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Old 05-14-2019, 09:51 PM   #1
sharkhunter
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Default Electrical and water line in Trench question

I need to run power and water to my shop that is 175ft away and will cross a gravel driveway. I want to run the electric conduit and the water in the same trench. How deep should I go. I was thinking 36 inch for the conduit fill in about 12 inches and put the water line on top of that. Is this over kill or about right? One section will eventually get a slab poured over it for a garage.

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Old 05-14-2019, 09:56 PM   #2
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You can run them in same trench. 24” for electrical conduit under concrete carrying weight. You can put water right next to it. Doesn’t matter.


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Old 05-14-2019, 09:58 PM   #3
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18” will work for the electrical.
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Old 05-14-2019, 09:58 PM   #4
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18” will work for the electrical.


Not under a drive way.


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Old 05-14-2019, 10:01 PM   #5
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Not under a drive way.


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Under a dwelling driveway.
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Old 05-14-2019, 10:02 PM   #6
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Not under a drive way.


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I was a little worried about that because some dump trucks and delivery trucks will be driving over it at times. Not a lot but it will happen.
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Old 05-14-2019, 10:04 PM   #7
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I was a little worried about that because some dump trucks and delivery trucks will be driving over it at times. Not a lot but it will happen.
You can bury it as deep as you want. As far as Code goes, 18” is minimum for a residential driveway.
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Old 05-14-2019, 10:07 PM   #8
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Default Electrical and water line in Trench question

Is conduit a must or is UF cable an option if worried about crushing conduit? I like raceways as you can replace if needed but not required. If ground is soft then deeper is better and not that much more time with a good trencher.


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Old 05-14-2019, 10:08 PM   #9
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You can bury it as deep as you want. As far as Code goes, 18” is minimum for a residential driveway.


Rubi is right. The minimum is 18” in residential drives. I always go the route better safe than sorry under drives. Driveways is 24”. “Dwelling driveways” are 18”. If I’m digging a ditch, what’s an extra 6”??


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Old 05-14-2019, 10:09 PM   #10
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what’s an extra 6”??


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Doing electrical work, or making movies...
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Old 05-14-2019, 10:12 PM   #11
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Lay it a few inches apart at least. Don’t have it touching at all what ever you do


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Old 05-14-2019, 10:13 PM   #12
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Lay it a few inches apart at least. Don’t have it touching at all what ever you do


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Why? They will both be in conduit.


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Old 05-14-2019, 10:15 PM   #13
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If you ever have to work on the water line that’s why don’t want to wrestle another pipe right next to it if you have to ever repair it .


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Old 05-14-2019, 10:17 PM   #14
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Why? They will both be in conduit.


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I hope your not running the water line out of conduit.
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Old 05-14-2019, 10:19 PM   #15
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I hope your not running the water line out of conduit.
What else would you put it in?
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Old 05-14-2019, 10:21 PM   #16
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Let me clarify for the OP. For safety and legal purposes, there is no reason what so ever, you can’t put them both in same ditch. The MINIMUM COVER the code requires under a residential drive is 18”. Any drive other than residential is 24”. If I was digging the ditch and expected heavy traffic I would go the extra 6”.


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Old 05-14-2019, 10:22 PM   #17
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What else would you put it in?


White pvc pipe for water



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Old 05-14-2019, 10:22 PM   #18
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White pvc pipe for water



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That’s considered conduit...PVC conduit.
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Old 05-14-2019, 10:23 PM   #19
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What else would you put it in?


I like to just use cheap garden hoses


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Old 05-14-2019, 10:25 PM   #20
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I like to just use cheap garden hoses


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Old 05-14-2019, 10:26 PM   #21
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Conduit is grey pipe . Are silver metal pipe not white Pvc


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Old 05-14-2019, 10:28 PM   #22
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Conduit is grey pipe . Are silver metal pipe not white Pvc


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Old 05-14-2019, 10:31 PM   #23
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https://www.thefreedictionary.com/plumbing+conduit

Edit. Flash beat me.
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Old 05-14-2019, 10:33 PM   #24
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Just for clarification for the electrical I’m going to run 4/0 wire in 2” sch40 gray pvc conduit. For the water planing to run 1-1/4 sch40 white pvc
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Old 05-14-2019, 10:36 PM   #25
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Just for clarification for the electrical I’m going to run 4/0 wire in 2” sch40 gray pvc conduit. For the water planing to run 1-1/4 sch40 white pvc


You are correct in your sizing on the electrical conduit. Will this be sub-fed from an existing service? If so run a #4 ground wire also. Separate your grounds and neutrals on the new side.


