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    #16
    I saw the 4 tiered grading approach where I think a firearm can’t have more than 8 points. Seemed unnecessarily restrictive, but it was at least a basis. I don’t know if that was just proposed or if that is what they are going on now.


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      #17
      This is correct except it’s 4 points. Here is how fun it is. If you have a gun with backup sites OR NO SIRES AT ALL that’s 1 point already.

      Every stipulation is also very subjective

      Originally posted by txpitdog View Post
      I saw the 4 tiered grading approach where I think a firearm can’t have more than 8 points. Seemed unnecessarily restrictive, but it was at least a basis. I don’t know if that was just proposed or if that is what they are going on now.


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        #18
        Here is an example one is legal pistol one is an SBR. Top is legal bottom go to jail.




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          #19
          The ATF dealing with private citizens at all is complete BS. It no different than OSHA showing up at your house when you’re using a drill without safety glasses, gloves, and steel toed boots.

          They should only deal with FFL holders and manufacturers (to check that they are following the laws correctly, not to harass them), and to fight organized crime.

          Enforcement of laws to private citizens should be under the jurisdiction of local LEO’s, and most of them won’t mess with this crap.

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            #20
            Originally posted by gatorgrizz27 View Post
            The ATF dealing with private citizens at all is complete BS. It no different than OSHA showing up at your house when you’re using a drill without safety glasses, gloves, and steel toed boots.

            They should only deal with FFL holders and manufacturers (to check that they are following the laws correctly, not to harass them), and to fight organized crime.

            Enforcement of laws to private citizens should be under the jurisdiction of local LEO’s, and most of them won’t mess with this crap.
            Word

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              #21
              Originally posted by scott.str View Post
              Here is an example one is legal pistol one is an SBR. Top is legal bottom go to jail.




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              Tbh, I really can’t tell the difference between the 2. Seems like splitting hairs to me.

              And let’s all be honest here, screw the ATF. Who’s going to enforce this? We all deal with the Game Warden or local Sheriffs, personally I don’t think they are going to care, much less break out the tape measure. I’d like to know how many private citizens have had run ins with the ATF.

              A “law” is only as good as the enforcement. Especially if it’s a federal agency who changes their opinion like their underwear. They can **** off.


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                #22
                Originally posted by 4Christ View Post
                Tbh, I really can’t tell the difference between the 2. Seems like splitting hairs to me.

                And let’s all be honest here, screw the ATF. Who’s going to enforce this? We all deal with the Game Warden or local Sheriffs, personally I don’t think they are going to care, much less break out the tape measure. I’d like to know how many private citizens have had run ins with the ATF.

                A “law” is only as good as the enforcement. Especially if it’s a federal agency who changes their opinion like their underwear. They can **** off.


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                That’s true, but it’s a real issue when nobody really knows how to get a straight answer as to if it’s legal or not.

                The majority of LEO’s seem to support the 2nd amendment but aren’t really “gun guys” that keep up with stuff like this. If it seems suspect, they are likely to call a supervisor or someone to get an answer. None of them want to be on the hook for having stopped you with an illegal AR pistol, letting you go, and you shoot up the HEB next week.

                A buddy had this happen with an unserialized firearm built from a kit. In Texas, you’re required to notify them when stopped if you have a handgun in the vehicle as well. For the “well then don’t break the law” crowd, I was pulled over “accidentally” on the interstate a couple months back.

                Guy came up to my window and said “Sorry, I ran your tag wrong and it showed a warrant. You didn’t do anything wrong. I just need to run your ID and you’re free to go.”

                If they choose to prosecute it as a felony it’s a different game than the punishment being having to pay the $200 tax stamp.

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                  #23
                  Originally posted by okrattler View Post
                  So what do they expect a person to do if they bought it legally? There's no way that people are going to turn theirs in. There's no proof of who bought what if they didn't have to get approved to buy a pistol brace. That'd be like outlawing Pepsi or somethin. Who all has Pepsi in their home? Well.....a lot of people. If you catch them drinking one in public they'd be in trouble but aside from that how will you know who's a Pepsi drinker? It makes no sense to criminalize people after you've sold hundreds of thousands of these things. Kinda makes it hard to get them all back I would think. But what do I know?

                  People are still going to own them. They probably just ain't gonna take those guns out to the public range.
                  Completely true, you can keep whatever you want in your safe with little chance of problems. However, if you live in town and are worried about driving it to the ranch to hog hunt with, take a carbine class with it, or let your kids shoot it at the range, do you still really “have it?”

                  That’s the major issue with people not fighting to stop these laws, they just talk about sticking them in their attic or burying them out in the yard as if that means they’ve “won.”

                  Also, with Biden trying to make the ATF his private gestapo, it’s highly likely that you could get a knock on your door if you’ve bought a pistol brace online right from a gun shop with a credit card.

                  They have already been doing this to people that have bought the lightening links, solvent traps, and polymer 80 kits, it’s not tinfoil speculation.

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by scott.str View Post
                    This is correct except it’s 4 points. Here is how fun it is. If you have a gun with backup sites OR NO SIRES AT ALL that’s 1 point already.



