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Old 03-07-2019, 08:50 PM   #1
bloodstick
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Default Rookie LEO runs from gunfight

Not sure if this was posted, search came up empty.

Apparently, 3 officers went to a call when two rookies fled when shots were fired. The suspect later died of his wounds.

Do you think these guys need to be charged instead of just fired?
Thoughts?

https://defensemaven.io/bluelivesmat...0y-0Xile5qOIA/


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Old 03-07-2019, 08:52 PM   #2
thegrouse
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Veteran Sgt is still alive. The guy who was shooting at them is dead
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Old 03-07-2019, 08:54 PM   #3
bloodstick
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Originally Posted by thegrouse View Post
Veteran Sgt is still alive. The guy who was shooting at them is dead


My bad, i must have mistaken the article. Good to hear the sergeant lived through it


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Old 03-07-2019, 08:59 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bloodstick View Post
Not sure if this was posted, search came up empty.

Apparently, 3 officers went to a call when two rookies fled when shots were fired. The veteran officer later died at the hospital.

Do you think these guys need to be charged instead of just fired?
Thoughts?

https://defensemaven.io/bluelivesmat...0y-0Xile5qOIA/


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Sarge got the job done. The 2 millennials were apparently brought up lacking testicular fortitude. Whatabuger is hiring boys.......
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Old 03-07-2019, 09:00 PM   #5
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Funny we were talking about this very incident today at lunch with 5 vet officers and one rookie in training.

Academy does not teach one how they will react in a real hail of crap. I had one female rookie cradle up in a fetal position at a stand off with a guy shooting. I kept yelling at her to draw her weapon and seek better cover.

She quit the following day.
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Old 03-07-2019, 09:01 PM   #6
sharkhunter
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Yep they need to go find another line of work. It’s all cool being a Leo till it’s time to do real Leo stuff.
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Old 03-07-2019, 09:02 PM   #7
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Read "On Killing" by Dave Grossman. It's an eye opener.
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Old 03-07-2019, 09:04 PM   #8
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Read "On Killing" by Dave Grossman. It's an eye opener.
I love Grossman he is a bonafide bad azz. Tried getting him as guest speaker the last 2 yrs for Backing the Blue event. He stays booked up though.
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Old 03-07-2019, 09:05 PM   #9
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It ain't for everybody. Another reason to respect those that can.
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Old 03-07-2019, 09:07 PM   #10
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I would probably run too.
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Old 03-07-2019, 09:29 PM   #11
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I have worked with maybe 6 officers that were fired for cowardice and none were even for shooting incidents. All were sent home during the shift. Once an officer shows an act of cowardice, he/she is not sent back out to complete the shift and endanger other officers or the public.

There are lots of areas of training that may get multiple chances to correct mistakes. Cowardice is one and done.
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Old 03-07-2019, 09:50 PM   #12
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Everyone wants to be a lion until it’s time to do lion sh*t.

Glad they were fired. Won’t put up with that crap. They needed to be taken off the street.

Nothing worse than being in a fight and your cover is just standing there letting you get your *** kicked.
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Old 03-07-2019, 09:50 PM   #13
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You never know what folks will do when chit hits the fan.

The couple bad situations I was in it was always the folks you never thought would that cut and ran/hid.


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Old 03-07-2019, 09:50 PM   #14
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Unfortunately it's more common than you'd think. Alot of these younger folks wanna play dress up and drive around to be seen, but lack what it takes to do the job outside of writing soccer moms for illegal u turns.
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Old 03-07-2019, 10:12 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by 325to1195 View Post
Unfortunately it's more common than you'd think. Alot of these younger folks wanna play dress up and drive around to be seen, but lack what it takes to do the job outside of writing soccer moms for illegal u turns.
It's not just LEO either. Firefighters, too. When it gets hot and dark, they'd rather be elsewhere.
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Old 03-07-2019, 10:20 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 325to1195 View Post
Unfortunately it's more common than you'd think. Alot of these younger folks wanna play dress up and drive around to be seen, but lack what it takes to do the job outside of writing soccer moms for illegal u turns.
Quote:
Originally Posted by firemanjj82 View Post
It's not just LEO either. Firefighters, too. When it gets hot and dark, they'd rather be elsewhere.
Contractors too. When the Taco Truck pulls onto a job site, the young guys run to Panera Bread and get some Broccoli Cheese soup, while us veterans get the Mystery Meat Taco Deluxe. They just don't make guys like they used to.
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Old 03-07-2019, 10:21 PM   #17
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Pretty solid replies. I feel the same way yall do. There is no place for that in police work


