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Old 04-05-2019, 09:57 PM   #151
cowman
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I put this on the other thread I started and I am going to put it here:

I will tell you this, I did not look at salaries in 1975 when I wanted to coach. Started at a base pay rate of $8600 per year and $50 per month for driving a bus with 80 screaming kids every morning and $1500 coaching stipend. My 3rd and last year to coach/teach at a salary of the bus/stipend and that salary with another coach keeping count of the time we were at school, at a game or whatever that had to do with our kids, WE averaged .52 cents per hour for that year!

I left after 3 years for the private sector and got back into the teaching field as a Teaching Assistant/Para Professional in Dec of 2102. got my Elementary Certificate in the summer of 2015, could not even get an interview being 63/64, got my Special Ed certification in the summer of 2016 and got hired as the SEBSS teacher at Ramirez Elementary in Lubbock. Taught there until last year when I was transferred to Wester Elementary to start a new program at the school for ED kids. Next year will be my last, but I would still like a raise.

AND, I still challenge anyone to come and stand and work in my shoes for a week and tell me we have enough pay for what we do. I challenge you!!!!!!!!! My salary is slightly over $45,000 per year, but as most teachers have said, I spend a lot of money out of my own pocket for these kids.
So, you left teaching for the private sector because of ****ty pay and you came back to teaching and now complaining of the ****ty pay?
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Old 04-05-2019, 10:07 PM   #152
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The wife has 2 Masters, just finished one in Administration.
She has been teaching for 14 years. Was Teacher of the Year for her high school and Austin ISD several years ago. The Superintendent here knows her by name.

My salary, as a high school graduate, is still $10k/yr more than hers.
It increases 5-10%/year with 5-10k stock options/yr that should be worth $1-3 in 5 years.

I've told her many times to track her hours for a year and write a book.
She stays at school until 9 or 10 with theater students and comes home to get on the computer until 1 or 2am 5 days a week.
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Old 04-05-2019, 10:14 PM   #153
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Problem is that teachers are not payed on a performance based scale. Plain and simple. NO raises for the deadwood and more money for the ones that earn it. Oh wait.. thatís too simple.
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Old 04-05-2019, 11:20 PM   #154
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I haven't read the whole thread and I'm probably not going to so if this has already been pointed out I apologize.

So the question is, would I support a tax increase to cover a raise for teachers.

My point is that you get a tax increase dang near every year. The property tax percentage may stay the same but your property values increase and so the amount you are paying in taxes increases. Follow me? So the problem is that school districts don't keep up with those annual teacher raises closely enough to where you keep up with the cost of living. More dollars come in as a result of property values increasing but that money is not budgeted towards actually keeping the salary scale caught up to the rising cost of living. So then every 20 years or so the state has to step in and make a bigger adjustment. This isn't the first time for this.

So, should property tax rates increase to cover a raise for teachers? No. They should not. Should annual raises given to teachers keep up with the cost of living so we don't end up where we are now? Yes, absolutely. Small incremental adjustments are much easier to swallow. I think over the last 20 years if teacher raises had gone up at the same rate as property values and therefore taxes collected we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Couldn't agree more! Property values go up because of people moving here from out of state (California and Illinois to name a few) driving up the comps!
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Old 04-05-2019, 11:21 PM   #155
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Here is a start do away with the state standardized test that are a huge expense. They don't mean anything anyway.
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Old 04-06-2019, 01:23 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by Chris Boger View Post
Problem is that teachers are not payed on a performance based scale. Plain and simple. NO raises for the deadwood and more money for the ones that earn it. Oh wait.. thatís too simple.
"Paid"

Please tell us how to educate Texas, sir.
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Old 04-06-2019, 03:21 AM   #157
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I thought the lottery was going to teacher pay raises. My wife has taught for 35 years. She loves the kids, and loves her job, but pay is too low, and insurance is too high.
That's what they told us when they were trying to pass the lottery.

