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Old 06-22-2022, 02:22 PM   #1
FLASH_OUTDOORS
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Default What’s your opinion on this….

A guy is selling a piece of land for let’s say 850k. A church puts in an offer on the property 100k less than asking price but tells him they will give him a receipt for a 250k donation that he never made.


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Old 06-22-2022, 02:23 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLASH_OUTDOORS View Post
A guy is selling a piece of land for let’s say 850k. A church puts in an offer on the property 100k less than asking price but tells him they will give him a receipt for a 250k donation that he never made.


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That Church needs to be exposed and out of business.
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Old 06-22-2022, 02:24 PM   #3
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Typical!!!
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Old 06-22-2022, 02:24 PM   #4
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Church's should be taxed.....

Unless I am missing something seems sketchy and wrong.
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Old 06-22-2022, 02:26 PM   #5
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Typical!!!

Is it really?


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Old 06-22-2022, 02:26 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Aggiehunter08 View Post
That Church needs to be exposed and out of business.
Yep, if the whole church leadership is on board with that kind of dishonesty. If it's just one guy speaking for the church when the rest of the leadership isn't in agreement with that or maybe has no knowledge of the offer, then just that one guy needs to be removed from leadership. Either way, that ain't right.
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Old 06-22-2022, 02:27 PM   #7
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Some folks think they can be saved once and then do all kinds of bad chit. I don’t believe that and I believe they won’t either………eventually.
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Old 06-22-2022, 02:27 PM   #8
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Old 06-22-2022, 02:29 PM   #9
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I’d look for a new church.


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Old 06-22-2022, 02:29 PM   #10
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That Church needs to be exposed and out of business.
This!
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Old 06-22-2022, 02:32 PM   #11
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I could see a grey area if he knocked 100k off price and they wrote it as a donation…….and gave him a 100k receipt but that’s a stretch


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Old 06-22-2022, 02:40 PM   #12
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I don't know Osteen was expanding again

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Old 06-22-2022, 02:40 PM   #13
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What if he gave the land to the church? I would think in that case he could legitimately claim donation for the appraised value of the land. If that is true, then I would think he could claim whatever the land appraised above the 750k offer. Either way, I think an appraisal would be needed and not just "We'll give you a receipt for a $250k donation"
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Old 06-22-2022, 02:43 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by FLASH_OUTDOORS View Post
I could see a grey area if he knocked 100k off price and they wrote it as a donation…….and gave him a 100k receipt but that’s a stretch


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This I could agree with. In essence he is donating that 100k to the church. Anything above that amount is shady and dishonest. I would think whoever is doing the books for the church would question it.
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Old 06-22-2022, 02:46 PM   #15
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Seems like it'd lead to tax fraud and be another "church" run by hypocrites who don't practice the integrity they preach.
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Old 06-22-2022, 02:49 PM   #16
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tax fraud
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Old 06-22-2022, 02:56 PM   #17
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Tell em to pay the asking price and they can sleep with a clear conscience.
The donation thing seems shady as hail.
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Old 06-22-2022, 03:00 PM   #18
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I kinda concur with the tax thing anymore
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Old 06-22-2022, 03:05 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Aggiehunter08 View Post
That Church needs to be exposed and out of business.
yep
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Old 06-22-2022, 03:09 PM   #20
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That Church needs to be exposed and out of business.
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Old 06-22-2022, 03:14 PM   #21
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Check the signature…Was the buyers agent Patrice Colors?

There is a cap on donation amount write off anyhow. 250k donation wont be 250k tax write off. Theyre looking to screw you, general market purchasers, local government, state government, and federal government.

Its unethical not to report them.
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Old 06-22-2022, 03:27 PM   #22
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I would need a lot more info before I started nailing anyone to the cross.

