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Old 10-10-2018, 05:46 AM   #101
Acameron52
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Ha, heís welcome to try.
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Old 10-10-2018, 05:47 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by Chance Love View Post
Like I said, definitions can vary.

There is ALWAYS a cost somewhere. And NOTHING provided by the government is free.

No, K-12 is not free to the end user. Like you said, it IS paid for by our tax dollars. Now, little Timmy and Suzy may not realize it is costing them anything, but what could their parents have bought for them with that $7,000 they had to spend on those school taxes? And how many fundraisers do schools have each year to continue to provide our kids with this "free" education"?

Same with Medicare. It is paid for by someone. Nothing is free.

I said above that my and your tax dollars might pay to keep the k-12 education running but how man millions of children have parents that do not work, have never worked and those children's grandparents have never worked?
Additionally, so what if a kid's parents make a combined $40k per year. How much of those taxes (probably is guess $4k for the year) will go to paying for their kids public school education?

The united states is bigger than Texas please remember that and folks do things differently outside of here.
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Old 10-10-2018, 07:10 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by Artos View Post
Mega Special Stupid like a fox...free college means more lefty profs to push the said lefty agenda. Just a TROLL trolling!!
So conservatives should stop going to college because leftist professors are brainwashing conservative students in Microbiology classes.

How backwards can you be to not want your entire citizenry to be as educated (even at PhD level) as possible?

This is bizzaro world to me.
An entire internet forum filled with folks who shun formalized education. Just really strange.
I take it very few here have love for the arts.
I guess if you're not discussing mixing kool-aid and jello with your pea gravel then most aren't interested.

There is a stereotype that conservatives are dumb bubbas and that they shun education and all they want to do is cling to their guns and ask "age & score".

I fail to understand why so many refuse to have has an educated citizenry as possible even if the entire country pays for it.

Dumb Americans.
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Old 10-10-2018, 07:43 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by texansfan View Post
So conservatives should stop going to college because leftist professors are brainwashing conservative students in Microbiology classes.

How backwards can you be to not want your entire citizenry to be as educated (even at PhD level) as possible?

This is bizzaro world to me.
An entire internet forum filled with folks who shun formalized education. Just really strange.
I take it very few here have love for the arts.
I guess if you're not discussing mixing kool-aid and jello with your pea gravel then most aren't interested.

There is a stereotype that conservatives are dumb bubbas and that they shun education and all they want to do is cling to their guns and ask "age & score".

I fail to understand why so many refuse to have has an educated citizenry as possible even if the entire country pays for it.

Dumb Americans.
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Old 10-10-2018, 08:01 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by texansfan View Post
How backwards can you be to not want your entire citizenry to be as educated (even at PhD level) as possible?
Soooooo.....an ENTIRE country of PhD level citizenry.....ok, I go t a question:

Q: Who will work at Mc Donald's, for minimum wage, with a PhD?
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Old 10-10-2018, 08:05 AM   #106
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????

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Originally Posted by Crazy Horse View Post
You didn't answer my question...you deflected it with another question that had nothing to do with what I asked...or maybe I wasn't clear or misunderstood you...


Q: WHY should I, via being taxed at a higher rate (I'll assume), be responsible to pay for someone's "free college"?


IMO, all you are doing is robbing Peter to pay Paul.
Correct, Paul might be better off with his "free college", but its at the expense of Peter's wallet. (You honestly think Peter likes that?)

I might sound like an azz, but I work to provide for MY FAMILY, not YOUR'S...
IMO, if you want a college education & can't afford it, take out a school loan....
I should NOT be responsible for keeping YOU debt free...


Q: Why not allow each tax payer to decide for themselves if they want to contribute to "free college" or not?

They can simple indicate in a box on their return if they want to be taxed higher to pay for said free program. Why force those not wanting to pay, to pay against their will? I mean, if its such a great idea, why would you worry about giving people the option; should be 90-100% enrollment, right?




I might be mistaken, but are we not already doing that now? (funding cancer research)

And I might be mistaken, but aren't those same researchers already college educated....but without the "free college" proposed?

Plus, are you saying that "free college" will make college graduates some how more intelligent than today's students?

I mean, wouldn't it make more sense to use that "free college" money for better cancer research, equipment, staff & technology?

