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Old 02-11-2019, 07:47 PM   #1
doghouse
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Default The Wall, another opinion!

Let's start out by saying I am a conservative. More so than lot's of you on here. The wall they are going to build with the eminent domain rule with lots of ranchers will be a problem. How about if you owned land on the Rio Grande river and government said we cant build it in the middle of the river. We have to purchase so many acres from you 100 yards from the river and go all the way thru your property. You and your family lose all access to the river. That's where your livestock and deer watered. No more fishing, swimming, are recreation on the river. Just food for thought. I'm for the wall but have no idea how to do it and not ruin lives. Burn me if you want. I have thick skin.
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Old 02-11-2019, 08:06 PM   #2
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There are some things in life that are much bigger and more important than the things you listed. What happens to your property and your family in the long run. You got to be willing to look at the big picture and the long term future.

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Old 02-11-2019, 08:12 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by iamntxhunter View Post
There are some things in life that are much bigger and more important than the things you listed. What happens to your property and your family in the long run. You got to be willing to look at the big picture and the long term future.

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Costing you and family thousands of dollars. No big deal, just discussing the other side. Would be the same on any river in Texas with a country border.
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Old 02-11-2019, 08:46 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by iamntxhunter View Post
There are some things in life that are much bigger and more important than the things you listed. What happens to your property and your family in the long run. You got to be willing to look at the big picture and the long term future.

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Yep
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Old 02-11-2019, 08:47 PM   #5
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I don’t so much think they would be doing this along the whole rio grande, but I could be completely wrong as I have not read any of the proposals. Also I feel it would be hard to find a property owner that would not be perfectly fine with a wall or fence on their property to keep trespassers out...
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Old 02-11-2019, 08:49 PM   #6
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Well one solution maybe would be to have the goverment build a lake or two 10-15 acres in size and irrigate to keep them full.
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Old 02-11-2019, 09:01 PM   #7
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I am against govt seizure of property, so I get what you are saying. But if I had land there I would be glad to have the wall between me and that craphole.
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Old 02-11-2019, 09:11 PM   #8
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I am against govt seizure of property, so I get what you are saying. But if I had land there I would be glad to have the wall between me and that craphole.
Just talking and not arguing. What if you had no problem on your property. I'm just curious. I own property on the Colorado river in Mills county. It would hurt me bad on grazing for livestock if they moved the fence 100 yards from the river. No big deal.
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Old 02-11-2019, 09:15 PM   #9
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I imagine they will be digging a lot of tanks and what not, roads for patrol and maintenance, etc. beyond that I imagine it will go a lot like when a new highway goes in. Folks will lose some land, be compensated for it, and probably get more than it's worth. It will hurt the smaller landowners the most, I reckon.

Not a great situation, but necessary in the long run.


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Old 02-11-2019, 09:15 PM   #10
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Just talking and not arguing. What if you had no problem on your property. I'm just curious. I own property on the Colorado river in Mills county. It would hurt me bad on grazing for livestock if they moved the fence 100 yards from the river. No big deal.
I guess its a risk/reward thing. I may be mistaken, but anywhere along the border has potential to become a problem.
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Old 02-11-2019, 09:36 PM   #11
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I want to say farming is much bigger than cattle on the border. But if you need access for livestock you could fence the entire length of an owners property but leave access gates open to water. They would also make pinch points for travel that could be more easily monitored. And if you need access to the river for farming, I am sure they could run canals. In reality though the parts of the mighty Rio Grande that I have seen, I could almost spit across.
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Old 02-11-2019, 09:58 PM   #12
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From a livestock perspective, perhaps it will help the fever tick quarantine and eradication efforts? This could decrease operating expenses for many ranchers.
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Old 02-11-2019, 10:20 PM   #13
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I was looking at some property on the border a while back and if I remember right, it was on the other side of the wall they started building several years ago. You had full access through a locked gate. I know many are thinking, "Doesn't sound like a very effective wall." Prolly not, but I doubt they're going to re-wall parts that already have it.

