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Old 06-12-2019, 07:16 AM   #1
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Old 06-12-2019, 07:31 AM   #2
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Old 06-12-2019, 07:36 AM   #3
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I love when a very educated engineer comes to our small machine shop and asks this college dropout to design something for him/her. Can't beat experience away from a computer.
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Old 06-12-2019, 08:04 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by UncleBubba View Post
I love when a very educated engineer comes to our small machine shop and asks this college dropout to design something for him/her. Can't beat experience away from a computer.
Yes sir you can... Experience AND education...
I been at it for 40 years... When folks ask me if I'm an en-ga-near, I tell 'em, "Yea, but I do my best not to ACT like one!"...
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Old 06-12-2019, 08:10 AM   #5
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Yes sir you can... Experience AND education...
I been at it for 40 years... When folks ask me if I'm an en-ga-near, I tell 'em, "Yea, but I do my best not to ACT like one!"...
30+ years in the trade, and that is how I try to act. KJ
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Old 06-12-2019, 11:11 AM   #6
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Welders - like engineers, but with common sense!!
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Old 06-12-2019, 11:15 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by UncleBubba View Post
I love when a very educated engineer comes to our small machine shop and asks this college dropout to design something for him/her. Can't beat experience away from a computer.
THIS! all the time in our shop
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Old 06-12-2019, 11:28 AM   #8
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I've been a welder/fabricator most of my life and now I work in engineering at NASA. There are some smart guys that work here but we have our fair share of special ones.
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Old 06-12-2019, 11:34 AM   #9
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As a machinist in my 26th year thats hilarious, and I do know its pretty easy for a guy on the shop floor to make fun of them, but I have learned to appreciate a good engineer!
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Old 06-12-2019, 12:43 PM   #10
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The term "engineer" is a huge umbrella...I hate to break it to you but not all engineers are (or want to be) designers. Most engineers are highly specialized and aren't Jacks of all trades. I've been a circuit board designer and embedded programmer for nearly 15 years and I wouldn't hesitate to find a machinist and ask them to design me a mechanical fixture b/c I know they could do a far better job than if I tried to cobble something together.
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Old 06-12-2019, 12:44 PM   #11
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That an Engineer will be: A) intelligent and B) have a lot of knowledge, is a given. You don't get though an Engineering program without A & if you do get though that program you'll have acquired B.

The real question with Engineers is can they do anything with that intelligence & knowledge? And do they have any mechanical aptitude?

Working as an Mechanical Engineer for a long time (graduated in 1990), I've met & worked with a lot of other Engineers. None were dumb, but many looked that way at times due to an inability to apply that knowledge and/or a lack of mechanical aptitude.

The best Engineers I've known have been either farm boys or guys who had long time hobbies that involved mechanical things that they had to work on/repair/modify/improve.

Unfortunately, there are lots of 'know it all' Engineers out there too. Very hard to deal with since they are never wrong or never want to admit there is something they don't know.

Other Engineers don't like those Engineers either.
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Old 06-12-2019, 12:49 PM   #12
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Millwrights/Machinists makes engineers look good all the time!
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Old 06-12-2019, 01:05 PM   #13
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I think 90% of the time - it is because engineers are not taught how to communicate with the non-engineering community. It is a soft skill that an engineer has to learn if they want to be successful or less frustrated in their career.
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Old 06-12-2019, 01:16 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by SwampRabbit View Post
I think 90% of the time - it is because engineers are not taught how to communicate with the non-engineering community. It is a soft skill that an engineer has to learn if they want to be successful or less frustrated in their career.
This is very true. I’ve worked with several engineers across varying fields(mechanical, structural, electrical, etc). Some of those people were incredibly smart, but they lacked the ability to communicate effectively. Sometimes we’re just too dumb to understand what they’re saying.
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Old 06-12-2019, 01:34 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by KX500 View Post
That an Engineer will be: A) intelligent and B) have a lot of knowledge, is a given. You don't get though an Engineering program without A & if you do get though that program you'll have acquired B.

The real question with Engineers is can they do anything with that intelligence & knowledge? And do they have any mechanical aptitude?

Working as an Mechanical Engineer for a long time (graduated in 1990), I've met & worked with a lot of other Engineers. None were dumb, but many looked that way at times due to an inability to apply that knowledge and/or a lack of mechanical aptitude.

