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Old 09-06-2021, 05:45 PM   #1
GreenZ
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My wife found this point in the water at Matagorda beach. This is the first one she has found and was very excited! Can yíall give me info on this point?







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Old 09-06-2021, 05:47 PM   #2
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Wow cool find

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Old 09-06-2021, 05:52 PM   #3
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That's pretty cool finding a arrow head along the coast. Then it's a very nice one. I have seen pictures of arrow heads some guys have found along Texas shorelines, they were all very small. Finding one that size in that area is surprising.
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Old 09-06-2021, 05:55 PM   #4
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That's pretty cool finding a arrow head along the coast. Then it's a very nice one. I have seen pictures of arrow heads some guys have found along Texas shorelines, they were all very small. Finding one that size in that area is surprising.
Thatís what my uncle said. They find small ones all the time.
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Old 09-06-2021, 06:01 PM   #5
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Great find. That probably came from central Texas and maybe traded with some Karankao local.
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Old 09-06-2021, 06:06 PM   #6
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great find. That probably came from central texas and maybe traded with some karankao local.
smh
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Old 09-06-2021, 06:06 PM   #7
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Looks to be a knife!
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Old 09-06-2021, 09:47 PM   #8
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Great find. That probably came from central Texas and maybe traded with some Karankao local.
Huh?
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Old 09-07-2021, 09:52 AM   #9
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Huh?
Maybe he meant Karankawa, Idk.
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Old 09-07-2021, 10:03 AM   #10
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Could you post pics of the base? Cant tell is some is missing. At any rate, its thousands of years old. I might do better with Id after seeing the bottom better.
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Old 09-07-2021, 10:06 AM   #11
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Maybe he meant Karankawa, Idk.
My understanding is that the Karankawa used very few tools, and were pretty much naked. The other indians called them "children", because they were so primitive. My guess is that is an archaic point.
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Old 09-07-2021, 10:11 AM   #12
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My understanding is that the Karankawa used very few tools, and were pretty much naked. The other indians called them "children", because they were so primitive. My guess is that is an archaic point.
This point is thousands of years older than known tribes.
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Old 09-07-2021, 10:13 AM   #13
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Could you post pics of the base? Cant tell is some is missing. At any rate, its thousands of years old. I might do better with Id after seeing the bottom better.
I will try to get a pic of the base when I get home.
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Old 09-07-2021, 10:25 AM   #14
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This point is thousands of years older than known tribes.
Wow that is amazing. But can you still date it to persons of a certain era?
For instance when you guys reference the Clovis people?
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Old 09-07-2021, 10:48 AM   #15
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Wow that is amazing. But can you still date it to persons of a certain era?
For instance when you guys reference the Clovis people?
It is not Clovis. If the base is intact I probably can.i am pretty sure what it is right now.
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Old 09-07-2021, 10:50 AM   #16
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It is not Clovis. If the base is intact I probably can.i am pretty sure what it is right now.
In for the answer......................
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Old 09-07-2021, 10:57 AM   #17
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Maybe he meant Karankawa, Idk.
you are right on the spelling, beer don't help my spelling for sure. What I meant to say was that the point wasn't made here on the coast but somewhere in central Texas and transported to the coast.

And, the Karankawas MADE very few tools since there is virtually zero material for points. What they did use was sharpened sticks. imagine going alligator hunting with a sharpen stick. They were tough people, mosquitos woulda killed me.
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Old 09-07-2021, 10:57 AM   #18
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Lol. Think about this, is it possible that the point wasn’t traded/lost somewhere on that beach from a recent Indian tribe or might it have washed up on the beach from an ancient hunting ground maybe a mile(s) offshore which is now covered in water?
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Old 09-07-2021, 11:08 AM   #19
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Hey really cool find. It's a knife blade. Hard to date exactly but it's old, pre white man I think. Great patina on that one glad she rescued it from the sun.
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Old 09-07-2021, 11:30 AM   #20
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They were tough people, mosquitos woulda killed me.
I believe they coated theirselves in mud to deal with the mosquito's. Everything i read about them said they smelled absolutely awful.
Me and my wife purchased some land in Port Lavaca that apparently had some of the last concentrations of them before they were slaughtered after being forced from San-Felipe area.
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Old 09-07-2021, 11:32 AM   #21
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I heard they covered themselves with mud as well as animal fat and that one could smell an encampment from a long way off. Maybe it was the original birth control.
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Old 09-07-2021, 11:34 AM   #22
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I heard they covered themselves with mud as well as animal fat and that one could smell an encampment from a long way off. Maybe it was the original birth control.
Alligator fat to be exact.
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Old 09-07-2021, 11:45 AM   #23
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Lol. Think about this, is it possible that the point wasnít traded/lost somewhere on that beach from a recent Indian tribe or might it have washed up on the beach from an ancient hunting ground maybe a mile(s) offshore which is now covered in water?
Absolutely this. They have found a ton of Clovis points that washed up on McFadden beach that were from camps miles offshore now.

The sea has been rising for at least 60,000 years. They found a preserved ancient cypress forest 10 miles off the Alabama coast after Hurricane Ivan stirred up the bottom and uncovered it.
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Old 09-07-2021, 12:16 PM   #24
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In for Steve's answer.

Cool find.
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Old 09-07-2021, 12:22 PM   #25
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Amazing that a brittle piece of chert rock could survive that many thousands of years in one piece after it has already been beat on and flaked into that thin shape.
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Old 09-07-2021, 05:25 PM   #26
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Absolutely this. They have found a ton of Clovis points that washed up on McFadden beach that were from camps miles offshore now.