Q: How exactly is "free college" going to cure cancer?
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Old 10-10-2018, 08:15 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by Crazy Horse View Post
Soooooo.....an ENTIRE country of PhD level citizenry.....ok, I go t a question:

Q: Who will work at Mc Donald's, for minimum wage, with a PhD?

https://www.monticello.org/site/jeff...ious-quotation
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Old 10-10-2018, 08:18 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by JLivi1224 View Post
This is absolutely spot on. Canít affird college? Get a loan or work two jobs like I did and pay for it yourself.

These big government proponents just donít get it. Why should my tax dollars pay to put anyone through college ?
Whatís your hard earned college degree with when everyone has one?
Answer: about what your high school diploma is worth.

Donít get me wrong - by no means is a college degree necessary to be very successful.

Those loans you got were subsidized by taxpayers.
So you didn't do it 100% without govt help
Did you go to a private school or state school?
That state school you went to is open and operating because of taxpayer dollars.
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Old 10-10-2018, 08:22 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by Crazy Horse View Post
You didn't answer my question...you deflected it with another question that had nothing

Q: WHY should I, via being taxed at a higher rate (I'll assume), be responsible to pay for someone's "free college"?


IMO, all you are doing is robbing Peter to pay Paul.
Correct, Paul might be better off with his "free college", but its at the expense of Peter's wallet. (You honestly think Peter likes that?)

I might sound like an azz, but I work to provide for MY FAMILY, not YOUR'S...
IMO, if you want a college education & can't afford it, take out a school loan....
I should NOT be responsible for keeping YOU debt free...


Q: Why not allow each tax payer to decide for themselves if they want to contribute to "free college" or not?

They can simple indicate in a box on their return if they want to be taxed higher to pay for said free program. Why force those not wanting to pay, to pay against their will? I mean, if its such a great idea, why would you worry about giving people the option; should be 90-100% enrollment, right?




I might be mistaken, but are we not already doing that now? (funding cancer research)

And I might be mistaken, but aren't those same researchers already college educated....but without the "free college" proposed?

Plus, are you saying that "free college" will make college graduates some how more intelligent than today's students?

I mean, wouldn't it make more sense to use that "free college" money for better cancer research, equipment, staff & technology?

Q: How exactly is "free college" going to cure cancer?
1. I answered your question

2. You're already paying for everyone's college education that's how UT and TamU doors are open.

Tax dollars pay for that school and even more tax dollars help subsidize student loans so they can pay tuition.


I'll leave it alone but if y'all don't think having the most educated citizens ON A WHOLE in the world in our country then you have not studied the mindsets of the founding fathers.

Let me go back to mixing pea gravel in this mineral lick.
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Old 10-10-2018, 08:23 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by texansfan View Post
Those loans you got were subsidized by taxpayers.
So you didn't do it 100% without govt help
Did you go to a private school or state school?
That state school you went to is open and operating because of taxpayer dollars.
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Old 10-10-2018, 08:27 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by texansfan View Post
So conservatives should stop going to college because leftist professors are brainwashing conservative students in Microbiology classes.

How backwards can you be to not want your entire citizenry to be as educated (even at PhD level) as possible?

This is bizzaro world to me.
An entire internet forum filled with folks who shun formalized education. Just really strange.
I take it very few here have love for the arts.
I guess if you're not discussing mixing kool-aid and jello with your pea gravel then most aren't interested.

There is a stereotype that conservatives are dumb bubbas and that they shun education and all they want to do is cling to their guns and ask "age & score".

I fail to understand why so many refuse to have has an educated citizenry as possible even if the entire country pays for it.

Dumb Americans.
Why should it be our responsibility to pay even higher taxes in order for us to pay for your college?
So if you don’t become a doctor who changes the world, but instead still flips burgers with our degree, do we get a refund ?

What this “entire Internet forum is full of” is constitutional conservatives who believe in limited government and despise the bs overreach that you advocate for.

You should consider finding another Internet forum of like minded individuals as yourself. You wouldn’t have to listen to the drivel of we gun clinging, bible toting Bubbas.
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Old 10-10-2018, 08:38 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by texansfan View Post
What is the point of this link?
It's a fake quote attributed to Jefferson & has repeatedly been debunked by scholors.
Sir, the website in your link even claims the quote was not made by Jefferson.
So again, what was the point of linking to a fake quote, if not just for posturing?

