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Old 04-04-2019, 12:25 PM   #1
Burnadell
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Default Teacher pay raises

I am in favor of pay raises for teachers, although I have to wonder why some teachers complain a lot about low pay, conditions, difficult kids, lack of administrative support, etc., etc., etc. when they knew the salary structure before they accepted the jobs. If you don't enjoy the job, do something else.

After reviewing all the complaints about property taxes, I got to wondering how many complain about rising taxes but still want teachers to get raises.

https://discussions.texasbowhunter.c...rchid=39880392

I know many will complain about wasted tax revenues, and I am sure there is some of that, especially in larger districts. I have served on my local White Oak ISD board and the Kilgore College board, and I can testify that there was a constant challenge of trying to fund annual increases in operations and raises while not raising taxes more than necessary. Money was always tight and not wasted.

So..how many on TBH are willing for their property taxes to increase (probably considerably) to pay for teachers raises?

I'm not really wanting another discussion about bonds, wasting revenues, stupid administrative decisions, et. Just yes or no about supporting increased property taxes to fund raises.

Last edited by Burnadell; 04-04-2019 at 12:57 PM.
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Old 04-04-2019, 12:31 PM   #2
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Well I complained about not getting a tax return and I was advised I should be thankful I only had to pay with making 38,000 thousand this yr. and that would buy a bunch of steaks.

My wife's a teacher. Our districts are severely pizz poor ran. Supt. makes 3rd highest salary in the State and we are in shambles.
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Old 04-04-2019, 12:40 PM   #3
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Well I complained about not getting a tax return and I was advised I should be thankful I only had to pay with making 38,000 thousand this yr. and that would buy a bunch of steaks.

My wife's a teacher. Our districts are severely pizz poor ran. Supt. makes 3rd highest salary in the State and we are in shambles.
Agreed and when teachers here get $200 raises and people in Central office get $5000 to $20,000 raises it does not feel good!

AND, the lottery was voted into Texas for the benefit of schools, where is that money? Supposedly to alleviate the raising of property taxes.

Basically this is a dang if you do and dang if you don't subject but when you realize that teachers spend more awake time with these kids than the parents do during the week I think we deserve a raise.

I am torn on the property tax situation, yes i want that raise, but I also do not wnat my property taxes to skyrocket.
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Old 04-04-2019, 12:43 PM   #4
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Well I complained about not getting a tax return and I was advised I should be thankful I only had to pay with making 38,000 thousand this yr. and that would buy a bunch of steaks.

My wife's a teacher. Our districts are severely pizz poor ran. Supt. makes 3rd highest salary in the State and we are in shambles.
So are you in favor of increasing property taxes or not? Yes or no.

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Originally Posted by Mudslinger View Post
Agreed and when teachers here get $200 raises and people in Central office get $5000 to $20,000 raises it does not feel good!

AND, the lottery was voted into Texas for the benefit of schools, where is that money? Supposedly to alleviate the raising of property taxes.

Basically this is a dang if you do and dang if you don't subject but when you realize that teachers spend more awake time with these kids than the parents do during the week I think we deserve a raise.

I am torn on the property tax situation, yes i want that raise, but I also do not wnat my property taxes to skyrocket.
Cop out!

Funding $5000 raises for every teacher x however many teachers means substantial funding requirements every year. How are teachers paid? Property taxes.

Yes or no?
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Old 04-04-2019, 12:45 PM   #5
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Agreed and when teachers here get $200 raises and people in Central office get $5000 to $20,000 raises it does not feel good!

AND, the lottery was voted into Texas for the benefit of schools, where is that money? Supposedly to alleviate the raising of property taxes.

Basically this is a dang if you do and dang if you don't subject but when you realize that teachers spend more awake time with these kids than the parents do during the week I think we deserve a raise.