Maybe property is listed at $850k but they have offers higher than list price. Maybe as much as $1M, not uncommon in this market. Church offers $750k and hopes seller is a nice guy and will donate the rest. If so, they can give him a form 8283 for the other $250K Doesn't mean he can deduct all of it.
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Old 06-22-2022, 03:37 PM   #23
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Need an investigation.
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Old 06-22-2022, 03:38 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Hoggslayer View Post
I would need a lot more info before I started nailing anyone to the cross.

Maybe property is listed at $850k but they have offers higher than list price. Maybe as much as $1M, not uncommon in this market. Church offers $750k and hopes seller is a nice guy and will donate the rest. If so, they can give him a form 8283 for the other $250K Doesn't mean he can deduct all of it.
I'm in the don't need anymore information camp. :-). Start nailing.
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Old 06-22-2022, 03:55 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Aggiehunter08 View Post
That Church needs to be exposed and out of business.
And therein lies the problem, this church and many like it have adopted 5the mentality of a for profit business as concerned with the bottom line or maybe more so than the community they serve
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Old 06-22-2022, 04:29 PM   #26
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Yes!!
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Old 06-22-2022, 04:38 PM   #27
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And therein lies the problem, this church and many like it have adopted 5the mentality of a for profit business as concerned with the bottom line or maybe more so than the community they serve
No doubt there are some out there that fit your discretion. But there are also a lot that are very community minded.

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Old 06-22-2022, 04:39 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoggslayer View Post
I would need a lot more info before I started nailing anyone to the cross.

Maybe property is listed at $850k but they have offers higher than list price. Maybe as much as $1M, not uncommon in this market. Church offers $750k and hopes seller is a nice guy and will donate the rest. If so, they can give him a form 8283 for the other $250K Doesn't mean he can deduct all of it.
I'm certainly not trying to absolve either party, but I would agree with this. As a commercial appraiser who does donation appraisals, I would imagine that there is quite a bit more to the story or at least additional facts (including an appraisal) that would help us all to understand the situation better. The simplicity of the original post many have allowed some of us the room to make unfair judgments (especially about the church).

This is referred to as a "Bargain Sale to a Charitable Organization" in case anyone wants to research it.
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Old 06-22-2022, 04:41 PM   #29
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I suppose that it would be legal if the sales price was reported at $850,000. The donation could be entered in the settlement papers as a $250K credit to the buyer, leaving $600K plus other misc. closing costs due on the bottom line. I'm no tax attorney or CPA, just saying that if the deal is clearly documented and agreed to, it is none of the IRS's business. It is really no different than the church paying full price and then the guy makes a $250K donation after funding. What would be problematic is if the guy reported the sale at $600K and then claimed a $250K donation without the church having a $250K deposit to verify the receipt.

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Old 06-22-2022, 04:56 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate Riley View Post
I'm certainly not trying to absolve either party, but I would agree with this. As a commercial appraiser who does donation appraisals, I would imagine that there is quite a bit more to the story or at least additional facts (including an appraisal) that would help us all to understand the situation better. The simplicity of the original post many have allowed some of us the room to make unfair judgments (especially about the church).



This is referred to as a "Bargain Sale to a Charitable Organization" in case anyone wants to research it.
Research? No fun in finding out the facts around here. Everything is a conspiracy. Haven't you figured that out.

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Old 06-22-2022, 04:58 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by 60 Deluxe View Post
I suppose that it would be legal if the sales price was reported at $850,000. The donation could be entered in the settlement papers as a $250K credit to the buyer, leaving $600K plus other misc. closing costs due on the bottom line. I'm no tax attorney or CPA, just saying that if the deal is clearly documented and agreed to, it is none of the IRS's business. It is really no different than the church paying full price and then the guy makes a $250K donation after funding. What would be problematic is if the guy reported the sale at $600K and then claimed a $250K donation without the church having a $250K deposit to verify the receipt.
The donation would be the difference between the sale price and the "fair market value". The settlement statement would cover the agreed upon sale price, as normal. The fair market value is established by the seller, normally/frequently documented with an appraisal, when "doing" their taxes.
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Old 06-22-2022, 05:37 PM   #32
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It’s stealing money from the thieves in Government who steal it from us.
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Old 06-22-2022, 06:30 PM   #33
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That Church needs to be exposed and out of business.

