PROBABLY not significant.


Actually 1,000 yards isnít really a measuring stick. As said above itís about 62 yards per game. Backs are measured more on how many 100 yard games they have so when you get a back rushing for 1,500+ yards a season then heís elite. 62 a game is average.

No matter matter how dominate your line is a back has a split second to see the hole and then he needs the acceleration to hit it. A good o-line may get a huge push and allow any back to gain 4 yards every time they touch the ball, but a great back has the vision to see the holes, accelerate, hit them and turn the 4 yard gains into 20 yard gains.

I also hate comparing backs like Alfred Morrisís numbers against Zekes. How many times was the box stacked when he was in there? Or how many times did he pick up 8 yards on a draw play on 3rd and 15 against the dime? Reminds me of the year Troy Hambrick averaged like 6 yards a carry and everybody said we didnít need Emmit anymore(although it was towards the end of his career) then Troy Hambrick got the starting job and averaged 3 yards per carry. Itís different when the focus is all on you and youíre the guy.

Man yíall are selling Elliot short. One thing that has been proven is that Dak is below average without Zeke and maybe average and just good enough with him.


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Old 08-15-2019, 11:09 AM   #475
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Heck, since the back does not matter and you can just plug any back in there then trade Zeke, you have Pollard and a couple other backs, everything will be fine.


Thatís exactly what I would do, except he has no value right now.


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Old 08-15-2019, 11:18 AM   #476
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Not sure what point youíre trying to make and McFadden isnít even in the conversation. I guarantee you no matter where Emmitt played, weíd be talking about him. The statement was made that Emmitt wasnít even the 3rd or 4th most important player on his team, which is totally inaccurate. I love all the expert opinions in this thread and Iím sure NFL teams arenít blowing up your cell with job offers. Iíll just stick to the facts and what actually occurred. That canít be argued with.


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Mike and Troy made that thing work more than Emmit, IMO. Not just because of what they did on the field, but also because of the tone they set.


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Old 08-15-2019, 11:30 AM   #477
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Thatís exactly what I would do, except he has no value right now.


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Oh I think you are wrong on his value. It is really pretty simple, with an elite back you have to account for him every play, defenses load the box more on Zeke than anyone, you know why ? Because they don't think Dak can beat them with his arm, now if Dak improves ( which I believe he has ) the defense can choose to pick their poison, they stack the box Dak should be able to kill them on passing, they lay back and play zone, hello Zeke, he makes this offense period.
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Old 08-15-2019, 11:38 AM   #478
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I'd sign a Zeke trade without blinking if it got close to a H.Walker type of deal, which is possible. Such a deal would automatically make Cowboys Super Bowl relevant for years & years & years.
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Old 08-15-2019, 11:54 AM   #479
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I'd sign a Zeke trade without blinking if it got close to a H.Walker type of deal, which is possible. Such a deal would automatically make Cowboys Super Bowl relevant for years & years & years.
I would too but do we have a QB that can carry this team with his arm ? That is the 150M dollar question.
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Old 08-15-2019, 11:57 AM   #480
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Oh I think you are wrong on his value. It is really pretty simple, with an elite back you have to account for him every play, defenses load the box more on Zeke than anyone, you know why ? Because they don't think Dak can beat them with his arm, now if Dak improves ( which I believe he has ) the defense can choose to pick their poison, they stack the box Dak should be able to kill them on passing, they lay back and play zone, hello Zeke, he makes this offense period.

Iím talking about trade value. He is supposedly under contract for two years, but he wonít show up for work unless he gets about a $70 million contractÖ That makes him worth almost nothing on the trade market. I think Pittsburgh got a third for Bell.

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Iíd sign a Zeke trade without blinking if it got close to a H.Walker type of deal, which is possible. Such a deal would automatically make Cowboys Super Bowl relevant for years & years & years.


Completely differnt NFL now, that stuff doesnít happen.


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Old 08-15-2019, 12:29 PM   #481
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Actually 1,000 yards isnít really a measuring stick. As said above itís about 62 yards per game. Backs are measured more on how many 100 yard games they have so when you get a back rushing for 1,500+ yards a season then heís elite. 62 a game is average.

No matter matter how dominate your line is a back has a split second to see the hole and then he needs the acceleration to hit it. A good o-line may get a huge push and allow any back to gain 4 yards every time they touch the ball, but a great back has the vision to see the holes, accelerate, hit them and turn the 4 yard gains into 20 yard gains.

I also hate comparing backs like Alfred Morrisís numbers against Zekes. How many times was the box stacked when he was in there? Or how many times did he pick up 8 yards on a draw play on 3rd and 15 against the dime? Reminds me of the year Troy Hambrick averaged like 6 yards a carry and everybody said we didnít need Emmit anymore(although it was towards the end of his career) then Troy Hambrick got the starting job and averaged 3 yards per carry. Itís different when the focus is all on you and youíre the guy.

Man yíall are selling Elliot short. One thing that has been proven is that Dak is below average without Zeke and maybe average and just good enough with him.


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How many 1500 yard backs were there last year?

There were only 9 rushers with 1000 yards or more last year..... thatís far from average by the numbers.