Plus, you have to please stop hand picking quotes/statements to support your narratives...

Quote:
An educated citizenry is a vital requisite for our survival as a free people.
What Jefferson ACTUALLY said was:
Quote:
"Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone. The people themselves, therefore, are its only safe depositories. And to render even them safe, their minds must be improved to a certain degree." --Thomas Jefferson
Quote:
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." --Thomas Jefferson
Quote:
"The mass of our citizens may be divided into two classes -- the laboring and the learned. The laboring will need the first grade of education to qualify them for their pursuits and duties; the learned will need it as a foundation for further acquirements." --Thomas Jefferson
Quote:
"I do most anxiously wish to see the highest degrees of education given to the higher degrees of genius and to all degrees of it, so much as may enable them to read and understand what is going on in the world and to keep their part of it going on right; for nothing can keep it right but their own vigilant and distrustful superintendence." --Thomas Jefferson
What Jefferson was discussing, was EVERY citizen should be "educated" against TYRANNY; ie King George & the like...
NOT that every citizen should be educated with "free college"....

In short, the very man you are misquoting, is 100% against what you are attempting to promote....
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Old 10-10-2018, 09:21 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by texansfan View Post
Those loans you got were subsidized by taxpayers.
So you didn't do it 100% without govt help
Did you go to a private school or state school?
That state school you went to is open and operating because of taxpayer dollars.
Reading comprehension. I worked two jobs and put myself through college. Itís doable, you just have to want it bad enough.
You keep making correlations that are ridiculous. I have no issue with my taxpayer dollars helping to maintain and operate state schools. Those who want to go to state schools can do it the way I did. INDIVIDUAL ACCOUNTABILITY and INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY. These notions are lost in todayís society due to people who think like you.
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Old 10-10-2018, 09:46 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by JLivi1224 View Post
Reading comprehension. I worked two jobs and put myself through college. It’s doable, you just have to want it bad enough.
You keep making correlations that are ridiculous. I have no issue with my taxpayer dollars helping to maintain and operate state schools. Those who want to go to state schools can do it the way I did. INDIVIDUAL ACCOUNTABILITY and INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY. These notions are lost in today’s society due to people who think like you.
What years did you work to put yourself through college?

And I already told you that MY PARENTS tax dollars subsidized your college education.
That state school you went to was funded by my parents tax dollars.
And if you took out student loans, those too were funded by my parent's tax money.

You think you're special and did it all on your own when my parent's money helped you get through college.
The govt helped you get through college.
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Old 10-10-2018, 09:52 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by JLivi1224 View Post
You should consider finding another Internet forum of like minded individuals as yourself. You wouldnít have to listen to the drivel of we gun clinging, bible toting Bubbas.

Thats the problem
Those that want education and healthcare for all are vegan and are PETA members.
This gun tottin animal killing group don't want folks to have more than an 8th grade education and think Obama is a Muslim and the leader of ISIS so I have to jump between groups.

I try to educate those peta folks that not all hunting is barbaric and bad (hunting giraffes in 40 acre HF ranchettes in Midlothian) and not all guns are M16 killing machines
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Old 10-10-2018, 09:52 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by texansfan View Post
1. I answered your question

2. You're already paying for everyone's college education that's how UT and TamU doors are open.

Tax dollars pay for that school and even more tax dollars help subsidize student loans so they can pay tuition.


I'll leave it alone but if y'all don't think having the most educated citizens ON A WHOLE in the world in our country then you have not studied the mindsets of the founding fathers.

Let me go back to mixing pea gravel in this mineral lick.
ummmm, no sir...you deflected again & didn't answer anything I asked...
Sorry, let me help you - just reply with in:


Q: WHY should I, via being taxed at a higher rate (I'll assume), be responsible to pay for someone's "free college"?



Q: Why not allow each tax payer to decide for themselves if they want to contribute to "free college" or not?



Q: How exactly is "free college" going to cure cancer?



Q: If, as you stated above, I am already paying for everyone's education, then how is it possible there are students still paying tuition? Am I already paying for it or not?