Truth!


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Old 06-22-2022, 06:54 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate Riley View Post
I'm certainly not trying to absolve either party, but I would agree with this. As a commercial appraiser who does donation appraisals, I would imagine that there is quite a bit more to the story or at least additional facts (including an appraisal) that would help us all to understand the situation better. The simplicity of the original post many have allowed some of us the room to make unfair judgments (especially about the church).

This is referred to as a "Bargain Sale to a Charitable Organization" in case anyone wants to research it.

The property will appraise at $1M. The seller is listing at 850k for a quick sale. The church is saying they will give him 750k and a receipt for 250k as a donation if it appraises for 1M. He actually said “we will give you more if it appraises for more.”

He was only asking $850. If he takes the deal he would only be donating $100k regardless of what it appraised at.


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Old 06-22-2022, 09:00 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by FLASH_OUTDOORS View Post
The property will appraise at $1M. The seller is listing at 850k for a quick sale. The church is saying they will give him 750k and a receipt for 250k as a donation if it appraises for 1M. He actually said “we will give you more if it appraises for more.”

He was only asking $850. If he takes the deal he would only be donating $100k regardless of what it appraised at.


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But if the appraised value is $1m he is allowed to claim that value for the purpose of donation evaluations. It doesn't sound like the church is doing anything wrong to me.

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Old 06-22-2022, 09:16 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLASH_OUTDOORS View Post
The property will appraise at $1M. The seller is listing at 850k for a quick sale. The church is saying they will give him 750k and a receipt for 250k as a donation if it appraises for 1M. He actually said “we will give you more if it appraises for more.”

He was only asking $850. If he takes the deal he would only be donating $100k regardless of what it appraised at.


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Initially I was ready to get out the torch and pitch fork. But this is a different situation. Sounds like a gift of equity and would be above board in that case.
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Old 06-22-2022, 09:37 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Hoggslayer View Post
But if the appraised value is $1m he is allowed to claim that value for the purpose of donation evaluations. It doesn't sound like the church is doing anything wrong to me.

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What I don’t get is he was only asking $850k. He technically only gave them a gift of 100k. But because it will appraise at 1M or more he could be given a gift receipt for 250-400k depending on appraisal????

He could technically be making more money by selling to this church than if someone would have just bought it at asking price……..


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Old 06-22-2022, 10:02 PM   #38
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Typical!!!
Open mouth insert foot!
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Old 06-22-2022, 10:07 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by FLASH_OUTDOORS View Post
What I don’t get is he was only asking $850k. He technically only gave them a gift of 100k. But because it will appraise at 1M or more he could be given a gift receipt for 250-400k depending on appraisal????

He could technically be making more money by selling to this church than if someone would have just bought it at asking price……..


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Sounds to me like the church is being a good steward and looking out for the best interest of their neighbor.

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Old 06-22-2022, 10:07 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLASH_OUTDOORS View Post
The property will appraise at $1M. The seller is listing at 850k for a quick sale. The church is saying they will give him 750k and a receipt for 250k as a donation if it appraises for 1M. He actually said “we will give you more if it appraises for more.”

He was only asking $850. If he takes the deal he would only be donating $100k regardless of what it appraised at.


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And that is the additional information we need.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoggslayer View Post
But if the appraised value is $1m he is allowed to claim that value for the purpose of donation evaluations. It doesn't sound like the church is doing anything wrong to me.

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Nobody is doing anything wrong here. All parties are following the letter of the law for IRS purposes. (I'm not sure he even needs a receipt from the Church, but I'm not an accountant just a real estate guy.)

In the end, the seller will still lose real money below the $850,000 he was asking. Depending on his tax bracket, the sale price plus tax savings would probably be $800,000 to $825,000.
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Old 06-23-2022, 06:13 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate Riley View Post
In the end, the seller will still lose real money below the $850,000 he was asking. Depending on his tax bracket, the sale price plus tax savings would probably be $800,000 to $825,000.



