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Old 03-08-2019, 01:23 PM   #51
xman59
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Originally Posted by tvc184 View Post
We recently lost about 40 officers of 127 in a little over two years and with it about 800 years of experience.

We are now facing what most other employers are facing in todayís job market including in the private sector. There has always been a generation gap but this one seems to be different.

When I started so many years ago, we wore our hair different, we listened to different music, we hung out at different places and so on. It was obvious that we did not exactly fit me in with the older guys. The older and more experienced officers did not like us rushing into things getting them involved when they would rather sit back and only get involved in any serious issues. For the most part it has always been like that. We all shared the common feelings of wanting to be police officers even though we saw the world through different eyes.

Now.... not so much.

We have some very good young officers. As you say, the tough part is finding them. It used to be that almost all rookie officers wanted to ride the night and evening shifts. They wanted to work the weekends to be involved in the fights, the chases, run with lights and siren and act like kids in a candy store. Now (and I am not exaggerating) the day that many new officers get cut loose from training they put in a letter to go to day shift and want weekends off and get frustrated when they donít get it. It is hard for me to grasp the concept of wanting to be a police officer yet seeming want no part in the job.

Again, we have some dedicated and very good young officers that are every bit as enthusiastic as we were so long ago, completely inexperienced but canít wait to get into the fight.... it is harder and harder to find them.

Maybe it is time......
I watched the change over my 30 years at Beaumont pd,,,, turn over was always real high,, my academy in 1981 was 22 just for Beaumont, within 1 year we were down to about 15, after 5years about 8 remained,, by the time 20 years rolled by there were only 3 of us left.... I was the first one to retire mostly due to back issues but I made 30,, one of the others left Jan of this year, so only 1 remains but he has a do nothing inside job and has had, for years,,,
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Old 03-08-2019, 01:29 PM   #52
Arrowthreat
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contractors too. when the taco truck pulls onto a job site, the young guys run to panera bread and get some broccoli cheese soup, while us veterans get the mystery meat taco deluxe. they just don't make guys like they used to.:d:d:d:d
lol
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Old 03-08-2019, 01:33 PM   #53
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Fired? Yes. Charged? No.

People do weird things when bullets start flying. Everyone reacts different.
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Old 03-08-2019, 02:12 PM   #54
meltingfeather
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Heck no, I shoot a mans gun. A 6.5x284 Norma
you run when it kicks?
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Old 03-08-2019, 03:53 PM   #55
doug
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Contractors too. When the Taco Truck pulls onto a job site, the young guys run to Panera Bread and get some Broccoli Cheese soup, while us veterans get the Mystery Meat Taco Deluxe. They just don't make guys like they used to.
. I laughed hard at this!
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Old 03-08-2019, 09:14 PM   #56
Merc
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nothing will pucker you up like the sound of a bullet flying past you, there's no way to really train for that. you never know how someone will react until they are in that situation.
We actually did have a way to get accustomed to the sound of bullets going by.

During zero on the static range, or static range solo drills, we would walk up to our target and check hits, or change out targets while the guy right and left were still firing. Trained both the shooter to keep his peripheral vision and the guy walking to change his target to know where he's at and what those incoming rounds sound like.

But I agree that it still isn't the same as the two way gun range, however it does help keep a guy from panicking his first firefight.

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Old 03-08-2019, 10:19 PM   #57
175gr7.62
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Until you have been shot at you just donít know. Itís a very sobering experience.

I do think LEO trainees should spent some time in target pits to experience the sound of bullets going by for no other reason than to just know what they sound like.


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Old 03-08-2019, 11:38 PM   #58
billythefish
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Until you have been shot at you just donít know. Itís a very sobering experience.

I do think LEO trainees should spent some time in target pits to experience the sound of bullets going by for no other reason than to just know what they sound like.