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Old 05-14-2019, 11:04 PM   #26
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You are correct in your sizing on the electrical conduit. Will this be sub-fed from an existing service? If so run a #4 ground wire also. Separate your grounds and neutrals on the new side.


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I’m not up on electrical terminology so not sure what a sub feed is. I have an electrician I’m going to bring on to help me on the hookups to make sure all is right. What I have now is right after the meter the service goes to a header box. Going into the box is my generator and coming out is my breaker box. I don’t want the generator running the shop so he’s going to tie into the header and go to a disconnect then out to my shop so I will not be going though the breaker box of the house. Do you think I need to separate the ground if ran like this? What would be the advantages of that? Thanks everyone for your help.
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Old 05-15-2019, 12:43 AM   #27
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I’m not up on electrical terminology so not sure what a sub feed is. I have an electrician I’m going to bring on to help me on the hookups to make sure all is right. What I have now is right after the meter the service goes to a header box. Going into the box is my generator and coming out is my breaker box. I don’t want the generator running the shop so he’s going to tie into the header and go to a disconnect then out to my shop so I will not be going though the breaker box of the house. Do you think I need to separate the ground if ran like this? What would be the advantages of that? Thanks everyone for your help.
Flash will correct me if I'm wrong but what you describe would not be a subpanel, so you can ground your neutral at the new shop panel. Drive a rod near the shop panel and ground your panel there, then tie your neutral and ground bars inside the panel.

If you were feeding your shop panel from a breaker in your existing panel, you would not ground the neutral in the shop subpanel. Neutral would only be grounded at the main.
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Old 05-15-2019, 05:36 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoss163 View Post
Conduit is grey pipe . Are silver metal pipe not white Pvc


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For the record...I was in construction for 35 years. Conduit is always referred to as a electrical pipe.
Water raceways have always been referred to as just water pipe. Copper or plastic(pex).
Schedule 40 is standard wall thickness. Schedule 80 is heavy wall PVC conduit for that extra strength pipe wall. I believe the white water PVC is measured in the same way, sched 40 & 80 for wall thickness.
I have only heard people not in the trades refer to a water pipe as a water conduit.

You have truck traffic? Hard coliche? Use the schedule 80 PVC.
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Old 05-15-2019, 06:13 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkhunter View Post
I’m not up on electrical terminology so not sure what a sub feed is. I have an electrician I’m going to bring on to help me on the hookups to make sure all is right. What I have now is right after the meter the service goes to a header box. Going into the box is my generator and coming out is my breaker box. I don’t want the generator running the shop so he’s going to tie into the header and go to a disconnect then out to my shop so I will not be going though the breaker box of the house. Do you think I need to separate the ground if ran like this? What would be the advantages of that? Thanks everyone for your help.


Ok sorry, I passed out last night. Everything after the first point of disconnect is a sub feed. Your first point of disconnect for the shop will be at the main service at your house. This needs to be the ONLY place that your neutrals and grounds are together. Every location after that will need to be separated. You will need a main breaker at the shop also because it is a separate structure. Also a ground rod. In this situation you will need the separate ground wire.


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Old 05-15-2019, 06:32 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Pic View Post
For the record...I was in construction for 35 years. Conduit is always referred to as a electrical pipe.
Water raceways have always been referred to as just water pipe. Copper or plastic(pex).
Schedule 40 is standard wall thickness. Schedule 80 is heavy wall PVC conduit for that extra strength pipe wall. I believe the white water PVC is measured in the same way, sched 40 & 80 for wall thickness.
I have only heard people not in the trades refer to a water pipe as a water conduit.

You have truck traffic? Hard coliche? Use the schedule 80 PVC.
Lol....conduit is for wires! Water conduit is something I expect to hear at Home Depot!



That's almost as stupid as a hose pipe!

I buried my water and elect 36" deep in the same hole. That trencher dont care!

Last edited by Traildust; 05-15-2019 at 06:35 AM.
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Old 05-15-2019, 07:24 AM   #31
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I wouldn’t even use conduit, I’d use UF and save the money and hassle. Lay the wire in the same trench and get it done