I am torn on the property tax situation, yes i want that raise, but I also do not wnat my property taxes to skyrocket.
Well go back to school and get your masters or phd and then put in your 10+ years so you can be at central office and get those big raises too! That attitude is like these kids that want everything, now, and free.
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Old 04-04-2019, 12:45 PM   #6
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Here's the way I view taxes and the government. I'm willing to accept a 1% increase in my taxes for every 10% the government shows me in cuts. Show me you're willing to eliminate waste before you get more money.
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Old 04-04-2019, 12:46 PM   #7
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Well go back to school and get your masters or phd and then put in your 10+ years so you can be at central office and get those big raises too! That attitude is like these kids that want everything, now, and free.
So, yes or no?
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Old 04-04-2019, 12:48 PM   #8
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Pay raises for Teachers and paras. Yes. I am in the profession and agree with your first statement. Free market. Was there some kind of miscommunication on what you were going to make? I left a job as an accountant and took a massive haircut becoming an educator. Wouldn't have it any other way. Adults are the problem in this world. Kids and those I teach (young adults) are awesome. Smarter than most adults actually I have met. They don't believe they news and media hype like 90 percent of adults do. They think for themselves and have a world of knowledge at their fingertips. This current generation will be the one to change it all. They are on the cusp of the technological revolution.
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Old 04-04-2019, 12:50 PM   #9
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Well go back to school and get your masters or phd and then put in your 10+ years so you can be at central office and get those big raises too! That attitude is like these kids that want everything, now, and free.
My wife has the so called "degrees" you speak of and my daughter is headed that way as well, she is a teacher as well.

It's not about wanting anything free and being a kid as you refer. Believe it or not there are some teachers who really like the job of teaching, my wife has been doing it for 31 yrs.

While central office and the pencil pushers abound and keep making big money for titles under their names the classroom teachers have and continue to be over looked.

BTW your attitude sounds like one of the pencil pushers. A title, big money and sitting on their azzez.

And no to taxes Burn.
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Old 04-04-2019, 12:51 PM   #10
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Here's the way I view taxes and the government. I'm willing to accept a 1% increase in my taxes for every 10% the government shows me in cuts. Show me you're willing to eliminate waste before you get more money.
Yes or no? Support teacher raises or not? Support increasing property taxes or not?

I firmly believe that there is very little, if any, waste in small school districts. There simply isn't that much cushion in their budgets.

School taxes make up the largest % of property taxes, by far, in the Texas taxing districts.
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Old 04-04-2019, 12:53 PM   #11
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My wife has the so called "degrees" you speak of and my daughter is headed that way as well, she is a teacher as well.

It's not about wanting anything free and being a kid as you refer. Believe it or not there are some teachers who really like the job of teaching, my wife has been doing it for 31 yrs.

While central office and the pencil pushers abound and keep making big money for titles under their names the classroom teachers have and continue to be over looked.

BTW your attitude sounds like one of the pencil pushers. A title, big money and sitting on their azzez.

And no to taxes Burn.
So you are against the large teacher raises?
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Old 04-04-2019, 12:54 PM   #12
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Pay raises for Teachers and paras. Yes. I am in the profession and agree with your first statement. Free market. Was there some kind of miscommunication on what you were going to make? I left a job as an accountant and took a massive haircut becoming an educator. Wouldn't have it any other way. Adults are the problem in this world. Kids and those I teach (young adults) are awesome. Smarter than most adults actually I have met. They don't believe they news and media hype like 90 percent of adults do. They think for themselves and have a world of knowledge at their fingertips. This current generation will be the one to change it all. They are on the cusp of the technological revolution.
So, I am assuming you are in favor of increasing property taxes?
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Old 04-04-2019, 12:55 PM   #13
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NO!!!

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Old 04-04-2019, 12:57 PM   #14
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Short answer is no raise at taxpayer expense. But there is no way the money is not already there.

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Agreed and when teachers here get $200 raises and people in Central office get $5000 to $20,000 raises it does not feel good!
I agree. A quick look at superintendent shows the statewide average salary is over $140,000 with the highest being over $400k. Put a cap on super's at $125k and adjust the admin down from there (the same way teachers salaries are structured for experience, etc.). I bet that alone would cover the majority of the raises.

You could do the same for high school football coaches and cap it at $100k and and adjust down from there for assistants, etc. Then start looking at uniform costs (band, football, basketball, etc.). They don't need the same costing uniforms that colleges have.

Then there are the fancy cars the school pd drive and the list can go on forever.

The money is there without raising the property taxes.

Last edited by cehorn; 04-04-2019 at 01:00 PM.
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Old 04-04-2019, 12:58 PM   #15
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So, I am assuming you are in favor of increasing property taxes?
Yes and bonds that are for new schools, performing arts centers, CTE centers, basic athletic facilities. I am never in favor of extravagant football stadiums that are not needed.
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Old 04-04-2019, 01:01 PM   #16
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Short answer is no raise at taxpayer expense. But there is no way the money is not already there.