I am not in favor of raising property taxes for any reason.
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Old 04-06-2019, 07:34 AM   #158
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No need to raise property taxes to fund teachers. My wife is a teacher and I am against it. We make decent money and live within our means. The problem is with the wasteful admin. My cousin teaches at Klein and loves his job Makes good money. However, they have 21 assistance principals on campus. There is no need for that. Also, just because they make more does not mean they will be better teachers or the kids will learn more.
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Old 04-06-2019, 08:34 AM   #159
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No need to raise property taxes to fund teachers. My wife is a teacher and I am against it. We make decent money and live within our means. The problem is with the wasteful admin. My cousin teaches at Klein and loves his job Makes good money. However, they have 21 assistance principals on campus. There is no need for that. Also, just because they make more does not mean they will be better teachers or the kids will learn more.


We feel the same. My wife and i are teachers and i coach but we donít feel like we make a bad living at all.. do everything we want, save a ton of money.. weíre about to close on 19 acres, etc... we never feel strapped for money. I know itís not 100k for each of us a year. However, i also donít feel like itís a bad living by any means.


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Old 04-06-2019, 08:35 AM   #160
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There are some very enlightening replies on this thread.
Bureaucrats and career politicians lining their pockets is what causes shortages in funds. There is an adequate tax base to fund what we need but greed and waste are the issues. Standardized tests reflect that.
Teachers deserve regular raises. They don't get promotions, they don't have levels to aspire to. Just more work, more criticism and less parental support.
Basing pay raises on performance is ignorant. Depending on demographics and school support structure a teacher can work relentlessly and still come up short. Not every child can or will excel in school.
Is the proposal good? Not in my opinion but a structured promise of annual 3% to 5% COLA raises is fair.

Gary

Last edited by DRT; 04-06-2019 at 08:38 AM.
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Old 04-06-2019, 08:58 AM   #161
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No to raising taxes for teacher raises at this time. In my particular county when they start appraising properties equally then I am ok with it.
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Old 04-06-2019, 09:43 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by DRT View Post
There are some very enlightening replies on this thread.
Bureaucrats and career politicians lining their pockets is what causes shortages in funds. There is an adequate tax base to fund what we need but greed and waste are the issues. Standardized tests reflect that.
Teachers deserve regular raises. They don't get promotions, they don't have levels to aspire to. Just more work, more criticism and less parental support.
Basing pay raises on performance is ignorant. Depending on demographics and school support structure a teacher can work relentlessly and still come up short. Not every child can or will excel in school.
Is the proposal good? Not in my opinion but a structured promise of annual 3% to 5% COLA raises is fair.

Gary


Terrific post


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Old 04-06-2019, 11:56 AM   #163
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Put me on the side of no more tax dollars until these districts can be held accountable for wasteful spending. The current tax base is adequate to support teachers and raises if the funds were allocated and used properly.

School boards reflect much of what is wrong with government and bureaucracies in general. Bunch of people elected into powerful positions that don't have a clue as to how to run a business, balance a budget, negotiate deals and be fiscally responsible. You know, those important things that private sector companies and owners must do or go out of business. Only thing these school districts do when they misappropriate funds is ask the tax payers for more. Heck, they often use scare tactics to get what they want...threaten to cut teachers, security, etc.
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Old 04-06-2019, 01:07 PM   #164
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Put me on the side of no more tax dollars until these districts can be held accountable for wasteful spending. The current tax base is adequate to support teachers and raises if the funds were allocated and used properly.

School boards reflect much of what is wrong with government and bureaucracies in general. Bunch of people elected into powerful positions that don't have a clue as to how to run a business, balance a budget, negotiate deals and be fiscally responsible. You know, those important things that private sector companies and owners must do or go out of business. Only thing these school districts do when they misappropriate funds is ask the tax payers for more. Heck, they often use scare tactics to get what they want...threaten to cut teachers, security, etc.
Have you run to get elected to your school board so you can try to change things and make a difference?
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Old 04-06-2019, 01:27 PM   #165
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I drive a school bus and have been at my current ISD for just over 5 years now. My route is inner city kids that range from 4 years old to 18. I work 5 1/2 hours each day and after deductions, my take home pay is only $670. Yep, $670 a month take home pay. Would any of you drive a 77 passenger bus for 5 1/2 hours a day with your back to these kids the entire time for $670 a month?


Luckily for me, I donít drive a school bus for the money. I worked my butt off for 20 years so Iím in a financial position where I donít have to work anymore. My job is a school bus driver because I have a heart to serve while being a good Christian roll model for these kids. The only problem is people like me are hard to find. There are several people where I work that their bus driving income is there only source of income. Due to the low pay, it is incredibly difficult to get people to drive a school bus. That is why EVERYWHERE you go you see signs saying ďNow hiring school bus driversĒ.