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Old 03-07-2019, 10:40 PM   #18
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Absolutely, fire them. I'm a patrol Sgt. and would make sure that they went home never to return if they responded in that manner. You're either a sheep dog or not. On a side note, we're going through a big transition from veteran officers to brand new guy with the growth of our agency. Its been eye opening to say the least. There are a lot of great people out there, just gotta find the right ones.
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Old 03-07-2019, 10:46 PM   #19
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Never been in involved in a 31 10-60
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Old 03-07-2019, 10:51 PM   #20
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My understanding is there is no legal obligation for the officers to engage in a gun fight. But fully fireable for not following department expectations.
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Old 03-07-2019, 10:56 PM   #21
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nothing will pucker you up like the sound of a bullet flying past you, there's no way to really train for that. you never know how someone will react until they are in that situation.
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Old 03-07-2019, 11:08 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curtintex View Post
Contractors too. When the Taco Truck pulls onto a job site, the young guys run to Panera Bread and get some Broccoli Cheese soup, while us veterans get the Mystery Meat Taco Deluxe. They just don't make guys like they used to.
Epic
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Old 03-07-2019, 11:19 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by curtintex View Post
Contractors too. When the Taco Truck pulls onto a job site, the young guys run to Panera Bread and get some Broccoli Cheese soup, while us veterans get the Mystery Meat Taco Deluxe. They just don't make guys like they used to.
Man if the ole velvet elvis was still in play you'd have a stack of em.

Classic.
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Old 03-07-2019, 11:30 PM   #24
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I have seen a guy fired for cowardice. Needed to happen. I always told the boots....it may be that both of us are getting the crud kicked out of us but you better not run and your better not quit until we are done.
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Old 03-07-2019, 11:47 PM   #25
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Wondered how it would end up.
Good on the chief
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Old 03-08-2019, 02:52 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laredoarcher View Post
Never been in involved in a 31 10-60
In a what?
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Old 03-08-2019, 02:55 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by scott123456789 View Post
My understanding is there is no legal obligation for the officers to engage in a gun fight. But fully fireable for not following department expectations.
There is almost no legal obligation to do anything in any job. The only obligation is to comply with an employer’s rules.

Running from a fight isn’t......
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Old 03-08-2019, 03:29 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by rockyraider View Post
Absolutely, fire them. I'm a patrol Sgt. and would make sure that they went home never to return if they responded in that manner. You're either a sheep dog or not. On a side note, we're going through a big transition from veteran officers to brand new guy with the growth of our agency. Its been eye opening to say the least. There are a lot of great people out there, just gotta find the right ones.
We recently lost about 40 officers of 127 in a little over two years and with it about 800 years of experience.

We are now facing what most other employers are facing in today’s job market including in the private sector. There has always been a generation gap but this one seems to be different.

When I started so many years ago, we wore our hair different, we listened to different music, we hung out at different places and so on. It was obvious that we did not exactly fit me in with the older guys. The older and more experienced officers did not like us rushing into things getting them involved when they would rather sit back and only get involved in any serious issues. For the most part it has always been like that. We all shared the common feelings of wanting to be police officers even though we saw the world through different eyes.

Now.... not so much.

We have some very good young officers. As you say, the tough part is finding them. It used to be that almost all rookie officers wanted to ride the night and evening shifts. They wanted to work the weekends to be involved in the fights, the chases, run with lights and siren and act like kids in a candy store. Now (and I am not exaggerating) the day that many new officers get cut loose from training they put in a letter to go to day shift and want weekends off and get frustrated when they don’t get it. It is hard for me to grasp the concept of wanting to be a police officer yet seeming want no part in the job.

Again, we have some dedicated and very good young officers that are every bit as enthusiastic as we were so long ago, completely inexperienced but can’t wait to get into the fight.... it is harder and harder to find them.

Maybe it is time......
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Old 03-08-2019, 04:06 AM   #29
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i was shot at numerous times i didnt have a gun i was scared to death im no police officer no armed force guy or a crook i was just just a young boy looking for nookie funny how fast you can run thru the woods in the dark when ya have to.....
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Old 03-08-2019, 05:47 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by firemanjj82 View Post
It's not just LEO either. Firefighters, too. When it gets hot and dark, they'd rather be elsewhere.
Oh yeah, wouldn’t wanna leave the smoke eaters out of the thread. I’m sure things get down right hard when the lights go out in the shower, when someone accidentally trips over the massage chair cord and unplugs it or when someone else beats your high score on call of duty. I’d wanna run away too once I came to the realization that rain can do my job.
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Old 03-08-2019, 05:55 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by UltraMax View Post
Oh yeah, wouldn’t wanna leave the smoke eaters out of the thread. I’m sure things get down right hard when the lights go out in the shower, when someone accidentally trips over the massage chair cord and unplugs it or when someone else beats your high score on call of duty. I’d wanna run away too once I came to the realization that rain can do my job.