I agree. A quick look at superintendent shows the average salary is over $140,000 with the highest being over $400k. Put a cap on super's at $125k and adjust the admin down from there (the same way teachers salaries are structured for experience, etc.). I bet that alone would cover the majority of the raises.

You could do the same for high school football coaches and cap it at $100k and and adjust down from there for assistants, etc. Then start looking at uniform costs (band, football, basketball, etc.). They don't need the same costing uniforms that colleges have.

Then there are the fancy cars the school pd drive and the list can go on forever.

The money is there without raising the property taxes.
Okay, so you save $15m on the Supt's salary. How many teachers in the Pflugerville district? Multiply that number times $5m. How will that get funded? No way by cutting that much in expenses EVERY year.
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Old 04-04-2019, 01:03 PM   #17
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No I’m not, because enough money is spent on sports to give teachers a pay raise but most of the alumni and certainly the board members are all about sports and less about education. No discussion about teacher pay raises is complete (or serious) without discussing wasted money.
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Old 04-04-2019, 01:05 PM   #18
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I am not in favor of raising property taxes. The state of Texas has seen tremendous increases in tax assessed values during this real estate cycle and the amount of property tax collected has increased significantly. Not only have property values increased but taxing jurisdictions have also increased the tax rate so they are getting a bigger piece of a bigger pie. If throwing more money at education is the fix to the problem then we would have seen some dividends materialize already due to the tremendous increase in taxes flowing in but IMO there have not been any recognizable benefit displayed through a better Texas school system.

The whole system needs to be scrapped and started over. Throwing more money at the heaping pile of junk isn't the solution. There has to be a line drawn in the sand on property taxes because it is downright outrageous the amount of property taxes we pay in Texas.

My wife is a teacher. She along with everyone else knew the pay and benefits when they signed up. Its no secret. Texas has the best job market in the US for people seeking employment. With the level of dysfunction in Texas public schools, combined with the pay range, there is no reason to stay in a role as a teacher in the current job market IMO unless its your lifelong passion and a labor of love. If you're in it for the money then you made a wrong turn somewhere.
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Old 04-04-2019, 01:06 PM   #19
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No Iím not, because enough money is spent on sports to give teachers a pay raise but most of the alumni and certainly the board members are all about sports and less about education. No discussion about teacher pay raises is complete (or serious) without discussing wasted money.
So you want to cut out all sports?

Have you ever reviewed your school district's budget to ferret out any waste?
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Old 04-04-2019, 01:10 PM   #20
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No, I’m not in favor of increasing my taxes for teacher raises
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Old 04-04-2019, 01:12 PM   #21
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No, Iím not in favor of increasing my taxes for teacher raises
So are you against the teacher raises?
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Old 04-04-2019, 01:13 PM   #22
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I’d pay more if I knew it was going to teachers pay raises. I have paid more taxes every year but don’t think teachers have gotten any raises
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Old 04-04-2019, 01:13 PM   #23
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Okay, so you save $15m on the Supt's salary. How many teachers in the Pflugerville district? Multiply that number times $5m. How will that get funded? No way by cutting that much in expenses EVERY year.
The Super's salary is a start or an example. The example also includes everyone that works in the admin building, coaches, etc. The whole system needs to be looked at statewide. How many $5k raises could be handed out for the cost of Allen's football stadium? 12,000. Or Pflugerville's for that matter? 5160. And then add the cost of busing players, band members etc. across town (a small town) for a home game instead of using the stadium adjacent to the school. PFISD just paid $50k an acre for the land for the last high school when every bit of land around there was selling for $30k an acre tops. The waste may not be much in smaller districts but it is ridiculous in the larger ones.