So what kind of person do you want driving your kids to school?
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Old 04-06-2019, 03:36 PM   #166
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No on raising property taxes, better yet eliminate them. I'd rather see a state sales tax increase so that all Texans, legal or otherwise can pay to educate our kids. My problem is that they don't get raises large enough to keep up with inflation yet they always seem to have enough to give the administrator's large raises.
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Old 04-06-2019, 04:17 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by 91cavgt View Post
I drive a school bus and have been at my current ISD for just over 5 years now. My route is inner city kids that range from 4 years old to 18. I work 5 1/2 hours each day and after deductions, my take home pay is only $670. Yep, $670 a month take home pay. Would any of you drive a 77 passenger bus for 5 1/2 hours a day with your back to these kids the entire time for $670 a month?


Luckily for me, I donít drive a school bus for the money. I worked my butt off for 20 years so Iím in a financial position where I donít have to work anymore. My job is a school bus driver because I have a heart to serve while being a good Christian roll model for these kids. The only problem is people like me are hard to find. There are several people where I work that their bus driving income is there only source of income. Due to the low pay, it is incredibly difficult to get people to drive a school bus. That is why EVERYWHERE you go you see signs saying ďNow hiring school bus driversĒ.


So what kind of person do you want driving your kids to school?
Thereís some perspective. No kidding about the bus drivers needed signs, theyíre everywhere around here.

God bless
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Old 04-06-2019, 04:57 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by Chris Boger View Post
Problem is that teachers are not payed on a performance based scale. Plain and simple. NO raises for the deadwood and more money for the ones that earn it. Oh wait.. thatís too simple.
You can't pay on a performance based scale IMO. Im torn on the raise... they get a lot of time off, they knew what it paid going into it, my property taxes are crazy..
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Old 04-06-2019, 08:49 PM   #169
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You can't pay on a performance based scale IMO. Im torn on the raise... they get a lot of time off, they knew what it paid going into it, my property taxes are crazy..
Not as much time off as you would think. It comes to be about equal between any other job where you can take off almost anytime. I know a lot of teachers who have a hard time taking off during the school year. And during summer itís in service and training.
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Old 04-06-2019, 09:57 PM   #170
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Not as much time off as you would think. It comes to be about equal between any other job where you can take off almost anytime. I know a lot of teachers who have a hard time taking off during the school year. And during summer itís in service and training.
Well if you work a 40 hour job ( im not saying they donít work some more hours) with 4 weeks paid vacation and 8 paid holidays it comes out to 232 days worked, a teacher is contracted to work 185 days a year with 13.5 days paid sick/ personal leave so if you took all those days itís 171.5 days worked which is 60.5 less days, and in a 5 day work week would be roughly 12 weeks less work than the 40 hour/week job. So if you take 50k a year divided by the 171.5 days worked it comes to $291.5/day worked. If you take $291.5 and multiply times 232 it comes out to 67,628.. so they donít make that much per year but by the day they make a lot more than what people consider.. and thatís comparing it to a job that gets 4 weeks vacation and 8 paid holidays..
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Old 04-06-2019, 10:30 PM   #171
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You can't pay on a performance based scale IMO. Im torn on the raise... they get a lot of time off, they knew what it paid going into it, my property taxes are crazy..
You do know that teachers are not paid for all that time off..right?
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Old 04-06-2019, 10:43 PM   #172
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No to both, I know a good amount of teachers some being family and considering the time off versus pay it works out and they donít complain. Now they do complain about some of the kids / parents they have to deal with but no matter what profession your in you gotta deal with folks you donít like.


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Old 04-06-2019, 11:39 PM   #173
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I would be fine with teachers being exempt from property taxes
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Old 04-07-2019, 07:19 AM   #174
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What is the difference in responsibilities between a 3rd grade teacher that has taught for 8 years versus 18 years?

$55k is not an insignificant amount of money, especially for entry level. Is that amount average?

Giving blanket raises just because seems illogical.

Do not raise my taxes. Do not give blanket raises.
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Old 04-07-2019, 07:36 AM   #175
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What is the difference in responsibilities between a 3rd grade teacher that has taught for 8 years versus 18 years?

