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Old 03-13-2019, 10:55 PM   #1
curtintex
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Question Serious Question about College Admissions Scandal

There is no question about the moral or ethical barriers crossed in this scandal. It's just another example of people softening the world for their kids. On one end you have parents paying tons of money to get unworthy kids into institutions that they'd otherwise not be admitted. In the middle, you have a man setting up a network to facilitate the moving of money from the parents willing, to the people that could actually get things done at the institution level. On the other end, you have coaches, registrars, and administrators accepting money, large amounts of money, to circumvent the normal admissions procedures and rules to admit unworthy applicants.

So the question is...and I ask this out of ignorance....what laws were broken?

As far as I know, none of this involves scholarship money, so I wonder who the victim was in these crimes besides the folks that lost a spot to these silver-spooned peckerwoods.

Does the difference between Public or Private institution matter at all?

No doubt it's a bad deal, but WHAT do they prosecute them for?
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Old 03-13-2019, 10:59 PM   #2
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I got no answer for your question.

But I'll say those that continue to make fun of the generations younger than them should take a look at why there are worthless *** kids in the world.

It's their parents fault
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Old 03-13-2019, 11:07 PM   #3
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I got no answer for your question.

But I'll say those that continue to make fun of the generations younger than them should take a look at why there are worthless *** kids in the world.

It's their parents fault
Absolutely no question. I have friends, good friends, that raised ****bird kids. Useless as teets on a boar hog. My millennial daughter says all the time that "Somebody had to raise these idiots".
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Old 03-13-2019, 11:15 PM   #4
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Everything is for sale.

Always has been and will never change.
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Old 03-13-2019, 11:18 PM   #5
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I have not followed it any closer than what is being forced on me by the news, but I do believe some did involve scholarships. The news reported the UT tennis coach being involved. I honestly donít understand why it is such a huge story. Many more deserving and hardworking students have been kept out of the university of their choice because of affirmative action than the few elite kids who have had they way paid for by their parents. While I donít condone it, if the total number involved is 100 students spread across 15 different universities the percentage is minuscule in comparison. Kick em out, fine the parents, throw the book at the master mind and get it off my tv.
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Old 03-13-2019, 11:32 PM   #6
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I haven’t been into all the coverage on the matter, but some of the reporting mentioned mail fraud as an area for prosecution.
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Old 03-13-2019, 11:35 PM   #7
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Default Serious Question about College Admissions Scandal

Quote:
Originally Posted by curtintex View Post
There is no question about the moral or ethical barriers crossed in this scandal. It's just another example of people softening the world for their kids. On one end you have parents paying tons of money to get unworthy kids into institutions that they'd otherwise not be admitted. In the middle, you have a man setting up a network to facilitate the moving of money from the parents willing, to the people that could actually get things done at the institution level. On the other end, you have coaches, registrars, and administrators accepting money, large amounts of money, to circumvent the normal admissions procedures and rules to admit unworthy applicants.



So the question is...and I ask this out of ignorance....what laws were broken?



As far as I know, none of this involves scholarship money, so I wonder who the victim was in these crimes besides the folks that lost a spot to these silver-spooned peckerwoods.



Does the difference between Public or Private institution matter at all?



No doubt it's a bad deal, but WHAT do they prosecute them for?


Itís going on in High School just as bad for athletes. Take a private school with a 15k to 20 per year tuition and look at the athletes they have.


On one hand you have talented athletes getting paid to go to a school by rich alumni and the other you have rich folks paying for their kids to get into schools that they donít qualify for.

Then you probably have the handler collecting a commission.


https://media.giphy.com/media/gugwPnLQWDXos/giphy.gif



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Old 03-13-2019, 11:38 PM   #8
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The way the media is hyping the issue and a "million dollar bond" issued to the lady actor- they act like I'm supposed to care.
I really don't.

So some people with a lot of money used it to obtain something the common man cannot.
Sounds like everyday life to me.

Hence private jet vs first class vs business class vs a bus ticket.