There was still quite a bit of land between the the wall and the river (they usually build in straight lines. I joked with the wife that we could retire there and eventually when we had grandkids they could swim in the river. We could tell our girls, "Oh they're having a great time. They're wet backing right now."
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Old 02-16-2019, 09:08 PM   #14
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Don't know how it is going to play out for it will be either extremely profitable for the landowners or they will be totally screwed. It appears they have lawyered up and even have a pretty vocal campaign already. Stay tuned!
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Old 02-16-2019, 09:15 PM   #15
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If I was a landowner on the Rio Grande, I wouldn't want the gubment seizing my land. They can monitor with drones or something else high tech.
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Old 02-16-2019, 09:22 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doghouse View Post
Let's start out by saying I am a conservative. More so than lot's of you on here. The wall they are going to build with the eminent domain rule with lots of ranchers will be a problem. How about if you owned land on the Rio Grande river and government said we cant build it in the middle of the river. We have to purchase so many acres from you 100 yards from the river and go all the way thru your property. You and your family lose all access to the river. That's where your livestock and deer watered. No more fishing, swimming, are recreation on the river. Just food for thought. I'm for the wall but have no idea how to do it and not ruin lives. Burn me if you want. I have thick skin.
Seems many lives have been ruined for the lack of a wall.
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Old 02-16-2019, 09:28 PM   #17
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If I was a landowner on the Rio Grande, I wouldn't want the gubment seizing my land. They can monitor with drones or something else high tech.
Bullets are pretty low tech, and cheap, and persuasive
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Old 02-16-2019, 09:56 PM   #18
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This is a risk of a landowner on a federal border. I do completely understand your reasoning and I actually researched it a while back. I did that because I didn’t understand their complaints but now I do. There are some depending on how their property aligns with the river would loose a lot. However, they will be compensated.

Did you see the cost of 55 miles? It’s very high and I’m guessing there is a fair amount for land purchase etc.

If you live on the beach there are known issues that affect your property. It’s a known risk.
Landowners on the Mexico border have known risks as well.

There is a highway going through a county near many of you right now. It affects property in very similar fashions. Yet they are built without much resistance.

The ONLY reason these property owners are being heard so loudly is because of the liberals who support no wall and open borders. You are not also hearing much from the landowners asking for closed borders and a wall.

Unfortunately there is never a perfect solution.
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Old 02-16-2019, 10:26 PM   #19
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Seems many lives have been ruined for the lack of a wall.
and an enter country.
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Old 02-16-2019, 11:35 PM   #20
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It's a bad deal no matter how you slice it...a buddy on the deer lease is going to loose 28 acres south of Weslaco of family farming land going back generations. He understands the plight better than any of us & has some unbelievable stories of mules sticking cell phones in his face with the attempt to talk to the mexican boss & being forced to deal with plata o plomo.

Now it's not just 28 acres of dirt but 28 acres of dirt that make $$$$ year after year...he has lawyers working out the issues, but the wall is coming regardless.

Biggest nonsense is the federal refuge land crap where a lot of the bs happens...this is where the battle gets really stupid. You can google 'Bentsen State Park Butterfly Center & the Border wall"

These federal refuge lands have been the biggest joke where a ton of the illegal traffic happens but BP has limited to access...pretty frustrating. We are our own worst enemy.

Mark my words, this round of current $$$$ going to the wall down here in the rgv is going to work & you are going to see a nasty upswing towards Zapata & webb counties in about two years. Then the cycle will continue I hope as something has to be done. The wall combined with a complete overhaul illegal immigration policy has to happen to stop the bleeding. Glad the wall is a first step.
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Old 02-17-2019, 01:39 AM   #21
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Government will pay you before seizing land. May not be the price you want for it, but it wonít be just taken against your will.


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Old 02-17-2019, 08:57 AM   #22
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Build the wall..... sorry if someone looses land, but it must happen
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Old 02-17-2019, 09:16 AM   #23
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Mexico is more deadly than Iraq and Afghanistan. What do you think land sells for the acre there? I am very much pro land owner rights, but the land owners are essentially neighbors with a war zone. The vast majority of the land is agriculture and controlled by the cartels anyways.

As it relates to highways. Some developers will give land to the government for highways or schools, because they realize the development can boost the value of their remaining land. I think you could make the same argument with the border wall. If I were going to buy land in the valley I would much rather have a tract that has a big freaking wall along the Mexican border, than not.
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Old 02-17-2019, 11:32 AM   #24
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Go ten miles south of the Rio and build it.

Mexico pays for it with the land we monitor it.