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Old 06-23-2022, 07:11 AM   #42
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[QUOTE=FLASH_OUTDOORS;16270977]What I don’t get is he was only asking $850k. He technically only gave them a gift of 100k. But because it will appraise at 1M or more he could be given a gift receipt for 250-400k depending on appraisal???

People sell houses all the time above asking price. Asking price does not determine actual market value.
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Old 06-23-2022, 07:27 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLASH_OUTDOORS View Post
What I don’t get is he was only asking $850k. He technically only gave them a gift of 100k. But because it will appraise at 1M or more he could be given a gift receipt for 250-400k depending on appraisal????

He could technically be making more money by selling to this church than if someone would have just bought it at asking price……..


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The write off isn't a dollar for dollar chunk of money. I only know this because we did something similar, on a much smaller scale.

The reality is he is getting $750,000 when asking $850,000, and he needs to run the extra $250,000 through his tax guy to see where he would actually end up at with the donation.

I don't see the church doing anything wrong in this situation. I would argue it's one of the bargaining chips we, as a society, have afforded a church/religion because most are run on shoestring budgets.
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Old 06-23-2022, 08:26 AM   #44
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Discounting goods/services and receiving charitable tax credits is a very common practice in the non profit sector.

Nothing shady about it as long as the accounting is done in a lawful manner.
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Old 06-23-2022, 08:32 AM   #45
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Possible Fraud and tax evasion on the "extra" donation - depending on how numbers work out
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Old 06-23-2022, 08:46 AM   #46
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Possible Fraud and tax evasion on the "extra" donation - depending on how numbers work out
Not if the property appraises at or above the value. Everyone put down the pitchforks and shovels.
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Old 06-23-2022, 09:01 AM   #47
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" The truth hurts."
Sorry you got your pantyies in a wad?
Churches are a business, small or large like a mega church. Put your foot in your mouth. There are two sides to every story or haven't you figured that out!
Rant on, you know how it is.
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Old 06-23-2022, 09:18 AM   #48
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On its surface to me it seems a little unethical. I don't know anything about this kind of thing. I don't know how much benefit this would be to the seller. Also, I don't know whether this is legitimate or legal transaction.

For me, I would need to know a lot more before I could give an opinion. I'm not sure I would have a problem with it if the IRS and real estate laws allowed it. I would hope the Church would know that this is on the up and up before they made this kind of an offer. I know my church wouldn't make such an offer if it wasn't ethical and legal to do so.
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Old 06-23-2022, 09:57 AM   #49
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The original scenario in post #1 is certainly stated in a way that makes the transaction seem shady. Oftentimes such a 'scenario' is the end result of what has been passed along from one to another to another so that the real situation is lost.
From personal experience, I can explain how such a transaction can actually take place regardless how those on the outside may end up putting together their version after hearing a portion of the facts.
My church was interested in a parcel for a new multi-site. There were approx. 12 acres (a 10 acre tract and a 2 acre tract). The price was higher than we felt we could pay. Our real estate expert (a former Elder at our church) met with and got to know some things about the owners. From that meeting, we discovered the owner was selling another piece of property elsewhere and would have to realize a large gain. We worked out a deal to pay less than the owner wanted for all 12 acres for the 10 acre tract and, after he checked out our church (beliefs, ministries, etc.) and after he got an appraisal for the 2 acre tract, he would donate that tract to us.
In the end, we got the entire 12-acre parcel for what we thought we could pay. He netted the same benefit from selling part to us and donating the rest to go against the large gain he had to realize.
Nothing was done in an underhanded way; nothing hidden from anyone; each party benefitted.
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Old 06-23-2022, 04:08 PM   #50
RR 314
Pope & Young
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoggslayer View Post
Not if the property appraises at or above the value. Everyone put down the pitchforks and shovels.
Appraisal after K execution is of limited import to the fact pattern posed. Pick up the pitchforks again!
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