                    Every stipulation is also very subjective
                    So a pistol (like glock 17 plain Jane pistol) with an optic and suppressor sights gets a point?

                    As for LE not knowing guns. In a unit of roughly 20 investigators, there are 2 guys who get called upon when it comes to guns. Me and one other guy. Most others know enough to get their duty weapon loaded and shot. Thats it. Some can barely do that

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                      #25
                      Originally posted by gatorgrizz27 View Post
                      That’s true, but it’s a real issue when nobody really knows how to get a straight answer as to if it’s legal or not.

                      The majority of LEO’s seem to support the 2nd amendment but aren’t really “gun guys” that keep up with stuff like this. If it seems suspect, they are likely to call a supervisor or someone to get an answer. None of them want to be on the hook for having stopped you with an illegal AR pistol, letting you go, and you shoot up the HEB next week.

                      A buddy had this happen with an unserialized firearm built from a kit. In Texas, you’re required to notify them when stopped if you have a handgun in the vehicle as well. For the “well then don’t break the law” crowd, I was pulled over “accidentally” on the interstate a couple months back.

                      Guy came up to my window and said “Sorry, I ran your tag wrong and it showed a warrant. You didn’t do anything wrong. I just need to run your ID and you’re free to go.”

                      If they choose to prosecute it as a felony it’s a different game than the punishment being having to pay the $200 tax stamp.

                      I’m not familiar with a duty to disclose that you have a handgun in the vehicle.

                      Can you reference a statute in the penal code for this?

                      I have never disclosed this and have never been asked.


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                        #26
                        Originally posted by Quackerbox View Post
                        So a pistol (like glock 17 plain Jane pistol) with an optic and suppressor sights gets a point?

                        As for LE not knowing guns. In a unit of roughly 20 investigators, there are 2 guys who get called upon when it comes to guns. Me and one other guy. Most others know enough to get their duty weapon loaded and shot. Thats it. Some can barely do that

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                        I would assume if it doesn’t have a brace of some kind it wouldn’t apply.


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                          #27
                          Originally posted by Mike D View Post
                          I’m not familiar with a duty to disclose that you have a handgun in the vehicle.

                          Can you reference a statute in the penal code for this?

                          I have never disclosed this and have never been asked.


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                          Section 411.205



                          Technically it reads “on your person” not “in your vehicle”. When I lived in TX and was reading up on the CHL laws it looked like it was usually interpreted as if you had a handgun in the vehicle you were required to notify them.

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                            #28
                            Originally posted by Quackerbox View Post
                            So a pistol (like glock 17 plain Jane pistol) with an optic and suppressor sights gets a point?

                            As for LE not knowing guns. In a unit of roughly 20 investigators, there are 2 guys who get called upon when it comes to guns. Me and one other guy. Most others know enough to get their duty weapon loaded and shot. Thats it. Some can barely do that

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                            No kidding. When we teach at the Police Academy, sometimes half of the cadets have never even fired a weapon of any type and never learn more than their duty weapon… maybe.

                            Before I retired, I was the gun guy on a couple of shifts.

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                              #29
                              Originally posted by gatorgrizz27 View Post
                              Section 411.205



                              Technically it reads “on your person” not “in your vehicle”. When I lived in TX and was reading up on the CHL laws it looked like it was usually interpreted as if you had a handgun in the vehicle you were required to notify them.
                              The law says on or about your person. The phrase “or about your person” merely means in the area. If it is in your vehicle, it is about your person.

                              If the law required it to be on your person only, why would they even add the phrase “or about”?

                              In Christian v. State (Texas Court of Criminal Appeals which is the Supreme Court for Texas criminal law) it clearly states that inside the passenger compartment is “or about” your person. This is a quote from that caselaw, “this Court's recognition that "on or about [the] person" extends to cover at least the interior of an automobile, see Courtney v. State”. So you can see that or about your personal covers “at least” the interior of your vehicle. That means it probably leaves open areas that might not be in the interior of your vehicle. I can only guess but if you saw the police walking up and tossed your handgun outside the car, it might still be on or about your person but that might be for a different discussion.

                              In Courtney v. State which Christian cites, The gun was found on the floorboard and this was found to comply with the phrase “or about your person”.

                              Secondly, the section you cited is for a person with an LTC only. That is a duty to display your LTC and I believe they removed the penalty for failing to comply. In other words it is technically a law but there is nothing they can do if you do not comply.

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                                #30
                                Honestly I’m not sure because the paperwork makes no sense. I think a Thompson center pistol with sights and a bi pod is now an SBR under this law. It’s just confusing specifically when they said a year ago putting a brace to your shoulder isn’t turning the pistol into an SBR. Also no idea how they can take accessories into account making it an SBR. The gun is either an SBR or not as it functions not what accessory you have on it.


                                Originally posted by Quackerbox View Post
                                So a pistol (like glock 17 plain Jane pistol) with an optic and suppressor sights gets a point?

                                As for LE not knowing guns. In a unit of roughly 20 investigators, there are 2 guys who get called upon when it comes to guns. Me and one other guy. Most others know enough to get their duty weapon loaded and shot. Thats it. Some can barely do that

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