Like a DMZ...anyone there unlawfully...stays there forever.
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Old 02-17-2019, 12:36 PM   #25
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Build it.. Land owners have lost land to every reason under the sun for years through imminent domain laws and most of those reasons were not nearly as important to this country as border security.. It MUST be done or we as a Nation will be done...

And I don't think folks use the Rio Grande for recreation such as fishing and swimming like you might think.. That river is filthy with pollution.. FILTHY...
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Old 02-17-2019, 05:24 PM   #26
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Whoa, approximately 1,000 landowners representing 1.1 million acres of farming & ranch land have filed lawsuits. That is a lot of lawyering up by individuals. No idea how many lawsuits are by tree huggers, open border groups, etc, etc, etc. Gonna be awhile unpacking that mess..........and a lot of dollars!!!
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Old 02-17-2019, 06:11 PM   #27
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Whoa, approximately 1,000 landowners representing 1.1 million acres of farming & ranch land have filed lawsuits. That is a lot of lawyering up by individuals. No idea how many lawsuits are by tree huggers, open border groups, etc, etc, etc. Gonna be awhile unpacking that mess..........and a lot of dollars!!!
as long as taxpayers aren't paying for it, hire all the lawyers they want..

in the end they will loose.
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Old 02-17-2019, 06:32 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by stickerpatch59 View Post
as long as taxpayers aren't paying for it, hire all the lawyers they want..

in the end they will loose.
Not about them loosing so much, it is about them getting a fair future value on their land. But less we forget, we as taxpayers are paying for their land through eminent domain.........and also paying for the wall, fence, barrier, etc.
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Old 02-17-2019, 06:40 PM   #29
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55 miles of new border fencing coming to 1.4 billion isn't for construction only...

They aren't hiring lawyers with the hope of stopping the wall.
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Old 02-17-2019, 07:42 PM   #30
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Not about them loosing so much, it is about them getting a fair future value on their land. But less we forget, we as taxpayers are paying for their land through eminent domain.........and also paying for the wall, fence, barrier, etc.
unless they get a wall, there will be no future value of their land, it will either be confiscated by some socialist gov't, or will just be a wasteland of a **** hiway for more invaders to proceed north.

imo , landowners are always offered a fair if not above the market price for their property. only then if they still refuse and want a hundred times what it's worth; then they will get screwed.
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Old 02-17-2019, 08:11 PM   #31
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I leased land on the Rio Grande for over 30 years from Bill Moody. He had a ranch that at one time ran all the way from South of Del Rio to Eagle Pass. For the last 60 years it ran from Del Rio to Quemado, over 20 miles of riverfront border. Mr. Moody had a very good relationship with the Border Patrol, and in fact had contracts with the gubment and BP for access, maintenance and patrol. It was just part of his ranching operations. This included vast acerage of agriculture as well as cattle ranching. YEARS ago this whole wall thing was negotiated with Mr. Moody and the outcome of that was to build a wall that did NOT cut off access for the areas where grazing was currently allowed. Gates/passages were to be provided... Mr. Moody has passed now and his estate sold the ranch, but I'd think those agreements probably transcended ownership change.

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Originally Posted by doghouse View Post
Just talking and not arguing. What if you had no problem on your property. I'm just curious. I own property on the Colorado river in Mills county. It would hurt me bad on grazing for livestock if they moved the fence 100 yards from the river. No big deal.
This is totally a non-issue as ALL cattle/livestock on the US side of the river has NO access to the river directly. There are a series of quarantine fences that keep livestock on our side of the river from coming in contact with Mesican livestock. USDA personnel patrol the border for Mesican cattle/livestock and other animals (exotics) that may cross the river.


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Originally Posted by batmaninja View Post
I want to say farming is much bigger than cattle on the border. But if you need access for livestock you could fence the entire length of an owners property but leave access gates open to water. They would also make pinch points for travel that could be more easily monitored. And if you need access to the river for farming, I am sure they could run canals. In reality though the parts of the mighty Rio Grande that I have seen, I could almost spit across.
Again there is currently NO direct access to the river by livestock/cattle. But as stated above, provisions had been made for the Moody ranches to maintain access to the agricultural land.