$55k is not an insignificant amount of money, especially for entry level. Is that amount average?

Giving blanket raises just because seems illogical.

Do not raise my taxes. Do not give blanket raises.
The responsibilities between now and 10yrs ago for teachers is not even close. More testing, more training, more hours, less discipline, etc.....
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Old 04-07-2019, 07:37 AM   #176
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Its not an education , property tax thing. All of this could be solved if the state would stop the wasteful spending. Every single state agency is top heavy not just in the Education field. TxDot, DPS , DMV, TDCJ, DSHS, TPWD, TWDB , TRC ect….. are all extremely top heavy. Dishing out huge 6-10 thousand dollar a year raises for directors, creating positions at that same pay grade, and then coming back and asking the state to fund more money for front line staff is crazy. "That's the **** problem" . You can go online and see what every state employee makes , its public knowledge.
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Old 04-07-2019, 08:03 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by rut-ro View Post
No need to raise property taxes to fund teachers. My wife is a teacher and I am against it. We make decent money and live within our means. The problem is with the wasteful admin. My cousin teaches at Klein and loves his job Makes good money. However, they have 21 assistance principals on campus. There is no need for that. Also, just because they make more does not mean they will be better teachers or the kids will learn more.
X 2

And kill all the teacher in service days for cry'n out loud. You could finish the school year 2-3 weeks sooner and be able to cut back on building utility bills.............
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Old 04-07-2019, 08:25 AM   #178
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You do know that teachers are not paid for all that time off..right?
No? You mean the personal/sick days or what?
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Old 04-07-2019, 08:32 AM   #179
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No? You mean the personal/sick days or what?
Summer break, Christmas, Thanksgiving, Spring break.
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Old 04-07-2019, 08:36 AM   #180
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Well if you work a 40 hour job ( im not saying they donít work some more hours) with 4 weeks paid vacation and 8 paid holidays it comes out to 232 days worked, a teacher is contracted to work 185 days a year with 13.5 days paid sick/ personal leave so if you took all those days itís 171.5 days worked which is 60.5 less days, and in a 5 day work week would be roughly 12 weeks less work than the 40 hour/week job. So if you take 50k a year divided by the 171.5 days worked it comes to $291.5/day worked. If you take $291.5 and multiply times 232 it comes out to 67,628.. so they donít make that much per year but by the day they make a lot more than what people consider.. and thatís comparing it to a job that gets 4 weeks vacation and 8 paid holidays..
I get where your coming from when you lay it all out like that, this very close to what my wife makes. I never looked at it like that since she has her paychecks spread out over 12 months. I think itís a great salary and we have no complaints.
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Old 04-07-2019, 08:52 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by randal View Post
Well if you work a 40 hour job ( im not saying they donít work some more hours) with 4 weeks paid vacation and 8 paid holidays it comes out to 232 days worked, a teacher is contracted to work 185 days a year with 13.5 days paid sick/ personal leave so if you took all those days itís 171.5 days worked which is 60.5 less days, and in a 5 day work week would be roughly 12 weeks less work than the 40 hour/week job. So if you take 50k a year divided by the 171.5 days worked it comes to $291.5/day worked. If you take $291.5 and multiply times 232 it comes out to 67,628.. so they donít make that much per year but by the day they make a lot more than what people consider.. and thatís comparing it to a job that gets 4 weeks vacation and 8 paid holidays..
Good post, most people (including teachers) donít realize this.
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Old 04-07-2019, 09:46 AM   #182
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The responsibilities between now and 10yrs ago for teachers is not even close. More testing, more training, more hours, less discipline, etc.....
That's been the same opinion every year for the past 20, if not more. There are only so many hours in the day so something doesn't add up.

It doesn't seem like the full package is compared, such as comparison of pay per day as explained above. Or flexibility to work close to home, no matter where your home is. Very structured yearly schedule. Every year similar methods and material can be reused. Add that up and it is a nice career with fair benefits. Some people have specialty jobs making more, but with that comes some years of skipping vacation all together to meet requirements. Add in two hours of commuting to live in a desired area but work in that specialty area. And if you want to achieve greater salaries than the teacher comparison, get ready for continued education, working long hours, and an increase in stress. All that said, there are degrees that come out of the most expensive colleges who make half of what teachers make.