I'm not saying it's right or should continue, just don't understand the hype behind it.
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Old 03-13-2019, 11:54 PM   #9
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Wire fraud, mail fraud and conspiracy to commit the above is what they have been charged with. Federal fraud statute is pretty broad and has big teeth.
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Old 03-13-2019, 11:55 PM   #10
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If one person approaches the Yale soccer coach and says, "hey, I will give you $500,000 to lie and help my kid get into Yale." the crime is probably still there but harder to nail down. Since this was a large organized effort, a conspiracy, RICO Act laws apply for simply participating.
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Old 03-14-2019, 12:07 AM   #11
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William Rick Singer, 58, of Newport Beach, Calif., owner of the Edge College & Career Network and CEO of the Key Worldwide Foundation, was charged in an Information with racketeering conspiracy, money laundering conspiracy, conspiracy to defraud the United States, and obstruction of justice. ... [Singer pleaded guilty on Tuesday.]

Mark Riddell, 36, of Palmetto, Fla., was charged in an Information with conspiracy to commit mail fraud and honest services mail fraud as well as conspiracy to commit money laundering;

Rudolph "Rudy" Meredith, 51, of Madison, Conn., the former head women's soccer coach at Yale University, was charged in an Information with conspiracy to commit wire fraud and honest services wire fraud as well as honest services wire fraud;

John Vandemoer, 41, of Stanford, Calif., the former sailing coach at Stanford University, was charged in an Information with racketeering conspiracy. [Vandemoer pleaded guilty before a federal court in Boston on Tuesday.]

David Sidoo, 59, of Vancouver, Canada, was charged in an indictment with conspiracy to commit mail and wire fraud. Sidoo was arrested on Friday, March 8th in San Jose, Calif., and appeared in U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California [on Monday]. A date for his initial appearance in federal court in Boston has not yet been scheduled.

The following defendants were charged in an indictment with racketeering conspiracy:

Igor Dvorskiy, 52, of Sherman Oaks, Calif., director of a private elementary and high school in Los Angeles and a test administrator for the College Board and ACT;

Gordon Ernst, 52, of Chevy Chase, Md., former head coach of men and women's tennis at Georgetown University;
William Ferguson, 48, of Winston-Salem, N.C., former women's volleyball coach at Wake Forest University;
Martin Fox, 62, of Houston, Texas, president of a private tennis academy in Houston;
Donna Heinel, 57, of Long Beach, Calif., the senior associate athletic director at the University of Southern California;
Laura Janke, 36, of North Hollywood, Calif., former assistant coach of women's soccer at the University of Southern California;
Ali Kho[s]roshahin, 49, of Fountain Valley, Calif., former head coach of women's soccer at the University of Southern California;
Steven Masera, 69, of Folsom, Calif., accountant and financial officer for the Edge College & Career Network and the Key Worldwide Foundation;
Jorge Salcedo, 46, of Los Angeles, Calif., former head coach of men's soccer at the University of California at Los Angeles;
Mikaela Sanford, 32, of Folsom, Calif., employee of the Edge College & Career Network and the Key Worldwide Foundation;
Jovan Vavic, 57, of Rancho Palos Verdes, Calif., former water polo coach at the University of Southern California; and
Niki Williams, 44, of Houston, Texas, assistant teacher at a Houston high school and test administrator for the College Board and ACT.

The following defendant was charged in a criminal complaint with conspiracy to commit mail fraud and honest services mail fraud:

Michael Center, 54, of Austin Texas, head coach of men's tennis at the University of Texas at Austin

The following defendants were charged in a criminal complaint with conspiracy to commit mail and wire fraud:

Gregory Abbott, 68, of New York, N.Y., the founder and chairman of a food and beverage packaging company;
Marcia Abbott, 59, of New York, N.Y.;
Gamal Abdelaziz, 62, of Las Vegas, Nev., the former senior executive of a resort and casino operator in Macau, China;
Diane Blake, 55, of San Francisco, Calif., an executive at a retail merchandising firm;
Todd Blake, 53, of San Francisco, Calif., an entrepreneur and investor;
Jane Buckingham, 50, of Beverly Hills, Calif., the CEO of a boutique marketing company;
Gordon Caplan, 52, of Greenwich, Conn., co-chairman of an international law firm based in New York City;
I-Hin "Joey" Chen, 64, of Newport Beach, Calif., operates a provider of warehousing and related services for the shipping industry;
Amy Colburn, 59, of Palo Alto, Calif.;
Gregory Colburn, 61, of Palo Alto, Calif.;
Robert Flaxman, 62, of Laguna Beach, Calif., founder and CEO of real estate development firm;
Mossimo Giannulli, 55, of Los Angeles, Calif., fashion designer;
Elizabeth Henriquez, 56, of Atherton, Calif.;
Manuel Henriquez, 55, of Atherton, Calif., founder, chairman and CEO of a publicly traded specialty finance company;
Douglas Hodge, 61, of Laguna Beach, Calif., former CEO of investment management company;
Felicity Huffman, 56, of Los Angeles, Calif., an actress;
Agustin Huneeus Jr., 53, of San Francisco, Calif., owner of wine vineyards;
Bruce Isackson, 61, of Hillsborough, Calif., president of a real estate development firm;
Davina Isackson, 55, of Hillsborough, Calif.;
Michelle Janavs, 48, of Newport Coast, Calif., former executive of a large food manufacturer;
Elisabeth Kimmel, 54, of Las Vegas, Nev., owner and president of a media company;
Marjorie Klapper, 50, of Menlo Park, Calif., co-owner of jewelry business;
Lori Loughlin, 54, of Los Angeles, Calif., an actress;
Toby MacFarlane, 56, of Del Mar, Calif., former senior executive at a title insurance company;
William McGlashan Jr., 55, of Mill Valley, Calif., senior executive at a global equity firm;
Marci Palatella, 63, of Healdsburg, Calif., CEO of a liquor distribution company;
Peter Jan Sartorio, 53, of Menlo Park, Calif., packaged food entrepreneur;
Stephen Semprevivo, 53, of Los Angeles, Calif., executive at privately held provider of outsourced sales teams;
Devin Sloane, 53, of Los Angeles, Calif., founder and CEO of provider of drinking and wastewater systems;
John Wilson, 59, of Hyannis Port, Mass., founder and CEO of private equity and real estate development firm;
Homayoun Zadeh, 57, of Calabasas, Calif., an associate professor of dentistry; and
Robert Zangrillo, 52, of Miami, Fla., founder and CEO of private investment firm.
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Old 03-14-2019, 12:21 AM   #12
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I was wondering the same when I heard it on the radio. So...money laundering, mail fraud, wire fraud, conspiracy rackeetering, etc.

Im impressed that whats-his-face got to the test administrators.
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Old 03-14-2019, 12:58 AM   #13
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Default Serious Question about College Admissions Scandal

The Universityof Texas has now been named as a school that recieved in this scam(Acording to FOX).. It will be interesting to watch this unfold... When the smoke clears on this deal There is no telling who will be implicated in this ridiculous scheme..

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Old 03-14-2019, 01:05 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXJIM View Post
If one person approaches the Yale soccer coach and says, "hey, I will give you $500,000 to lie and help my kid get into Yale." the crime is probably still there but harder to nail down. Since this was a large organized effort, a conspiracy, RICO Act laws apply for simply participating.


The problem is paying the coach and it going into their pocket vs the university. Thatís the problem defrauding the university is what is illegal. Itís basically theft from your employer.


If you paid me to sell hot dogs but I sold 5% of your hot dogs for profit on the side I would be stealing.






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Old 03-14-2019, 01:21 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Ice View Post
The problem is paying the coach and it going into their pocket vs the university. Thatís the problem defrauding the university is what is illegal. Itís basically theft from your employer.


If you paid me to sell hot dogs but I sold 5% of your hot dogs for profit on the side I would be stealing.