The benchmark is 1000 yards. Sorry
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Old 08-15-2019, 12:52 PM   #482
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How many 1500 yard backs were there last year?



There were only 9 rushers with 1000 yards or more last year..... thatís far from average by the numbers.



The benchmark is 1000 yards. Sorry


Ezekiel Elliott- 1,440 in 15 games.

2 years ago over 1,600 in 15 games.

The guy is elite and not everybody can do what he does.


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Old 08-15-2019, 12:57 PM   #483
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I get it that is a passing league now, but youíre not going to win that way if you donít have a qb that can throw the ball consistently. Philosophy has changed in the league, but there was never a rule implemented that says you canít be a run first team with an average quarterback and win.


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Old 08-15-2019, 05:58 PM   #484
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Facts are facts. Youíre correct. I will not argue Emmitt vs Barry with you because we obviously have differing ďopinions.Ē



The benchmark for a RB to have had a successful season seems to hinge on the 1000 yard mark. While it may not be that impressive to you, itís the standard by which most grade.



This whole topic centers around if Zeke is worth the money heís wanting. Each team weighs in on that based on the strength of the supporting cast. My point is, Dallas doesnít need Zeke to have a successful season running the ball. They shouldnít invest absurd amounts of money in him when his production over replacement is PROBABLY not significant.


I agree with not breaking the bank to get him a new contract, I just donít believe theyíre good enough without him. If heís not there, and Iím a Cowboy fan, I hope Iím wrong.


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Old 08-15-2019, 06:11 PM   #485
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Mike and Troy made that thing work more than Emmit, IMO. Not just because of what they did on the field, but also because of the tone they set.


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Micheal definitely set a tone and Aikman was a strong leader, but the heart of that team was Emmitt. He was a vocal leader and inspired his team with his play. Do you remember the game against the Giants in 1993 to clinch the NFC East championship? Emmitt ran for 170+ with a separated shoulder. Thatís just one example. The Cowboys would not have won or have been the dynasty they were without 22. No way.


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Old 08-15-2019, 09:13 PM   #486
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Micheal definitely set a tone and Aikman was a strong leader, but the heart of that team was Emmitt. He was a vocal leader and inspired his team with his play. Do you remember the game against the Giants in 1993 to clinch the NFC East championship? Emmitt ran for 170+ with a separated shoulder. Thatís just one example. The Cowboys would not have won or have been the dynasty they were without 22. No way.


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I agree about Emmitt, and I do not think they will win anything without Zeke, Zeke will probably rush for 1400 and have 800 in receiving this year, he will be used much better than Lennihan used him, mark it down, if he shows up he will have at least 2200 yards from scrimmage, that is a load.
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Old 08-17-2019, 10:51 AM   #487
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Stole this pic off the Facebooks. Flight from Mex to Dal. Heís alive.

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Old 08-17-2019, 09:44 PM   #488
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Zeke who?

Pollard looked great... Dak getting the ball out quicker.

Witten sighting
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Old 08-17-2019, 09:47 PM   #489
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Pollard doing just fine. Longer Zeke goes the less his stock is worth. Guy should have showed up day one and cashed in on play.


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Old Yesterday, 07:59 AM   #490
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Pollard doing just fine. Longer Zeke goes the less his stock is worth. Guy should have showed up day one and cashed in on play.


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My thinking is Zeke's stock went down a good bit. Chunn looked pretty decent as well and played good on special team. There were a few more bright spots on defense. Depth looks better than it has in a while. I think Rush may have clinched his spot. Next game should be real interesting.
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Old Yesterday, 09:58 AM   #491
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I bet they make Mike White pay his own airfare back to Dallas before they release him. I donít care if he is a 5th round pick. The game is way too fast for him.
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Old Yesterday, 10:08 AM   #492
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Ole #82 Rides again!
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Old Yesterday, 11:13 AM   #493
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I bet they make Mike White pay his own airfare back to Dallas before they release him. I donít care if he is a 5th round pick. The game is way too fast for him.
Looked to me too like he needs to find a new line of work
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Old Yesterday, 02:49 PM   #494
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They been hyping Pollard up pretty good ever since they drafted him, he is going to make some big plays, exactly what they needed.
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Old Yesterday, 03:15 PM   #495
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Pollard looked to have a good burst he def didnít look like athletically he was struggling to keep up. Dak still didnít show me anything especially on that deep ball.... also who got the cfb thread locked!
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Old Yesterday, 03:37 PM   #496
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Pollard looked to have a good burst he def didnít look like athletically he was struggling to keep up. Dak still didnít show me anything especially on that deep ball.... also who got the cfb thread locked!


They started a new one.

Edit....I see youíre already all over it.


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Old Yesterday, 04:12 PM   #497
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Boycotting pro football. All overpaid.
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Old Yesterday, 08:26 PM   #498
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Boycotting pro football. All overpaid.


Boycott this thread too please.. thanks
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Old Yesterday, 08:45 PM   #499
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Boycotting pro football. All overpaid.


Socialist Bernie supporter? Who do you suggest we give their money to? Free market dictates they get paid what they do.


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