The best Engineers I've known have been either farm boys or guys who had long time hobbies that involved mechanical things that they had to work on/repair/modify/improve.

Unfortunately, there are lots of 'know it all' Engineers out there too. Very hard to deal with since they are never wrong or never want to admit there is something they don't know.

Other Engineers don't like those Engineers either.


I have interviewed hundreds of people for engineering positions and it’s hard to find folks with good practical skills in conjunction sound engineering knowledge. I always look for guys that used to be welders/machinists/mechanics/plumbers and then went to engineering school. One question I always ask is if they can tell me the firing order of a small block Chevrolet.

I had a female intern once call out a RH thread on a part when it needed to be LH due to it being a rotating device. When the error was discovered on the prototype she asked why we couldn’t just turn the threaded stud around that went into the hole......


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Old 06-12-2019, 01:59 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Bullseye07 View Post
This is very true. I’ve worked with several engineers across varying fields(mechanical, structural, electrical, etc). Some of those people were incredibly smart, but they lacked the ability to communicate effectively. Sometimes we’re just too dumb to understand what they’re saying.
When I worked product design and firmware design at a large computer / server / storage / networking company in NW Houston awhile back, we referred to that type of engineer as a 'pancake and pizza' engineer. Slide the pancakes and pizza under the door. Never let them talk to a perspective customer! KJ
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Old 06-12-2019, 03:20 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by 175gr7.62 View Post
I have interviewed hundreds of people for engineering positions and it’s hard to find folks with good practical skills in conjunction sound engineering knowledge. I always look for guys that used to be welders/machinists/mechanics/plumbers and then went to engineering school. One question I always ask is if they can tell me the firing order of a small block Chevrolet.

I had a female intern once call out a RH thread on a part when it needed to be LH due to it being a rotating device. When the error was discovered on the prototype she asked why we couldn’t just turn the threaded stud around that went into the hole......


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Something else that might help you, is to ask for a "Marine" engineer as opposed to a mech.E... Marine engineers are Mech.E's with a lot of hands on training and less theory... Marine engineers must know how things are designed, but the also must know how to fix 'em when they break... You don't pull something out and "send it in for repair" when you're a thousand miles from land... you gotta know how to make do and pull wrenches, weld, bend grind and such... One of my degrees is in Marine Engineering... Comin' from a farm background, helped though I must say... I could already weld/burn and read a measuring tape before I left for school...

Ask a prospect to give you the measurement of something using a standard old Stanley metal tape... That'll tell you a lot too! It's 24 inches and 3 of those little marks...
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Old 06-12-2019, 03:37 PM   #18
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As a machinist in my 26th year thats hilarious, and I do know its pretty easy for a guy on the shop floor to make fun of them, but I have learned to appreciate a good engineer!
I love good engineers. They bring me a picture and say build this please
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Old 06-12-2019, 03:41 PM   #19
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Tractor design isn't too bad but I wish EVERY automotive engineer had to spend at least two years in a repair shop. That way we wouldn't have to burn the hide off our arms trying to get to the oil filter or have to pull the cab off a pickup to get to the engine.
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Old 06-12-2019, 04:17 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by SaltwaterSlick View Post
Something else that might help you, is to ask for a "Marine" engineer as opposed to a mech.E... Marine engineers are Mech.E's with a lot of hands on training and less theory... Marine engineers must know how things are designed, but the also must know how to fix 'em when they break... You don't pull something out and "send it in for repair" when you're a thousand miles from land... you gotta know how to make do and pull wrenches, weld, bend grind and such... One of my degrees is in Marine Engineering... Comin' from a farm background, helped though I must say... I could already weld/burn and read a measuring tape before I left for school...

Ask a prospect to give you the measurement of something using a standard old Stanley metal tape... That'll tell you a lot too! It's 24 inches and 3 of those little marks...
One of the best engineers I ever hired or worked with was a Russian cat that managed to get to the US back in 96. He had a Masters Degree from St. Petersburg Polytechnic and had been a submarine officer in the Russian Navy. That sucker could do anything. He said he had to be good because Russian subs were pieces of sheet and if you couldn't fix them you were dead.
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Old 06-12-2019, 08:39 PM   #21
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I got my degree at the tender age of 33. Work 45-55 hours a week and take night classes. I had 14 years experience with boilers, water treatment, and was certified to weld vertical, flat, and overhead. The shop guys loved me, because they knew if I drew it, it could be made from my prints. I had worked with all of them. They trusted me. The engineers that already knew it all were a major annoyance to me. I'm 68 now, and retired.
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Old 06-12-2019, 08:50 PM   #22
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I've been a welder/fabricator most of my life and now I work in engineering at NASA. There are some smart guys that work here but we have our fair share of special ones.