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Perhaps, breach of employment, perhaps fraud, depends on how good the lawyer is

What about the person offering the money?
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Old 03-14-2019, 01:32 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXJIM View Post
Perhaps, breach of employment, perhaps fraud, depends on how good the lawyer is



What about the person offering the money?


The people paying will have to deal with the whole bribes thingy


I was talking about the folks who took the bribes and they were stealing from the university.
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Old 03-14-2019, 01:39 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Ice View Post
The people paying will have to deal with the whole bribes thingy


I was talking about the folks who took the bribes and they were stealing from the university.
Maybe...stealing what exactly? It's not like they were diverting tuition payments, they were taking extra payments to grease the skids.
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Old 03-14-2019, 01:45 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by TXJIM View Post
Maybe...stealing what exactly? It's not like they were diverting tuition payments, they were taking extra payments to grease the skids.


Coaches giving scholarships to students that donít deserve them has to have an effect on the university. Now if they are just paying and no scholarships are given then thatís different.


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Old 03-14-2019, 03:04 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveC View Post
The way the media is hyping the issue and a "million dollar bond" issued to the lady actor- they act like I'm supposed to care.
I really don't.

So some people with a lot of money used it to obtain something the common man cannot.
Sounds like everyday life to me.

Hence private jet vs first class vs business class vs a bus ticket.

I'm not saying it's right or should continue, just don't understand the hype behind it.
pretty much my thoughts on things.
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Old 03-14-2019, 04:00 AM   #20
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Actually what i have read at least one of these cases involves a kid sign a LOI, but not playing the sport but still reaping the benefits.

Besides being morally wrong, its fraud.
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Old 03-14-2019, 05:36 AM   #21
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I see nothing wrong with it, it's the only way a white kid can get a athletic scholarship.

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Old 03-14-2019, 05:38 AM   #22
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I see nothing wrong with it, it's the only way a white kid can get a athletic scholarship.

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lol nice...there's always golf I suppose
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Old 03-14-2019, 07:04 AM   #23
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Tax fraud was mentioned yesterday as well..I'm guessing here..Maybe they wrote off the bribe?

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Old 03-14-2019, 07:21 AM   #24
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Tax fraud was mentioned yesterday as well..I'm guessing here..Maybe they wrote off the bribe?

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Yep, apparently the 'donations' were deductible...I need to talk to my CPA!
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Old 03-14-2019, 07:22 AM   #25
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Part of the scheme was altering SAT and other test results.


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Old 03-14-2019, 07:24 AM   #26
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I havenít been into all the coverage on the matter, but some of the reporting mentioned mail fraud as an area for prosecution.
Funny how they WILL find something/anything to prosecute them with...But yet politicians get away with way worse all the freaking time and nothing is done.
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Old 03-14-2019, 07:26 AM   #27
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It’s the ultimate “Look what my kid did” situation.
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Old 03-14-2019, 07:37 AM   #28
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It's interesting to say the least. My main issue is the SAT/ACT practices that were being doctored up. The mastermind had a set up to allow stand alone tests to be administered to single students with a "proxy" present to administer the test, yep, that guy was on the take. Lots of collusion and falsified records I am sure.

The few that had athletic scholarships and not playing the sports, to me that is just a generous benefactor paying the kids way in another fashion.
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Old 03-14-2019, 07:58 AM   #29
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I don't understand what the big deal is here. This crap happens everyday whether it be with a donor's kid, legacy's kid, or just kid with a very prestigious name. Sure the may not be technically "bribing" but people use their influence to get their kid or a kid into college all the time. I'll give you another example, went to a small D2 school. There were foreigners in several my classes that could barely speak English and could not read English. Heck some barely came to class, but they graduated just like me. I asked a professor I became close to when I was working on my MBA about how this is possible. She said that this school has a big market for foreigners. They come over here, go to college, get a degree, and then tell their brother, sisters, and cousins about it. Then they come and get an "education". Best part is, they pay cash. Money talks and bull spit walks.
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Old 03-14-2019, 08:09 AM   #30
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They set up shell non profit companies to work thru and made these contributions tax deductible.