I see your point but at the same time the money is there within the govt system. It may be apples and oranges although I think it is a lot closer than that but it's like the old saying "How come you hear about social security running out but never hear about welfare running out of money". The list is endless that money can be found for until it is teacher's pay...
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Old 04-04-2019, 01:15 PM   #24
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Well go back to school and get your masters or phd and then put in your 10+ years so you can be at central office and get those big raises too! That attitude is like these kids that want everything, now, and free.
Ignorant. You have no idea what you are talking about and it shows.
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Old 04-04-2019, 01:18 PM   #25
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So are you against the teacher raises?
You are similar in mindset to the left
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Old 04-04-2019, 01:19 PM   #26
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NO! I don't have kids and never will. I have paid enough school taxes already.
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Old 04-04-2019, 01:20 PM   #27
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my property taxes go up every year anyway. Might as well give the teachers a raise!
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Old 04-04-2019, 01:23 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by cehorn View Post
The Super's salary is a start or an example. The example also includes everyone that works in the admin building, coaches, etc. The whole system needs to be looked at statewide. How many $5k raises could be handed out for the cost of Allen's football stadium? 12,000. Or Pflugerville's for that matter? 5160. And then add the cost of busing players, band members etc. across town (a small town) for a home game instead of using the stadium adjacent to the school. PFISD just paid $50k an acre for the land for the last high school when every bit of land around there was selling for $30k an acre tops. The waste may not be much in smaller districts but it is ridiculous in the larger ones.

I see your point but at the same time the money is there within the govt system. It may be apples and oranges although I think it is a lot closer than that but it's like the old saying "How come you hear about social security running out but never hear about welfare running out of money". The list is endless that money can be found for until it is teacher's pay...
Only the tip of the iceberg.

Administration, and politics are castrating the education system in this state. If those involved were willing to do their actual jobs, quit wasting money and resources, and put the actual education of our kids first....this could all be funded with minimal expense to the average taxpayer.

To say nothing of the misappropriation of lottery funds originally intended for education.


For the time being, yes I support raising property taxes for the purpose of raising teacher's salaries. They are going to raise them anyway, we might as well spend it wisely for once...
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Old 04-04-2019, 01:27 PM   #29
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You are similar in mindset to the left
Yeah, I know. I am a flaming liberal snowflake and don't know what to do about it. For the life of me, I cannot think logically. That's just the way I am, and I hate myself for it!
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Old 04-04-2019, 01:30 PM   #30
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I guess with only given an opportunity to either vote yes or no, I would have to go YES.

But I do think there area so many other ways to fund the teachers pay raises that do not include additional taxation, with some mentioned above.

Rwc
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Old 04-04-2019, 01:32 PM   #31
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And yes, my wife is a teacher....in the same district where I pay property taxes.
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Old 04-04-2019, 01:32 PM   #32
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I am fine with my property taxes going up to increase teachers pay. Thank a Teacher you can read this...…..
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Old 04-04-2019, 01:34 PM   #33
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My taxes go up every year anyway. I would continue to pay higher taxes for teachers to be paid more, if I knew it was ACTUALLY going DIRECTLY to teacher salary.
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Old 04-04-2019, 01:35 PM   #34
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Yeah, I know. I am a flaming liberal snowflake and don't know what to do about it. For the life of me, I cannot think logically. That's just the way I am, and I hate myself for it!
Good one Burnadell!!!!!!!
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Old 04-04-2019, 01:36 PM   #35
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I guess with only given an opportunity to either vote yes or no, I would have to go YES.

But I do think there area so many other ways to fund the teachers pay raises that do not include additional taxation, with some mentioned above.

Rwc
Ya think Crawford would give up sports?
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Old 04-04-2019, 01:37 PM   #36
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I am in favor of pay raises for teachers, although I have to wonder why some teachers complain a lot about low pay, conditions, difficult kids, lack of administrative support, etc., etc., etc. when they knew the salary structure before they accepted the jobs. If you don't enjoy the job, do something else.

After reviewing all the complaints about property taxes, I got to wondering how many complain about rising taxes but still want teachers to get raises.

https://discussions.texasbowhunter.c...rchid=39880392

I know many will complain about wasted tax revenues, and I am sure there is some of that, especially in larger districts. I have served on my local White Oak ISD board and the Kilgore College board, and I can testify that there was a constant challenge of trying to fund annual increases in operations and raises while not raising taxes more than necessary. Money was always tight and not wasted.

So..how many on TBH are willing for their property taxes to increase (probably considerably) to pay for teachers raises?

I'm not really wanting another discussion about bonds, wasting revenues, stupid administrative decisions, et. Just yes or no about supporting increased property taxes to fund raises.
NO.

NO. NO. NO.

no no no no

Heck NO.


Infinity of NO.
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Old 04-04-2019, 01:37 PM   #37
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Hell to the NO! X10. Property taxes are too dam high!
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Old 04-04-2019, 01:39 PM   #38
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So you want to cut out all sports?