As a matter of fact and interest, the Maverick Dam that is the "weir" built across the Rio Grande to control the water level for irrigation of the whole RGV is on the Moody Ranch about 15 miles below the Amistad dam. There is a canal system that has its source right there that runs all through the RGV for irrigation for farmers all over the Valley. There is vast agricultural activity on the ranch next to the river and was reasoning used in the agricultural access to the land and river in the event a barrier for keeping people out was built.

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Originally Posted by ttaxidermy View Post
Build it.. Land owners have lost land to every reason under the sun for years through imminent domain laws and most of those reasons were not nearly as important to this country as border security.. It MUST be done or we as a Nation will be done...

And I don't think folks use the Rio Grande for recreation such as fishing and swimming like you might think.. That river is filthy with pollution.. FILTHY...
Many years ago, the bold statement was true, but it is NO LONGER TRUE... for at least large stretches of the river. According to our TPWD wildlife biologist we used for our management program south of Del Rio, he told us that the water coming out of Amistad and for the first several miles below that dam and running through the city of Del Rio and Acuna was some of the purest water in the world.

I have personally swam, duck hunted, fished and enjoyed all manner of river activities in that stretch of the river. ... best dang duck lease I ever had!! THOUSANDS of ducks in the river!! I caught MANY, MANY trophy Smallmouth Bass, Largemouth Bass, Striped Bass, and Flathead catfish out of that stretch of river.

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Originally Posted by Landrover View Post
Whoa, approximately 1,000 landowners representing 1.1 million acres of farming & ranch land have filed lawsuits. That is a lot of lawyering up by individuals. No idea how many lawsuits are by tree huggers, open border groups, etc, etc, etc. Gonna be awhile unpacking that mess..........and a lot of dollars!!!
Just as Artos posted, the ranchers who "lawyered up" did so to protect their rights and to negotiate a decent deal for their property... such as the deal Mr. Moody and Moody Ranches, Inc. negotiated many years ago. I promise you they don't oppose the wall; they just want to make sure it is done right and fair.
I know Mr. Moody lost thousands and thousands of dollars in property, goods and damages from illegal crossings. Heck, the movie set of Lonesome Dove was built on a small stretch of the river, and the Mesicans have stolen just about everything from the set to take back across the river for building materials! In 2008 or 09, he had several miles of brand new 5 string barbed wire fence stolen and taken across the river!! Illegals stole the whole fence, wire, posts, even the rolls of old fence that had been taken up to build the new fence... everything was just GONE!! His airplane was stolen from ranch headquarters and flown to Mexico City. He was fortunate enough to get it back, but it had been gutted to be used as a drug plane...

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Originally Posted by Landrover View Post
Not about them loosing so much, it is about them getting a fair future value on their land. But less we forget, we as taxpayers are paying for their land through eminent domain.........and also paying for the wall, fence, barrier, etc.
True statement and spot on.
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Old 02-17-2019, 10:46 PM   #32
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It will all be for nothing if we don't get rid of the socialist traitors in the government.

Gary
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Old 02-17-2019, 11:00 PM   #33
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Seriously. Asking all the question....

Would you sacrifice the entire herd for a single lamb or lambs?



Or should we protect 350,000,000 people at the exposure of losing 20,000 cattle and/or fishing rights?
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Old 02-17-2019, 11:38 PM   #34
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I respect land rights. However, as a land owner you are responsible for your property.
If they are refusing help to stop criminal activity affecting the rest of us landowners then take that 1000 person list and sue them for all the illegal activities the others have to deal with. You can’t have it both ways!
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Old 02-18-2019, 10:05 AM   #35
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Seriously. Asking all the question....

Would you sacrifice the entire herd for a single lamb or lambs?



Or should we protect 350,000,000 people at the exposure of losing 20,000 cattle and/or fishing rights?
Well hmm how good is the fishing...
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Old 02-18-2019, 10:14 AM   #36
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Haven't had a chance to read any of the above comments...so this may have already been mentioned or be way off topic. If I was a landowner and I didn't want the wall on my property and all the land owners 30 or so miles to the left and right of me opted for the wall. Then my property will end up being the funnel point. And I would be screwed.
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Old 02-18-2019, 02:33 PM   #37
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I hunt on the other side of the current wall in Brownsville every year. In speaking with the farmer, the wall disputes his operation far less than the cartels do.

From the land perspective it will be interesting how the border wall, and the possible high speed rail will be argued. I want to say that both are looking to use the same condemnation company.