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Old 05-15-2019, 08:11 AM   #32
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Quote:
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For the record...I was in construction for 35 years. Conduit is always referred to as a electrical pipe.
But it say so the de dictionary!
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Old 05-15-2019, 08:41 AM   #33
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I had just done this. My requirement from elec co. was a 2-1/2" conduit 30" deep. I ran water in the same trench 12" above electrical conduit.
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Old 05-15-2019, 08:46 AM   #34
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When you start to cover these...put 6 or so inches of dirt in, the lay yellow caution or red danger tape/robin in the trench. So if you later on, or someone else digs the tape I will be seen first
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Old 05-15-2019, 08:58 AM   #35
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When you start to cover these...put 6 or so inches of dirt in, the lay yellow caution or red danger tape/robin in the trench. So if you later on, or someone else digs the tape I will be seen first
That's a good idea....I built my house and shop and even I cant exactly remember how everything ran after a few years
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Old 05-15-2019, 09:49 AM   #36
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But it say so the de dictionary!
Yes sir brother I totally agree, that is what the book says.
But you sound like a green horn saying it. That is all I'm saying.
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Old 05-15-2019, 10:14 AM   #37
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I ran electrical from the pole to my house, and water from the well to the house. Well and electrical pole were close to each other, so they ran in the same trench 90% of the way to the house. The electrical from pole to house was 200 amps, so we buried it about 5' deep in a 4" pvc. Filled back about 18" then ran water, then filled in trench
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Old 05-15-2019, 10:25 AM   #38
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this is Websters definition.

Definition of conduit
1 : a natural or artificial channel through which something (such as a fluid) is conveyed
a conduit for rainwater
2 : a pipe, tube, or tile for protecting electric wires or cables
3 : a means of transmitting or distributing

There is a difference between channel and pipe/tube.
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Old 05-15-2019, 10:51 AM   #39
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Quote:
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I hope your not running the water line out of conduit.
LoL why run 2 lines just run wire in the water line..
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Old 05-15-2019, 11:16 AM   #40
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Yes sir brother I totally agree, that is what the book says.

But you sound like a green horn saying it. That is all I'm saying.
For sure... I was kidding.

My BIL wanted to sound like he knew what he was talking about when he went to the electrical supply house and asked for “four aug” wire for his RV service. What he needed was No. 4 AWG (he pronounced the AWG) and what he got was 0000. We had a heck of a time wresting that stuff into a 30A receptacle box!!
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Old 05-15-2019, 11:17 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kossetx View Post
this is Websters definition.

Definition of conduit
1 : a natural or artificial channel through which something (such as a fluid) is conveyed
a conduit for rainwater
2 : a pipe, tube, or tile for protecting electric wires or cables
3 : a means of transmitting or distributing

There is a difference between channel and pipe/tube.
Ask a plumber to come put in conduit for you and he’ll tell you to call an electrician.
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Old 05-15-2019, 05:31 PM   #42
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LoL why run 2 lines just run wire in the water line..
Yep, just size up the electrical pipe for the water pressure. No need for a water conduit!
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Old 05-15-2019, 05:53 PM   #43
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Even though it’s just a gravel driveway it’s pretty cheap to sleeve them with a larger size pvc pipe. This will protect the pipe/conduit as well as simplify replacement. Definitely sleeve it if it was concrete.
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Old 05-15-2019, 06:51 PM   #44
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Lol....conduit is for wires! Water conduit is something I expect to hear at Home Depot!



That's almost as stupid as a hose pipe!

I buried my water and elect 36" deep in the same hole. That trencher dont care!


What’s hose pipe?.....Poly?


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Old 05-15-2019, 09:15 PM   #45
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For sure... I was kidding.

My BIL wanted to sound like he knew what he was talking about when he went to the electrical supply house and asked for “four aug” wire for his RV service. What he needed was No. 4 AWG (he pronounced the AWG) and what he got was 0000. We had a heck of a time wresting that stuff into a 30A receptacle box!!
That is funny 😁. Big price difference.
The 0000 designation is actually pronounced like aught...yup like thirty aught six.
You would be asking for 4 aught wire. AWG stands for american wire gauge😉.
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Old 05-15-2019, 10:11 PM   #46
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I advise against putting them in same ditch. Water and electric don't mix.
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Old 05-15-2019, 10:28 PM   #47
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When you start to cover these...put 6 or so inches of dirt in, the lay yellow caution or red danger tape/robin in the trench. So if you later on, or someone else digs the tape I will be seen first
Good idea. My dad also said to put galvanized wire in the ditch about 6 inch from the top so you can find it with a metal detector.
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Old 05-15-2019, 10:37 PM   #48
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I advise against putting them in same ditch. Water and electric don't mix.
Being in the same ditch won’t matter. The conduit will probably end up with water in it anyway.
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Old 05-15-2019, 10:40 PM   #49
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I advise against putting them in same ditch. Water and electric don't mix.


You’d really freak out to know that shared ditches are common. I’ve run water, electric, telephone and gas all in a combined ditch on several large commercial projects.


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Old 05-15-2019, 10:42 PM   #50
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Being in the same ditch won’t matter. The conduit will probably end up with water in it anyway.
Yep.
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