The sea has been rising for at least 60,000 years. They found a preserved ancient cypress forest 10 miles off the Alabama coast after Hurricane Ivan stirred up the bottom and uncovered it.
Yep, gives me something to do when I set my bull red lines out on McFadden. Thatís neat about the cypress forest, Iím going to have to read up on that.
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Old 09-07-2021, 05:45 PM   #27
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Donít know if these pics will help, but it looks like the base is missing.









Thanks for all the replies so far


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Old 09-07-2021, 06:41 PM   #28
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Kinda hard to tell since missing most of the base but how bout an early archaic lanceolate blade, Angostura?
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Old 09-07-2021, 06:55 PM   #29
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Kinda hard to tell since missing most of the base but how bout an early archaic lanceolate blade, Angostura?
Dead on for my thoughts. Missing diagnostic piece off base but everything us right fir ango. 9000ish years old
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Old 09-07-2021, 06:57 PM   #30
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Bernadel grew up with them...........

Cool find................
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Old 09-07-2021, 07:50 PM   #31
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Dead on for my thoughts. Missing diagnostic piece off base but everything us right fir ango. 9000ish years old
Iím not an artifact guy, but it sure is cool to think about it, understanding the time frame (thatís a long time). Any thoughts on how it was on a shell pad in the wade gut of the Gulf?
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Old 09-07-2021, 07:53 PM   #32
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9000ish….that’s crazy…
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Old 09-07-2021, 08:00 PM   #33
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Bernadel grew up with them...........

Cool find................
I hope itís not the one heís been looking for. I wouldnít want to be in possession of it when he comes to get it back. He is a determined gentleman.
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Old 09-07-2021, 08:04 PM   #34
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I hope itís not the one heís been looking for. I wouldnít want to be in possession of it when he comes to get it back. He is a determined gentleman.
It was only a prototype, his second.
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Old 09-07-2021, 09:03 PM   #35
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Dead on for my thoughts. Missing diagnostic piece off base but everything us right fir ango. 9000ish years old
Thats amazing. Is there a prominent group around that area 9,000 years ago? Ango just comes up as anglo on the google machine.
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Old 09-07-2021, 09:30 PM   #36
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My wife found an Angostura about 8 years ago, perfect shape, not broke. It was our first screen dig and we got to the site early. While waiting for the guy to show, my wife goes to a huge pile of screened dirt and sees this piece of stone sticking out. It was the Ango and someone screening previously missed it. That's the day I found an awesome Kerrville knife. Man, I miss digging.
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Old 09-08-2021, 03:52 PM   #37
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I’m not an artifact guy, but it sure is cool to think about it, understanding the time frame (that’s a long time). Any thoughts on how it was on a shell pad in the wade gut of the Gulf?
Absolutely. Angostura cultures regularly dwelled along the coast. Many ango knives have been found in massive piles of shells called shell middens. Tip wear indicates they were often used to shuck oysters. Actually that one shows a little twist wear on the tip as well. You likely found it on an eroded shell midden.

Last edited by GarGuy; 09-08-2021 at 04:05 PM.
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Old 09-08-2021, 03:54 PM   #38
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These are a few I found in Houston co.
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Old 09-08-2021, 03:59 PM   #39
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Absolutely. Angostura cultures regularly dwelled along the coast. Many ango knives have been found in massive piles of shells called shell middens. Tip wear indicates they were often used to shock oysters. Actually that one shows a little twist wear on the tip as well. You likely found it on an eroded shell midden.
Wow, that is good to know. I know of a few likely spots on the other side of Christmas Bay. Where did they get the material?
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Old 09-08-2021, 04:00 PM   #40
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Unfortunately, when they went to all of the trouble of knapping points and tools like that, they didn't discard unbroken ones willingly. Most of the broken ones were reworked into other points or tools. Think about how much easier it is to knap one surface rather than starting from scratch with a core. Supposedly, some tribes didn't recover points from animal carcasses, because of some spiritual taboo, which explains some of the pristine points people find.
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Old 09-08-2021, 04:01 PM   #41
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These are a few I found in Houston co.
Those are gorgeous!
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Old 09-08-2021, 04:10 PM   #42
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Wow, that is good to know. I know of a few likely spots on the other side of Christmas Bay. Where did they get the material?
That material is Edward's chert. The source is central Texas but the Colorado river tumble an enormous amount of Edward's cobble way south. Likely the material came out of the river.
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Old 09-08-2021, 04:17 PM   #43
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See that tip damage? That is not the result of an impact. It is the result of sticking it in a tight spot and twisting .... like on an oyster shell.
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Old 09-08-2021, 08:10 PM   #44
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See that tip damage? That is not the result of an impact. It is the result of sticking it in a tight spot and twisting .... like on an oyster shell.
How cool is that? Thanks for all the info. I started to research a little bit and learned some, but itís definitely an information overload. Thanks again!
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Old 09-09-2021, 05:49 PM   #45
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Iím not an artifact guy, but it sure is cool to think about it, understanding the time frame (thatís a long time). Any thoughts on how it was on a shell pad in the wade gut of the Gulf?
That was no shell pad in the gulf 9000 years ago. See this map for estimated sea levels during that period.

https://www.texasbeyondhistory.net/m...s/Shore2a.html
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Old 09-09-2021, 06:57 PM   #46
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These are a few I found in Houston co.
Very interesting info about those beautiful knives. Thanks for posting about it.
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Old 09-09-2021, 09:32 PM   #47
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Super cool
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Old 09-09-2021, 09:49 PM   #48
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That was no shell pad in the gulf 9000 years ago. See this map for estimated sea levels during that period.

https://www.texasbeyondhistory.net/m...s/Shore2a.html
Once again, dead on
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