Lmfao
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Old 03-08-2019, 06:13 AM   #32
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Yep, happens in the military as well.

I had one sergeant who could PT with the best of them, and was a hard-charger in training, crying crocodile tears in my office begging not to be sent “outside the wire”.
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Old 03-08-2019, 06:18 AM   #33
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Correctional officer is on top of the list
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Old 03-08-2019, 06:19 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvc184 View Post
We recently lost about 40 officers of 127 in a little over two years and with it about 800 years of experience.

We are now facing what most other employers are facing in today’s job market including in the private sector. There has always been a generation gap but this one seems to be different.

When I started so many years ago, we wore our hair different, we listened to different music, we hung out at different places and so on. It was obvious that we did not exactly fit me in with the older guys. The older and more experienced officers did not like us rushing into things getting them involved when they would rather sit back and only get involved in any serious issues. For the most part it has always been like that. We all shared the common feelings of wanting to be police officers even though we saw the world through different eyes.

Now.... not so much.

We have some very good young officers. As you say, the tough part is finding them. It used to be that almost all rookie officers wanted to ride the night and evening shifts. They wanted to work the weekends to be involved in the fights, the chases, run with lights and siren and act like kids in a candy store. Now (and I am not exaggerating) the day that many new officers get cut loose from training they put in a letter to go to day shift and want weekends off and get frustrated when they don’t get it. It is hard for me to grasp the concept of wanting to be a police officer yet seeming want no part in the job.

Again, we have some dedicated and very good young officers that are every bit as enthusiastic as we were so long ago, completely inexperienced but can’t wait to get into the fight.... it is harder and harder to find them.

Maybe it is time......
Current selection process is running some of those guys your looking for off...
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Old 03-08-2019, 06:22 AM   #35
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How about the 27 year old still living at home with his parents? He needed to go andnil glad the Sgt took care if it.
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Old 03-08-2019, 06:24 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by UltraMax View Post
Oh yeah, wouldn’t wanna leave the smoke eaters out of the thread. I’m sure things get down right hard when the lights go out in the shower, when someone accidentally trips over the massage chair cord and unplugs it or when someone else beats your high score on call of duty. I’d wanna run away too once I came to the realization that rain can do my job.
Not me. I don't work for Frisco.
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Old 03-08-2019, 06:25 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by UltraMax View Post
Everyone wants to be a lion until it’s time to do lion sh*t.

Glad they were fired. Won’t put up with that crap. They needed to be taken off the street.

Nothing worse than being in a fight and your cover is just standing there letting you get your *** kicked.
You left out the ace beating before they turned in the uniform

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Old 03-08-2019, 06:30 AM   #38
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My middle boy is a cop. I have to talk to talk to him everyday, just so I know he is OK.
Don't know how you LEO's do it! Prayers for you guys EVERYDAY.
Thank you.
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Old 03-08-2019, 08:12 AM   #39
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The town I grew up in had some officers that were not really cut out for serious law enforcement work. They were good at writing speeding tickets, not much more. For a while there, some locals it turns out, decided to rob some local places, armed with shotguns. I think they hit the HEB first, shot up the store, shooting displays ect. Did not actually shoot at anyone. A girl I knew back then worked at HEB, she said she was sure she recognized one of the guys. Well when the call of a armed robbery came in at the local PD, they all too off to the other side of town, claiming that they also got a call for a senior citizen having a heart attack. So all seven of them took off way out of town the other way away from HEB, which was only 1/2 mile or so from the police station.
A week later the one bank in town right across from the HEB got robbed by two guys with shotguns. Again the police all took off out of town the other way, to a call for a senior citizen having a heart attack. But not all left for the heart attack, some stayed at the police station, because they claimed someone had let the air out of their tires. So instead of grabbing guns and ammo and running down the road to the bank, they just stayed at the police station.
Eventually the guys were caught, turned out they lived back behind HEB. When they robbed HEB, they left tracks across the plowed field behind HEB and a trail of bills. The foot prints and trail of money went straight to a small poor neighborhood on the other side of the field behind HEB. I would guess the FBI and or the sheriffs department came in and helped figure that one out and arrested those two.
Our local law enforcement back then was a bit of a joke, those two armed robberies proved it. Nobody got fired over either of the events that took place, when either armed robbery call happened.