Like dale donates $500,000 to Jerry’s 501c3 and writes it off and jerry makes sure his kid is playing lacrosse at Maryland. That’s called tax evasion and fraud
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Old 03-14-2019, 08:20 AM   #31
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They set up shell non profit companies to work thru and made these contributions tax deductible.

Like dale donates $500,000 to Jerry’s 501c3 and writes it off and jerry makes sure his kid is playing lacrosse at Maryland. That’s called tax evasion and fraud
I understand the legalities of it. What I don't understand is why there's such an outcry for this nonsense. Most people don't even understand why what they did was illegal. They just want to harp on the wealthy using their money to fix the game and etc. As some have said in this thread, that's just life.
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Old 03-14-2019, 08:28 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by curtintex View Post
There is no question about the moral or ethical barriers crossed in this scandal. It's just another example of people softening the world for their kids. On one end you have parents paying tons of money to get unworthy kids into institutions that they'd otherwise not be admitted. In the middle, you have a man setting up a network to facilitate the moving of money from the parents willing, to the people that could actually get things done at the institution level. On the other end, you have coaches, registrars, and administrators accepting money, large amounts of money, to circumvent the normal admissions procedures and rules to admit unworthy applicants.

So the question is...and I ask this out of ignorance....what laws were broken?

As far as I know, none of this involves scholarship money, so I wonder who the victim was in these crimes besides the folks that lost a spot to these silver-spooned peckerwoods.

Does the difference between Public or Private institution matter at all?

No doubt it's a bad deal, but WHAT do they prosecute them for?
I have had the same questions. most of the charges were labeled as "conspiracy to commit mail fraud". All I can think this charge amounts to is them mailing in faulty document to the school. Which to me means they got nothing much to charge them on. People pay to get their kids into school all the time by donating to the school. From what I have heard so far it's a waste of time but maybe there is more to the story.

While I certainly dont agree with what was going on I dont think this is just this generation. Stuff like this has happened since universities started. Maybe this is just in our face so to speak. It's sad that it has to happen.

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Old 03-14-2019, 08:31 AM   #33
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Last time I checked bribery, fraud, racketeering, and mail fraud were illegal.
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Old 03-14-2019, 08:34 AM   #34
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Hell I don't see the big deal.



Sorry mam your kids don't qualify academically...but for a one time $100,000 donation to the general fund we can give Buffy an exemption for entrance. Its up to her to make the grades after that. If Buffy makes the grades, good for her and congrats on a fine degree....if she doesn't then the school got a nice donation for her attempt
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Old 03-14-2019, 08:37 AM   #35
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The mastermind had a doctor that would label their kid having a disability when they did not. That faux disability allowed them to take the test under special circumstances under the American Disability Act. This allowed the administer of test to alter the results. Follow the money and you found a bribe. At least this is one of the theory I've heard.

Falsifying an application would be another. Next time you fill out an application read the fine print. Somewhere it states it's a crime to falsify any information you submit.
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Old 03-14-2019, 08:41 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Muygrande View Post
Wire fraud, mail fraud and conspiracy to commit the above is what they have been charged with. Federal fraud statute is pretty broad and has big teeth.
This. They use the broad structure of this law to charge them with something.

"any fraudulent scheme to intentionally deprive another of property or honest services via mail or wire communication."
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Old 03-14-2019, 08:42 AM   #37
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Really, don't see anything wrong here?