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I don't see how hearing some cracks overhead in the pits would help to be honest. I think regular HARD physical training for contact situations would be more beneficial. Room to room with stun grenades etc...**** up all senses repeatedly to desensitize... but then I doubt most departments have the time/budget for such training
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Old 03-08-2019, 11:54 PM   #59
175gr7.62
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I don't see how hearing some cracks overhead in the pits would help to be honest. I think regular HARD physical training for contact situations would be more beneficial. Room to room with stun grenades etc...**** up all senses repeatedly to desensitize... but then I doubt most departments have the time/budget for such training


You ever been in a gunfight? There is nothing in the world that compares to rounds going past you. The only thing that will desensitize you to getting shot at is getting shot at at not getting shot.

Iíve seen the most macho dudes fold when rounds start flying and the most timid scrawny guys brush it off and thrive...even enjoy it. Bottom line, nobody knows what theyíll do until it happens. A bar fight and and a fire fight arenít even in the same universe when it comes to a high stress situation.


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Old 03-09-2019, 12:06 AM   #60
tvc184
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Originally Posted by billythefish View Post
I don't see how hearing some cracks overhead in the pits would help to be honest. I think regular HARD physical training for contact situations would be more beneficial. Room to room with stun grenades etc...**** up all senses repeatedly to desensitize... but then I doubt most ANY departments have the time/budget for such training
Fify
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Old 03-09-2019, 12:12 AM   #61
billythefish
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Originally Posted by 175gr7.62 View Post
You ever been in a gunfight? There is nothing in the world that compares to rounds going past you. The only thing that will desensitize you to getting shot at is getting shot at at not getting shot.

Iíve seen the most macho dudes fold when rounds start flying and the most timid scrawny guys brush it off and thrive...even enjoy it. Bottom line, nobody knows what theyíll do until it happens. A bar fight and and a fire fight arenít even in the same universe when it comes to a high stress situation.


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I spent 16 years working in hostile environments in the military and contracting. A few things have appeared much worse to me than incoming rounds, such as EFPs and ppieds. Actually after my own training and experience I'd say that I was more than well enough prepared. There is always the outlier but stringent selection is there for a reason with elite units. How many Green Berets/Seals/Delta/SAS/SBS have you encountered on tours who had to get pulled out of a forward location due to being scared of their first contact?
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Old 03-09-2019, 12:30 AM   #62
tvc184
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Originally Posted by 175gr7.62 View Post
You ever been in a gunfight? There is nothing in the world that compares to rounds going past you. The only thing that will desensitize you to getting shot at is getting shot at at not getting shot.

Iíve seen the most macho dudes fold when rounds start flying and the most timid scrawny guys brush it off and thrive...even enjoy it. Bottom line, nobody knows what theyíll do until it happens. A bar fight and and a fire fight arenít even in the same universe when it comes to a high stress situation.


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The first time I was in a shooting, the guy got off one round with an M1 Carbine and then seven more with a .357 magnum. Fortunately that M1 malfunctioned on the first shot (double feed) and he had to resort to his handguns.

It sounded like a hiss followed by a crack when the rounds went past my head. It was like you could reach out and touch where the bullet passed. It was interesting to say the least. I have been in four other shooting incidents since but none down range to hear this hiss cracks. The rest were too close...

I am honestly glad that I have heard it but hopefully that once was enough.

I have remarked to a few combat vets that I have been in a few shooting situations, fired my gun in anger and seen a couple of people shot up close. All of mine combined come to about 120 seconds. What in the heck must it be like to be in a sustained firefight?

Hopefully I will finish out my career without finding out but I agree, my very minuscule experience with shots hissing past makes me believe that it is an outlook changer. My deepest respect for those who have faced it.
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Old 03-09-2019, 07:34 AM   #63
doug
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Originally Posted by 175gr7.62 View Post
Until you have been shot at you just donít know. Itís a very sobering experience.

I do think LEO trainees should spent some time in target pits to experience the sound of bullets going by for no other reason than to just know what they sound like.


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We did something close when i went to the academy 30 something years ago. Very controlled situation but we stood behind the corner of a building while a instructor shot several types of weapons into the range behind us. The rounds passed several feet away as we stood there. Intresting and definately a learning experience!

I'm sure they dont do it now due to safety risks or some kind BS!
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