In one instance prime land in the interior of the Texas's Golden Triangle will be taken, so a 200 MPH train can be run through the ROW. Arguably largely driving down the value of the remaining land. In the other instance, near worthless land next to an active war zone will be taken so that a wall can be erected. Arguably raising the value of the remaining land.

I am just curious to see what kind of values will be paid for each.
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Old 02-18-2019, 07:48 PM   #38
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I am the OP that started the thread. I enjoyed all the post and opinions without all the personal attacks on people that had a different opinion than you. Keep posting your idea's. Enjoy reading them.
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Old 02-18-2019, 10:04 PM   #39
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It's very easy for people to say use the eminent domain just take the property but come 2020 just remember how many of those families are goin vote Democrat
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Old 02-18-2019, 10:20 PM   #40
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It's very easy for people to say use the eminent domain just take the property but come 2020 just remember how many of those families are goin vote Democrat
They were likely going to vote Dem anyway
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Old 02-18-2019, 10:40 PM   #41
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They were likely going to vote Dem anyway
Probably unfortunately Texas is becoming more blue each year & returning to roots as a Dem state. Texas was blue for over a 100 years sad .....

Even worse the next president if 2020 or 2024 can halt all construction & spending of the wall
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Old 02-19-2019, 08:46 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by stykshooter View Post
Probably unfortunately Texas is becoming more blue each year & returning to roots as a Dem state. Texas was blue for over a 100 years sad .....

Even worse the next president if 2020 or 2024 can halt all construction & spending of the wall
You donít think there might be a little correlation between open borders and Texas turning blue, do ya?
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Old 02-19-2019, 10:49 AM   #43
donpablo
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They were likely going to vote Dem anyway
I disagree. Maybe the small land holders but the ones that hold large valuable pieces of property are doing well financially. People who are doing well financially are usually republicans. It's more often the ones who aren't who vote Dem (remember the Dems are the ones who preach rob from the rich and give to the lazy).
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Old 02-19-2019, 10:52 AM   #44
Charles
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Originally Posted by stykshooter View Post
It's very easy for people to say use the eminent domain just take the property but come 2020 just remember how many of those families are goin vote Democrat
You are assuming the land owners don't want the wall.

I'll assume most land owners are sick and tired of dealing with the illegals and drug smugglers.
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Old 02-19-2019, 11:27 AM   #45
batmaninja
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About 4pm on a Saturday, middle of our hunt, doves everywhere. Everyone is having a great time, then we spot some tan guys with backpacks. Then the white trucks and SUVs, tearing threw agriculture fields. Made for an interesting hunt.
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Old 02-19-2019, 02:39 PM   #46
stykshooter
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Originally Posted by Charles View Post
You are assuming the land owners don't want the wall.

I'll assume most land owners are sick and tired of dealing with the illegals and drug smugglers.
I'm sure farmers & ranchers are tired of the problem but do they wanna loose their property, would you give up your home & property ???
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Old 02-19-2019, 03:18 PM   #47
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Just talking and not arguing. What if you had no problem on your property. I'm just curious. I own property on the Colorado river in Mills county. It would hurt me bad on grazing for livestock if they moved the fence 100 yards from the river. No big deal.
Ranchers will still be able to get water through underground piping as I understand it. Utilities still run under some portions of the existing wall.
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Old 02-19-2019, 04:10 PM   #48
Charles
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Originally Posted by stykshooter View Post
I'm sure farmers & ranchers are tired of the problem but do they wanna loose their property, would you give up your home & property ???
Who is giving up their home and property?

My understanding is the wall will be about a 100yds from the river. That's hardly giving up your home. They will be compensated for the property needed to secure the country.

Neither of us are landowners down their, so in reality, neither of us can realistically make an informed decision on if landowners are for or against giving up some land to secure the border.
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Old 02-19-2019, 05:47 PM   #49
donpablo
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My understanding is the wall will be about a 100yds from the river. That's hardly giving up your home.
It will depend. They will build the wall in straight lines. Some will lose more than others. But again, they will probably put in gates for those who insist (probably through a lawyer).

The land that I was looking at that is on the other side of the wall was relatively inexpensive so maybe there will be some deals to be had on some riverfront properties. Who knows, maybe some TBH'ers will snag some good hunting property.
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