It was all illegal. Hope they all get the book thrown at them. If you have to buy your kid into college then maybe they shouldn't be there.
Those kids will have the same morals as their parents and that's kind of scary to me.
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Old 03-14-2019, 08:50 AM   #38
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Colleges have devalued the hell out of themselves already. Anyone who thinks that getting "accepted" into a college is a big deal is ridiculous... there are 1000's of colleges that you are in if you have a pulse and student loans lined up. I too am struggling to see what actual law was broken... if the statement was as basic as: "Lori paid 500k for her daughter to go to USC, to play tennis" <<<that would be normal, 100% normal college procedure
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Old 03-14-2019, 08:52 AM   #39
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What’s the big deal? The government does the same thing through affirmative action.
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Old 03-14-2019, 09:01 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Smart View Post
Hell I don't see the big deal.



Sorry mam your kids don't qualify academically...but for a one time $100,000 donation to the general fund we can give Buffy an exemption for entrance. Its up to her to make the grades after that. If Buffy makes the grades, good for her and congrats on a fine degree....if she doesn't then the school got a nice donation for her attempt
This does happen on a regular basis, and from what I understand, it is perfectly legal. A part of the issue here is that the money was going to school employees to grease the skids for the kids to gain entry, and not to the universities general fund. Black Ice mentioned it like stealing from your employer. The universities aren't getting that donation money, instead an employee is getting it. Then add on top of it all the test cheating, "donations" to the falsified 501c3 orgs, tax deductions, etc and it becomes a bigger problem.

The government wants its' money and so do universities. Run outside the base path and you get called out.
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Old 03-14-2019, 09:04 AM   #41
Rush2Judge
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Just a thought... How did the tennis coach (and others) claim that income on his taxes? Tax fraud has taken a lot of bad people down over course of history.
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Old 03-14-2019, 09:18 AM   #42
batmaninja
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Sheila Jackson Lee got into and graduated from Yale.

I guess they had her down as a nose tackle for their 3-4 defense.

This has been going on for a long time.
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Old 03-14-2019, 09:23 AM   #43
Traildust
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How is this any different than recruiting all these star athletes who can barely complete a sentence?
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Old 03-14-2019, 09:35 AM   #44
BrianL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smart View Post
Hell I don't see the big deal.



Sorry mam your kids don't qualify academically...but for a one time $100,000 donation to the general fund we can give Buffy an exemption for entrance. Its up to her to make the grades after that. If Buffy makes the grades, good for her and congrats on a fine degree....if she doesn't then the school got a nice donation for her attempt
That would have been legal and is done often. Although you probably need to add another 0.

Last edited by BrianL; 03-14-2019 at 09:37 AM.
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Old 03-14-2019, 12:20 PM   #45
Atfulldraw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smart View Post
Hell I don't see the big deal.



Sorry mam your kids don't qualify academically...but for a one time $100,000 donation to the general fund we can give Buffy an exemption for entrance. Its up to her to make the grades after that. If Buffy makes the grades, good for her and congrats on a fine degree....if she doesn't then the school got a nice donation for her attempt
Exactly.

If I give enough to name a library after me, Iím pretty sure my daughter will get to study in that there library (right after her admission breezes through)

I mean, not that my kid needs it....sheís a genius level nerd, but you get the idea
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Old 03-14-2019, 12:23 PM   #46
Atfulldraw
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Seriously though, this is just another shot in the class envy war they are trying to foment.

Just so happens a lot of limousine liberals got caught up in it too
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Old 03-14-2019, 12:31 PM   #47
GarGuy
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I think they should investigate how really rich folks get on the best deer leases too!
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Old 03-14-2019, 01:04 PM   #48
BrianL
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This isn't about the schools doing it, it is about their employees taking the money, and the people giving bribes then using it as a tax deduction......stupid....stupid....stupid.
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Old 03-14-2019, 03:22 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Cullstuff View Post
Part of the scheme was altering SAT and other test results.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This^^^^^ A person or persons were taking SAT exams or providing the answers for them. That would be illegal.
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Old 03-14-2019, 04:29 PM   #50
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This^^^^^ A person or persons were taking SAT exams or providing the answers for them. That would be illegal.
Is there a law a state or felony law against that? I would think that would be between the individual, school and SAT. Not sure how or why the state or feds would be involved in the SAT but maybe so. By no means am I saying I agree with the cheating.
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