Capitalism runs this. If there is a greater demand for teachers the pay will increase.
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Old 04-07-2019, 11:07 AM   #183
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Why is it that teachers always get the attention when it comes to pay raises and salaries. I do not know anyone who thinks their profession is probably underpaid and overworked. That is just the way it is. Most people probably made the decision to become a teacher knowing what the pay was before they went to college to become one. Then after a few years in the system they complain that the pay is unfair and that they are overworked. They have every right to try to get better pay and conditions but at the same time no one is forcing them to stay in that profession. Move on if they are not happy.
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Old 04-07-2019, 11:46 AM   #184
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That's been the same opinion every year for the past 20, if not more. There are only so many hours in the day so something doesn't add up.

It doesn't seem like the full package is compared, such as comparison of pay per day as explained above. Or flexibility to work close to home, no matter where your home is. Very structured yearly schedule. Every year similar methods and material can be reused. Add that up and it is a nice career with fair benefits. Some people have specialty jobs making more, but with that comes some years of skipping vacation all together to meet requirements. Add in two hours of commuting to live in a desired area but work in that specialty area. And if you want to achieve greater salaries than the teacher comparison, get ready for continued education, working long hours, and an increase in stress. All that said, there are degrees that come out of the most expensive colleges who make half of what teachers make.

Capitalism runs this. If there is a greater demand for teachers the pay will increase.



Not really true. They are building more and more schools all the time, in turn producing a greater demand for teachers but yet the pay remains the same. Sure, there are people out there willing to accept the jobs but the quality is diminishing. For instance, lets say you have Teacher A that is regarded as the best teacher( goes above and beyond) and Teacher B that is regarded as the worst teacher( does just enough to keep his/her job) with the same # of years experience then their salaries are equal(within a given district). So what's the incentive to work harder? Not exactly capitalism. Supply and demand is only one factor of many contributing to capitalism.
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Old 04-07-2019, 01:05 PM   #185
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The capitalistic part is the teacher has the ability to switch careers to use their full work ethic drive to increase their yearly income. How about nursing? I know a nurse that makes $55k working 2 nights on the weekend.
Parents have the option to send their kids to private schools of their choice if they are not happy with quality.

Pay based on performance seems logical, but now talking of pay discrepancies within the teacher profession is a separate topic.
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Old 04-07-2019, 01:25 PM   #186
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The capitalistic part is the teacher has the ability to switch careers to use their full work ethic drive to increase their yearly income. How about nursing? I know a nurse that makes $55k working 2 nights on the weekend.
Parents have the option to send their kids to private schools of their choice if they are not happy with quality.

Pay based on performance seems logical, but now talking of pay discrepancies within the teacher profession is a separate topic.
So if all the good teachers leave the profession, where does that leave us? Maybe they should just pay the teachers

I don't disagree that there's plenty of mismanagement regarding allocation of funds and there is plenty of 'fluff' within the districts. However, that's not the teachers fault and they are the most important asset regarding education IMO.
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Old 04-07-2019, 01:27 PM   #187
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So if all the good teachers leave the profession, where does that leave us? Maybe they should just pay the teachers

I don't disagree that there's plenty of mismanagement regarding allocation of funds and there is plenty of 'fluff' within the districts. However, that's not the teachers fault and they are the most important asset regarding education IMO.
Beat me to it.
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Old 04-07-2019, 01:47 PM   #188
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And nursing is not mandated by the state.....
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Old 04-07-2019, 01:58 PM   #189
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And nursing is not mandated by the state.....
Being a teacher is not mandated by the state.........
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Old 04-07-2019, 02:10 PM   #190
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Being a teacher is not mandated by the state.........
The TEA sets/mandates the minimum salary and number of days of service required for employees(teachers).
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Old 04-07-2019, 02:14 PM   #191
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The capitalistic part is the teacher has the ability to switch careers to use their full work ethic drive to increase their yearly income. How about nursing? I know a nurse that makes $55k working 2 nights on the weekend.
Parents have the option to send their kids to private schools of their choice if they are not happy with quality.

