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Old 05-11-2021, 07:00 PM   #51
Pineywoods
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Originally Posted by Johnny44 View Post
Why would God create a spiritual being who’s whole Eternity (thats like forever) is based on his/her short term on earth ?
Paul has something to say on this subject in Romans 9...

You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?” On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it? (Romans 9:19-20)

Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles. (Romans 9:21-24)


This is a very well written article that does a way better job breaking it down than I would. There are lots of opinions on this thread so I will just go to what scripture says...

https://www.monergism.com/vessels-prepared-destruction
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Old 05-11-2021, 07:07 PM   #52
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Good stuff and y’all make no mistake, I ain’t questioning God’s right. No Sir, no how !

I called myself making a deal with God ONCE, He came through for me. Then, in His Divine sense of Humor…He collected EXACTLY what I offered up !

Last edited by Johnny44; 05-11-2021 at 07:10 PM.
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Old 05-11-2021, 07:10 PM   #53
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I had this exact same conversation with my oldest years ago and the best way I could put it was this: (forgive me if someone else said this already I didn't read all the posts)

Your mom and I knew we wanted to share our life with a child. We knew full well that you would disobey, we knew there was a chance you might be nothing like what we envisioned and might even stray away. But, we wanted to share our life, love, and the hope of an eternal life with Christ.

Yes, God already knew, but He wants to share His glory and eternity with us. I saw in the posts before saying we try to put God in a box we understand and that is really well said. He created us and the universe, how in the world can we understand the fullness of God. We understand enough, His love , His sacrifice, and His grace.

I did read through some of the posts and all seem really thoughtful and spot on. Man I just want to get to Jesus and try not to overthink it.

John 3:16-17, 2 Cor. 12 9-14
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Old 05-11-2021, 07:42 PM   #54
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I agree but if he is Author of life he already knew what the so called “choice” would be?
He knows but we don't. Sometimes you choose right, sometimes you choose wrong (so do I). Whatever way you chose, God did not make the decision for you, doesn't seem real complicated to me.
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Old 05-11-2021, 07:54 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by 80transam View Post
I had this exact same conversation with my oldest years ago and the best way I could put it was this: (forgive me if someone else said this already I didn't read all the posts)

Your mom and I knew we wanted to share our life with a child. We knew full well that you would disobey, we knew there was a chance you might be nothing like what we envisioned and might even stray away. But, we wanted to share our life, love, and the hope of an eternal life with Christ.

Yes, God already knew, but He wants to share His glory and eternity with us. I saw in the posts before saying we try to put God in a box we understand and that is really well said. He created us and the universe, how in the world can we understand the fullness of God. We understand enough, His love , His sacrifice, and His grace.

I did read through some of the posts and all seem really thoughtful and spot on. Man I just want to get to Jesus and try not to overthink it.

John 3:16-17, 2 Cor. 12 9-14
Excellent post!
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Old 05-11-2021, 08:02 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny44 View Post
Why would God create a spiritual being who’s whole Eternity (thats like forever) is based on his/her short term on earth ?
I’ve read this over a few times and I wanted to comment earlier but wanted to make sure that I could answer the above question and
I can’t!!
I like what Pineywoods wrote about how Romans 9 breaks it down..
And the verse that comes to my mind is Isaiah 55:8-9
New King James Version
8 “For(A) My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” says the Lord.
9 “For(B) as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways,
And My thoughts than your thoughts.

But I know one thing is for sure that August the 5th of 2003 at 7:30 In The evening I got REBORN!
Heaven bound..
What drove me to that point?
My mentality handicapped Brother was murdered,I lost a 70k a year job a week later and after that tore a 20 year marriage apart..
And was killing my pain with drugs and alcohol
Three weeks before being Reborn I fought suicide ( any one want to call me a coward?)
All I could hear was pull the trigger you’ve done lost everything anyway!!
The devil is a Liar!!
I’m here today to say that God Created the oceans seas and mountains and everything in them and around them!!
Thank you Johnny44 for posting the thread..
I don’t have all the answers but I WORSHIP THE LIVING GOD WHO DOES!
Be blessed
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Old 05-11-2021, 08:12 PM   #57
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Ima bust out the catch all. “The Lord works in mysterious ways...”
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Old 05-11-2021, 08:25 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by DRT View Post
It's a good question.
I also wonder, Jeremiah 1:5
New International Version

5
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew[a] you,
before you were born I set you apart;
I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”

If as spiritual beings we were before we were humans, what were we doing? What part or piece did we play? If we were before, and we will be after, what really is the point of this trip we call the human experience?

And I've spoken with priests, pastors and well studied ministers. None have the answer. Or give the answer that when we get to heaven all will be revealed. So if we go to hell we'll stay is suspense?
For those who subscribe to the existence of Purgatory, some believe that our Earthly existence is our time spent there. A temporary state for the purpose of atoning(?) for one’s sins and to prepare oneself for heaven.

I certainly don’t claim to know, but this hypothesis appeals to my linear sense of logic.
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Old 05-11-2021, 08:30 PM   #59
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Off subject but I think the problem with theology is it tries to interpret God's Word with the mind to settle the conflict with our heart. Problem is our mind is already compromised by the world we live in so we try to rationalize between all that conflicting information to reconcile our heart. Thats backwards. To solve that issue Gods Word must enter through one's heart and then we can allow the mind to follow and reconcile the mind to the heart. Jesus is the Word. He was the Word come in the flesh. As a believer he now lives in my heart so The Word is eternally written there. Reading the Bible and knowing that what I'm reading is already written in my heart allows me to let my mind follow what it already knows. I no longer have any conflict or need to make it make sense. It just does because it's THE Truth and I can't reason or rationalize with THE Truth.