Have you ever reviewed your school district's budget to ferret out any waste?
I know this is not a popular view, but yes, if school had no sports that would be fine. If you want sports, get into YOUR pocket, not mine. Troup spent over $800,000 on their track and field a few years ago when teachers were furnishing some school supplies out of their pockets. That is disgraceful IMO. My wife has been working for the school system for some time so I am familiar with what happens there.
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Old 04-04-2019, 01:40 PM   #39
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Ya think Crawford would give up sports?
No sir, not a chance!
But I do believe the state could give a up a few things that could/would bridge the gap............................I am still sticking to YES for your original question.

Rwc
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Old 04-04-2019, 01:42 PM   #40
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Only the tip of the iceberg.

Administration, and politics are castrating the education system in this state. If those involved were willing to do their actual jobs, quit wasting money and resources, and put the actual education of our kids first....this could all be funded with minimal expense to the average taxpayer.

To say nothing of the misappropriation of lottery funds originally intended for education.


For the time being, yes I support raising property taxes for the purpose of raising teacher's salaries. They are going to raise them anyway, we might as well spend it wisely for once...
I know that's right.
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Old 04-04-2019, 01:43 PM   #41
bullhead44
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Originally Posted by Burnadell View Post
Ya think Crawford would give up sports?
I grew up there and i would think they would not.
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Old 04-04-2019, 01:43 PM   #42
Graysonhogs
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Originally Posted by Burnadell View Post
Yeah, I know. I am a flaming liberal snowflake and don't know what to do about it. For the life of me, I cannot think logically. That's just the way I am, and I hate myself for it!
It's ok, we love you anyway.
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Old 04-04-2019, 01:43 PM   #43
Hunteraudit
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I’m in favor of raises and don’t mind paying for it. Though I will say the way OP has framed this debate doesn’t reflect reality.

Last edited by Hunteraudit; 04-04-2019 at 01:46 PM.
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Old 04-04-2019, 01:44 PM   #44
mikemorvan
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Originally Posted by Burnadell View Post
Okay, so you save $15m on the Supt's salary. How many teachers in the Pflugerville district? Multiply that number times $5m. How will that get funded? No way by cutting that much in expenses EVERY year.
Are we talking about "m's" or "k's" ?

On a semi-serious note: Where do education vouchers fit into this question. What about privatizing the whole education system?

My wife and i were able to send our kids to small private schools that we were very satisfied with. And, i feel the expense and sacrifices were well worth it. We'd do it again. Our kids never spent a minute in a public school class room. We've paid for the education of more than a few kids over the years. Can i get a refund?

I can't operate the internet well enough to find out how many taxpayers there are in the state, and how many public school teachers there are. I'd like to see some simple math that would show what amount of additional tax dollars we're talking about. Are we talking about $500 additional per tax payer per year? $42 / month? More? Less? What numbers are we talking about.
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Old 04-04-2019, 01:45 PM   #45
elhefe
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I echo what Dale said. Burnadell, I get it. No one wants to raise taxes but every teacher wants a raise. There is so much waste in the school system and the majority of teachers are good to great and go above and beyond. You’re pragmatic response seems to indicate that teachers should just get over it. This is my assumption and could be wrong but I would suggest that your intuition on teachers roles or extra work etc... is probably lacking.
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Old 04-04-2019, 01:46 PM   #46
Dudley
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I am in education and I don't want to raise my property taxes so teachers can get a raise. The way the state funds education is the issue. Reduce, and cap, property taxes and increase sales tax and other consumer-type taxes. And give teachers a raise.
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Old 04-04-2019, 01:48 PM   #47
Gclyde28
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Im for teacher raises. I am not for an increase in property tax rate. The appraised value on my home has increased nearly 100% since I bought it 6 years ago and I cant even fight it because the recent comps are all still over the appraised rate. Therefore the amount of taxes I pay on my property has nearly doubled in that same span of time and it didnt even required a tax rate increase. Just keep the economy booming and property taxes will continue to increase to allow for the teacher pay raises as property values continue to rise.
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Old 04-04-2019, 01:50 PM   #48
SmTx
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Legalize it.. Give teachers a raise
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Old 04-04-2019, 01:50 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glen View Post
Iíd pay more if I knew it was going to teachers pay raises. I have paid more taxes every year but donít think teachers have gotten any raises
This.
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Old 04-04-2019, 01:50 PM   #50
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No. Property taxes are already too high.
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