My wife’s senior design project was with NASA. She’s a mechanical engineer off 290 and Telge in Houston. She would love to work for nasa. Lol


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Old 06-12-2019, 09:04 PM   #23
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I have seen a few in the mechanical contracting business. I could tell from a machine room setup if the design guy had a marine background or not. Pump packings and non sealed bearings. You don't under or over tighten a mechanical seal, and you don't over or under lube a sealed bearing. Now, that's just my preference. They typically aren't teaching that in schools nowadays.
Seen lots of hvac designs that were out there. And when the building wont cool, and the system is running at capacity, it must be the contractors fault. I will say most of the building problems I have seen are air balance, after 3 different tenant finish contractors monkeyed with the original design, without ever looking at it.
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Old 06-12-2019, 09:46 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Pstraw View Post
Tractor design isn't too bad but I wish EVERY automotive engineer had to spend at least two years in a repair shop. That way we wouldn't have to burn the hide off our arms trying to get to the oil filter or have to pull the cab off a pickup to get to the engine.
You should see what it's like working on semiconductor manufacturing equipment. It can take 4-5 hours to replace a part held on by two screws because of all the other crap in the way. It gets even more difficult considering how complex some of the systems are. A stepper involves mechanical, electrical, robotic, pneumatic, fiber optic, optical, electro magnetic, and gas laser systems all rolled into one machine.
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Old 06-12-2019, 10:47 PM   #25
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I agree there are some that can grasp the concepts in an educational setting but struggle to apply their knowledge in a real world application. I’m not a design engineer but I have taken an engineering product design course in my past. I had to do a design project to reduce cost in manufacturing an injection molded part.
I work as a process engineer & enjoy more of hands on approach & not sit at a computer all day. Most of my computer work is crunching data analysis on process capability.
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Old 06-12-2019, 11:15 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by 175gr7.62 View Post
One question I always ask is if they can tell me the firing order of a small block Chevrolet.
Do you give them extra points if they have to map it out with their fingers or on a paper?
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Old 06-13-2019, 07:05 AM   #27
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Engineer's they can tell you how everything works but they can't work on everything.
My father is a very successful Engineer from TI. That's why I am a Technician.

My Dad retired from TI and had a lot to do with them being where they are today. Smart man and a great dad. He led the design team for the LED read out. Tomahawk Guidance system, TI computers and their TI 84 calculates, he did it all. Holds a patent on the Aluminum retention maze and getter


Abstract
Aluminum or aluminum foil is placed in communication with the interior of a cold cathode gas discharge display chamber to prevent undesirable quantities of mercury from entering the display chamber and to absorb undesirable O.sub.2 and H.sub.2 O which may evolve during the life of the display device.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Inventors: Paine, Jr.; Rigaud B. (Dallas, TX), Peshock, Jr.; Michael (Richardson, TX)
Assignee: Texas Instruments Incorporated (Dallas, TX)

Appl. No.: 05/459,819
Filed: April 10, 1974

Last edited by Texas Tracker; 06-13-2019 at 07:20 AM.
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Old 06-13-2019, 08:59 AM   #28
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Yup. Goes for people of all trades. Had guys like that in the steel mill,and I know guys like that wearing the engineer/software developer/engineer badge now too.

Experience doesnt always help either... got a guy who could be my dads dad that recently refused to do something that helps give diagnostic information to users cause "it's too hard".
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Old 06-13-2019, 09:10 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by UncleBubba View Post
I love when a very educated engineer comes to our small machine shop and asks this college dropout to design something for him/her. Can't beat experience away from a computer.
^^^^^^^^^ This.. see this on a daily basis.... common sense was not on the learning schedule.. for some of them
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Old 06-13-2019, 09:15 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Texas Tracker View Post
Engineer's they can tell you how everything works but they can't work on everything.
My father is a very successful Engineer from TI. That's why I am a Technician.