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Old 03-08-2019, 08:17 AM   #40
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Contractors too. When the Taco Truck pulls onto a job site, the young guys run to Panera Bread and get some Broccoli Cheese soup, while us veterans get the Mystery Meat Taco Deluxe. They just don't make guys like they used to.
I found this hilarious, thx
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Old 03-08-2019, 10:25 AM   #41
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Alot of issues such as these could be solved with a more stringent selection and training process.
There is a reason special forces units are selective by nature.
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Old 03-08-2019, 10:34 AM   #42
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Alot of issues such as these could be solved with a more stringent selection and training process.
There is a reason special forces units are selective by nature.
its a catch 22. more and more departments are reducing requirements right now just to broaden the applicant pool. required college hours are being reduced, less time on the job required for lateral transfers, more emphasis on military experience are a few.

we have lost a bunch of guys over the last 2-3 years, for various reasons, and are about 9-10 guys short on a 90 man department, may not sound like much but when you figure that most of the holes are in patrol, thats 8-9 spots missing out of 40-45. we have had to rotate veteran guys out of specialized units and even just implemented a hybrid 10/12hr shift to help, and its not really helping.

people just dont want to be cops these days. i cant even count the number of rookies we have had come through over the last 5, 6, 7 years or so that cant make it past their first adrenaline dump.
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Old 03-08-2019, 10:39 AM   #43
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its a catch 22. more and more departments are reducing requirements right now just to broaden the applicant pool. required college hours are being reduced, less time on the job required for lateral transfers, more emphasis on military experience are a few.

we have lost a bunch of guys over the last 2-3 years, for various reasons, and are about 9-10 guys short on a 90 man department, may not sound like much but when you figure that most of the holes are in patrol, thats 8-9 spots missing out of 40-45. we have had to rotate veteran guys out of specialized units and even just implemented a hybrid 10/12hr shift to help, and its not really helping.

people just dont want to be cops these days. i cant even count the number of rookies we have had come through over the last 5, 6, 7 years or so that cant make it past their first adrenaline dump.
That's a tough one for sure
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Old 03-08-2019, 10:45 AM   #44
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I would probably run too.
I'm assuming you left off the CM in your handle.
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Old 03-08-2019, 10:48 AM   #45
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My 17 year old wants to be a cop and would love to go on a ride a long if someone can help. We are in a Mansfield, but could go somewhere on the DFW.
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Old 03-08-2019, 10:58 AM   #46
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I'm assuming you left off the CM in your handle.
Heck no, I shoot a mans gun. A 6.5x284 Norma
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Old 03-08-2019, 11:13 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by rockyraider View Post
Absolutely, fire them. I'm a patrol Sgt. and would make sure that they went home never to return if they responded in that manner. You're either a sheep dog or not. On a side note, we're going through a big transition from veteran officers to brand new guy with the growth of our agency. Its been eye opening to say the least. There are a lot of great people out there, just gotta find the right ones.
Just my curiosity here.
Does your department require a college education to apply? Dont most these days?
Fire and police departments seem to be going this route instead of just finding good people who would like a good job. The education requirement seems to be weeding out a lot of good talent.
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Old 03-08-2019, 11:42 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by firemanjj82 View Post
It's not just LEO either. Firefighters, too. When it gets hot and dark, they'd rather be elsewhere.
I've been in quite a phew firefights, but when your talking about fire I would rather go the other way. Hats off to all you guys in the fire department.

Last edited by Rakkasan2187; 03-08-2019 at 11:46 AM.
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Old 03-08-2019, 12:05 PM   #49
KoonceCrushed
Four Point
 
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Join Date: Jan 2016
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Originally Posted by bloodstick View Post
Not sure if this was posted, search came up empty.

Apparently, 3 officers went to a call when two rookies fled when shots were fired. The suspect later died of his wounds.

Do you think these guys need to be charged instead of just fired?
Thoughts?

https://defensemaven.io/bluelivesmat...0y-0Xile5qOIA/


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I know Bill, he is an awesome Cop! That's about as common sense as you get!
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Old 03-08-2019, 12:15 PM   #50
Texas Tracker
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Originally Posted by Rakkasan2187 View Post
I've been in quite a phew firefights, but when your talking about fire I would rather go the other way. Hats off to all you guys in the fire department.
Me too brother I would rather be shot then burned.
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