Q: Since you were already incorrect about Jefferson, I have to ask you, specifically which founding father supported "free college"?
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Old 10-10-2018, 09:54 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by Mike D View Post
Because private industry does pretty much everything more efficient and cheaper.
While private industry does do everything more efficiently, and more cost effective, they dont necessarily always pass that savings along to the Govt.
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Old 10-10-2018, 09:54 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by texansfan View Post
What years did you work to put yourself through college?

And I already told you that MY PARENTS tax dollars subsidized your college education.
That state school you went to was funded by my parents tax dollars.
And if you took out student loans, those too were funded by my parent's tax money.

You think you're special and did it all on your own when my parent's money helped you get through college.
The govt helped you get through college.
I’m starting me to understand why you’re the TBH ingnore list record holder.
Nobody helped put me THROUGH college. Special? No. Proud to do it on my on? You **** right.

Just because “your parents” tax dollars help the SCHOOL does not mean they put ME through college.

You are some kind of special.
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Old 10-10-2018, 09:58 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by texansfan View Post
Thats the problem
Those that want education and healthcare for all are vegan and are PETA members.
This gun tottin animal killing group don't want folks to have more than an 8th grade education and think Obama is a Muslim and the leader of ISIS so I have to jump between groups.

I try to educate those peta folks that not all hunting is barbaric and bad (hunting giraffes in 40 acre HF ranchettes in Midlothian) and not all guns are M16 killing machines

ummmmmm......serious question based on your post history on TBH:

Q: Do you hunt?

If you are defending "hunting" with the same logic/debate you defend you liberal beliefs...then PLEASE stop defending hunting!
Because I'm guessing you are doing way more harm than good....
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Old 10-10-2018, 10:03 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by texansfan View Post
I'll leave it alone but if y'all don't think having the most educated citizens ON A WHOLE in the world in our country then you have not studied the mindsets of the founding fathers.
Just so we are clear, you think the problem with our education system is, there isnt enough stuff for free?

I noticed that you used the term "citizens". Wasnt sure if this was one of your there, their, they're slipups again. But I am sure you know that being a citizen isnt a requirement to receive a free education, and a free lunch while you get that free education.
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Old 10-10-2018, 10:08 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by Crazy Horse View Post
Soooooo.....an ENTIRE country of PhD level citizenry.....ok, I go t a question:

Q: Who will work at Mc Donald's, for minimum wage, with a PhD?
???

Like I stated previously, deflecting with a link to a fake quote, isn't "answering the question".....

And I'm not asking you to "jump"...on the contrary..I'm asking you to actually stay focused & answer the question you are specifically asked....

Otherwise, if you are not posting for a friendly debate, then why are you posting?

Last edited by Crazy Horse; 10-10-2018 at 10:18 AM.
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Old 10-10-2018, 10:55 AM   #122
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That's a pretty accurate depiction of liberals spewing their nonsensical rhetoric.
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Old 10-10-2018, 11:14 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by JLivi1224 View Post
I’m starting me to understand why you’re the TBH ingnore list record holder.
Nobody helped put me THROUGH college. Special? No. Proud to do it on my on? You **** right.

Just because “your parents” tax dollars help the SCHOOL does not mean they put ME through college.

You are some kind of special.

Own*
Seeing as I could not edit the original comment for some reason,
I just want to correct the fat finger mistake before my college education your parents paid for is attacked.