My Dad retired from TI and had a lot to do with them being where they are today. Smart man and a great dad. He led the design team for the LED read out. Tomahawk Guidance system, TI computers and their TI 84 calculates, he did it all. Holds a patent on the Aluminum retention maze and getter


Abstract
Aluminum or aluminum foil is placed in communication with the interior of a cold cathode gas discharge display chamber to prevent undesirable quantities of mercury from entering the display chamber and to absorb undesirable O.sub.2 and H.sub.2 O which may evolve during the life of the display device.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Inventors: Paine, Jr.; Rigaud B. (Dallas, TX), Peshock, Jr.; Michael (Richardson, TX)
Assignee: Texas Instruments Incorporated (Dallas, TX)

Appl. No.: 05/459,819
Filed: April 10, 1974
Love this post!
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Old 06-13-2019, 09:18 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by ktjones View Post
When I worked product design and firmware design at a large computer / server / storage / networking company in NW Houston awhile back, we referred to that type of engineer as a 'pancake and pizza' engineer. Slide the pancakes and pizza under the door. Never let them talk to a perspective customer! KJ
Small world!
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Old 06-13-2019, 11:05 AM   #32
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Experience is not always what its cracked up to be. I've known some that had 20 (or more) years of experience and some that had 1 year of experience 20 (or more) times.
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Old 06-13-2019, 12:18 PM   #33
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Works both ways... You can have years and years of experience at doing things VERY wrong and get REALLY good at same as you can being very GOOD at doing things RIGHT...
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Old 06-13-2019, 01:06 PM   #34
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Engineer's they can tell you how everything works but they can't work on everything.
My father is a very successful Engineer from TI. That's why I am a Technician.

My Dad retired from TI and had a lot to do with them being where they are today. Smart man and a great dad. He led the design team for the LED read out. Tomahawk Guidance system, TI computers and their TI 84 calculates, he did it all. Holds a patent on the Aluminum retention maze and getter


Abstract
Aluminum or aluminum foil is placed in communication with the interior of a cold cathode gas discharge display chamber to prevent undesirable quantities of mercury from entering the display chamber and to absorb undesirable O.sub.2 and H.sub.2 O which may evolve during the life of the display device.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Inventors: Paine, Jr.; Rigaud B. (Dallas, TX), Peshock, Jr.; Michael (Richardson, TX)
Assignee: Texas Instruments Incorporated (Dallas, TX)

Appl. No.: 05/459,819
Filed: April 10, 1974
When did your dad retire Rig? I hired in TI in '76 with the semiconductor division. I worked on the calculator and computer cases. I might have known him. I went to defense in '91.
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^^^^^^^^^ This.. see this on a daily basis.... common sense was not on the learning schedule.. for some of them
yeah y'all like it because you can send it down here.
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Old 06-13-2019, 01:35 PM   #35
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When did your dad retire Rig? I hired in TI in '76 with the semiconductor division. I worked on the calculator and computer cases. I might have known him. I went to defense in '91.

yeah y'all like it because you can send it down here.
I want to say he retired in 96. We worked at the main plant on 35 starting in 1963 then at the Sherman plant after that Lemon Ave then Lubbock and right before he retired back to 35. Do you remember a guy named Bill Bush we worked with my dad on and off on different projects. If you worked in the semiconductor division you knew him until we moved to Lubbock in 1979.

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Old 06-13-2019, 09:02 PM   #36
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OP was funny. Some of the other guys....
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Old 06-14-2019, 06:20 AM   #37
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I want to say he retired in 96. We worked at the main plant on 35 starting in 1963 then at the Sherman plant after that Lemon Ave then Lubbock and right before he retired back to 35. Do you remember a guy named Bill Bush we worked with my dad on and off on different projects. If you worked in the semiconductor division you knew him until we moved to Lubbock in 1979.
I probably hadn't met them yet if you moved in '79. From '76 till '81 I was on graveyard. I hadn't met many folks yet. All my time was spent at the main plant on 75 and then down here to Lemmon in '91. There is a chance I met them but didn't know their names.
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Old 06-14-2019, 06:53 AM   #38
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There's a big difference between educated and smart
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Old 06-14-2019, 07:55 AM   #39
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A new engineer has proven he can learn but next he needs to realize he has a lot to learn. Like most, I thought I knew everything when I got out of college. Fortunately, some designers taught me otherwise. With about 10 years of experience, engineers begin to actually earn their pay. If they've had some good experience.

The least likely engineer to work out is the one that graduated top of his class. He or she has no experience with humility.
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