Pay based on performance seems logical, but now talking of pay discrepancies within the teacher profession is a separate topic.
It would cost you less money to pay a higher property tax ensuring higher quality teachers than footing the bill for tuition of private school.
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Old 04-07-2019, 02:16 PM   #192
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Lets repeat, an increase in property tax on everyone for a proposed blanket raise across all teachers. The reason for this is they work more now than they did 15 years ago, even though 15 years ago the teachers complained about long hours the same. The days are the same length, the year is the same length, the subject matter is the same, the number of kids has decreased from what I've heard. Then go on to complain about bad ones getting paid as much as good ones, which has nothing to do with your own personal income for the job you do. I see this in every industry. Again, people make decisions to become teachers, the money and benefits are well known before you take one step in that direction. If you need more money, go to a different industry. I agree teachers are an important asset, use your good teacher drive to work up through admin and make changes.
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Old 04-07-2019, 02:17 PM   #193
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The TEA sets/mandates the minimum salary and number of days of service required for employees(teachers).
They still don't require you to be a teacher, that is a choice you make yourself
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Old 04-07-2019, 02:18 PM   #194
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Lets repeat, an increase in property tax on everyone for a proposed blanket raise across all teachers. The reason for this is they work more now than they did 15 years ago, even though 15 years ago the teachers complained about long hours the same. The days are the same length, the year is the same length, the subject matter is the same, the number of kids has decreased from what I've heard. Then go on to complain about bad ones getting paid as much as good ones, which has nothing to do with your own personal income for the job you do. I see this in every industry. Again, people make decisions to become teachers, the money and benefits are well known before you take one step in that direction. If you need more money, go to a different industry. I agree teachers are an important asset, use your good teacher drive to work up through admin and make changes.
Yep
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Old 04-07-2019, 02:37 PM   #195
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Lets repeat, an increase in property tax on everyone for a proposed blanket raise across all teachers. The reason for this is they work more now than they did 15 years ago, even though 15 years ago the teachers complained about long hours the same. The days are the same length, the year is the same length, the subject matter is the same, the number of kids has decreased from what I've heard. Then go on to complain about bad ones getting paid as much as good ones, which has nothing to do with your own personal income for the job you do. I see this in every industry. Again, people make decisions to become teachers, the money and benefits are well known before you take one step in that direction. If you need more money, go to a different industry. I agree teachers are an important asset, use your good teacher drive to work up through admin and make changes.
You are missing the point.....teachers are not getting into the industry to get rich. The number of kids is INCREASING(per classroom). While the general subject matter is the same, the methods required and extra training, etc has increased. The benefits are not the same. You are painting a broad generalization with minimal info. it seems.

It's not like the teachers went on strike or something. If you don't think they deserve a raise then that's your prerogative. Like you said, this happens in other industries as well. The middle class is continually being eroded. Teaching is a middle class profession and they are tasked with being responsible for the kids that will run this country in the future(same every generation). Why would you want to skimp on that? If you want to disagree with how it should be funded, then maybe YOU should do something about it. See how that works?

I get it, nobody wants to pay higher taxes. I also don't think it's unreasonable for one of our most important professions to keep up with inflation, cost of living, etc

Most of this is happening due to less and less authority being given to the educators IMO. I feel that if they still had the ability to discipline then this would not be that big of an issue. But what they have to put up with and the lack of ability to control their classrooms and such, it's essentially 'combat' pay.

Last edited by eradicator; 04-07-2019 at 03:03 PM.
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Old 04-07-2019, 02:38 PM   #196
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They still don't require you to be a teacher, that is a choice you make yourself
As long as you admit you were wrong
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Old 04-07-2019, 02:53 PM   #197
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in response to the OP.....No way. Property taxes are already theft.
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Old 04-07-2019, 03:34 PM   #198
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As long as you admit you were wrong
How was i wrong? Since when has the state mandated that any person be a teacher?

You said no one was mandated to be a nurse and i said no one was mandated to be a teacher, both true statements
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Old 04-07-2019, 03:43 PM   #199
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in response to the OP.....No way. Property taxes are already theft.
See post #130.
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Old 04-07-2019, 04:24 PM   #200
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How was i wrong? Since when has the state mandated that any person be a teacher?

You said no one was mandated to be a nurse and i said no one was mandated to be a teacher, both true statements
Move along bud. I never said anyone was mandated to be a nurse or a teacher. I said 'nursing' wasn't mandated by the state. 'Teaching' is mandated by the state. Enjoy the rest of your Sunday!
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