Last edited by JLivi1224; 10-10-2018 at 11:19 AM.
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Old 10-10-2018, 11:21 AM   #124
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I agree we should make higher education more accessible but not necessarily cheaper (free). Maybe for those who do not qualify for loans, we could have some type of system where they are taxed at a higher rate until they pay back what was supplemented. A degree is valuable. If the citizen does not see that value, he/she is not likely to succeed in college anyway.
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Old 10-10-2018, 11:31 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by donpablo View Post
I agree we should make higher education more accessible but not necessarily cheaper (free). Maybe for those who do not qualify for loans, we could have some type of system where they are taxed at a higher rate until they pay back what was supplemented. A degree is valuable. If the citizen does not see that value, he/she is not likely to succeed in college anyway.
There are WAY TOO MANY positions in our country that do not require a degree. Skilled labor is already in shortage. Too many chiefs and not enough Indians come to mind.
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Old 10-10-2018, 06:54 PM   #126
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Those that want higher ed can get higher ed. You may not get Baylor higher ed, but you can easily get Junior College ed with all the federal and state grants and scholarships that are available for low income folks. College is already free and they get to make money for going to school. Average Pell Grant is about $3000 per semester, tuition & books is about $1500 at a juco. That means you get to put $1500 cash in your pocket per semester to go to school. $4500 cash (tax free) in your pocket per year. How much more "free"/affordable can we make it?
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Old 10-10-2018, 08:05 PM   #127
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I wouldn’t mind free college on at least two conditions. The degrees have to be legit. STEM type. No feminist studies or the like. Second, a person has to earn their way in. Now days, there are way too many useless degree plans and basically anyone can go to school.
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Old 10-10-2018, 09:45 PM   #128
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some people just can't stand prosperity.
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Old 10-11-2018, 08:30 AM   #129
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I think the rhino has it right in his description of T-bags assessment of how college for all and health care for all will be paid for.
My son is a jr at TAMU. I know how much it cost to send him and to PAY for it. Yea we could have done parent plus loans and put all that debt on him as soon as he graduated but my wife and I chose not to. We hunkered down 20 yrs ago decided to put 5000 a yr back for our childs education. Yea it was hard and there were a bunch of times we wanted to use that money that was "just sitting there" that he knew nothing about.but we stayed true to our selves and saw it through. So far he is debt free and if there is anything left to pay in the end then we will tackle that as we see fit.
As for free education. There is no such animal. Taxes will always pay for college tuition for someone. That's the world we live in but I do not agree that the government should give every child a four yr degree on the promised just raising every persons taxes. Not everyone wants to go to college and not everyone can pass college. We can't all be "the smartest person in the room" and there will always be a need for the unskilled labor force as well as skilled labor just like there is for educated labor.
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Old 10-11-2018, 02:10 PM   #130
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The basic principles I learned in Economics 101 disprove EVERYTHING related to "free college" and "free healthcare" and predict what a complete disaster they would be.

Why is a supply-demand chart so easy to draw, but so hard for raging libs to understand?
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Old 10-11-2018, 03:24 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by agwrestler View Post
The basic principles I learned in Economics 101 disprove EVERYTHING related to "free college" and "free healthcare" and predict what a complete disaster they would be.

Why is a supply-demand chart so easy to draw, but so hard for raging libs to understand?
Thank you!
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Old 11-06-2018, 10:28 PM   #132
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Come and take it! He will not be our next senator. Mark my words.
This guy knows
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Old 11-07-2018, 12:08 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by texansfan View Post
What years did you work to put yourself through college?

And I already told you that MY PARENTS tax dollars subsidized your college education.
That state school you went to was funded by my parents tax dollars.
And if you took out student loans, those too were funded by my parent's tax money.

You think you're special and did it all on your own when my parent's money helped you get through college.
The govt helped you get through college.
You have a fundamental misunderstanding of federal student loans and where that money comes from, who makes money on those loans, and the actual financial system of the US as a whole. Itís pointless to argue with you on this subject because of the ignorance
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Old 11-07-2018, 07:20 AM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texasdeerhunter View Post
You have a fundamental misunderstanding of federal student loans and where that money comes from, who makes money on those loans, and the actual financial system of the US as a whole. It’s pointless to argue with you on this subject because of the ignorance
The money passes through the federal govt and uses our tax dollars in order to be processed.

https://www.brookings.edu/research/e...nterest-rates/

Yes private industry can profit on the loans but the federal govt GUARANTEES payment of the loans (and makes a profit themselves) so if the student does not pay the federal govt needs to spend money on recouping the funds from the student in the form of liens just like the IRS does.

The federal govt places a cap on the amount of interest that can be charged on these federally subsidized student loans. That is a form of socialism is it not?
The govt artificially setting a ceiling on interest rates (profit margins) and then also excluding those beneficial prime lower interest rates to those who make more than a certain amount (wealth redistribution from the wealthy to non wealthy)

Last edited by texansfan; 11-07-2018 at 07:25 AM.
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