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Last edited by rolylane6; 05-11-2021 at 08:34 PM.
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Old 05-11-2021, 08:53 PM   #60
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But you do have the answer Brother Bill…Its in the last line.

Keep up the Love brother.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bro. Bill View Post
I’ve read this over a few times and I wanted to comment earlier but wanted to make sure that I could answer the above question and
I can’t!!
I like what Pineywoods wrote about how Romans 9 breaks it down..
And the verse that comes to my mind is Isaiah 55:8-9
New King James Version
8 “For(A) My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” says the Lord.
9 “For(B) as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways,
And My thoughts than your thoughts.

But I know one thing is for sure that August the 5th of 2003 at 7:30 In The evening I got REBORN!
Heaven bound..
What drove me to that point?
My mentality handicapped Brother was murdered,I lost a 70k a year job a week later and after that tore a 20 year marriage apart..
And was killing my pain with drugs and alcohol
Three weeks before being Reborn I fought suicide ( any one want to call me a coward?)
All I could hear was pull the trigger you’ve done lost everything anyway!!
The devil is a Liar!!
I’m here today to say that God Created the oceans seas and mountains and everything in them and around them!!
Thank you Johnny44 for posting the thread..
I don’t have all the answers but I WORSHIP THE LIVING GOD WHO DOES!
Be blessed
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Old 05-11-2021, 09:05 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Johnny44 View Post
But you do have the answer Brother Bill…Its in the last line.

Keep up the Love brother.
Ditto
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Old 05-11-2021, 09:10 PM   #62
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The question is basically, why did God create life to work the way it does? He could of done it a lot of different ways. I believe He did it to reveal himself to us. We can not know the extent of His love and grace without seeing Jesus die on the cross for us. If we are not able to choose sin we won’t understand His righteousness. If there is no fall we will not understand the need for a Savior. If we are not able to see salvation through Christ on the cross we would not understand the extent of His love and grace. It is hard to understand why God designed it all the way He did but ultimately He is revealing all of who He is to all of creation. All His love and grace as well as His justice and righteousness.

There are many good thoughts posted already, I appreciate reading them.
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Old 05-11-2021, 09:24 PM   #63
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When we are going through difficult things in life it is hard to hear that this life is about revealing God. When we see the extent of His goodness it will far out weigh trials, as hard as it is to see now. Salvation reveals God’s love and grace to all creation, not just us.

Last edited by 98ag; 05-11-2021 at 10:12 PM.
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Old 05-11-2021, 09:39 PM   #64
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I don't think this life is a test. Or purgatory.
For me it is a gift. Ain't always fun. But each day is a gift. And I appreciate each one as it comes because when they are over, it's over.
At least here anyway.

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Old 05-11-2021, 11:00 PM   #65
CaTx
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Why would God create a spiritual being who’s whole Eternity (thats like forever) is based on his/her short term on earth ?
Short answer…for His glory
“For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominions, or rulers, or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.” Col 1:16
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Old 05-12-2021, 06:32 AM   #66
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I agree but if he is Author of life he already knew what the so called “choice” would be?
I see it as, He knows the "choice" and He knows the outcome(s) of whatever we decide to do. The part that is on us is to choose the correct path
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Old 05-12-2021, 07:42 AM   #67
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Why would God...
"Why would God..." Is a life long pursuit that will not be answered in a post, 144 character tweet, video, forum, or in any of the greatest writings in history. Yet, we still post the question, and followers will "attempt" to answer the question. That is for the apologetics.
But it seems, all of humanity has always had an instinct for a god. Even the youngest children look up and wonder. Even Pilot asked Jesus the question. And Jesus remained silent.
That might just be the lesson itself, at least it seems to me, when I have the deepest questions of the ways of God, to remain silent. And see what happens.

I can say this. I had a question about the ways of God when I was 14. The answer did not come until I was in my 40's. But if we are eternal creatures, as you suggested, I have an eternity to learn.
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Old 05-12-2021, 01:28 PM   #68
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The question is basically, why did God create life to work the way it does? He could of done it a lot of different ways. I believe He did it to reveal himself to us. We can not know the extent of His love and grace without seeing Jesus die on the cross for us. If we are not able to choose sin we won’t understand His righteousness. If there is no fall we will not understand the need for a Savior. If we are not able to see salvation through Christ on the cross we would not understand the extent of His love and grace. It is hard to understand why God designed it all the way He did but ultimately He is revealing all of who He is to all of creation. All His love and grace as well as His justice and righteousness.
To elaborate on this a little more, many people would say the reason God is using the salvation of man to reveal His love, grace and justice to all creation, is to display His right to rule, to all creation.
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Old 05-12-2021, 01:42 PM   #69
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That would assume the ability to “know” anything is only possible when the human body is still alive.

My experience tells me we have an eternal awareness like ole boy did in 2 Corinthians 12:2

Just like at the blackjack table, I’m sticking with Brother Bills line.
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Old 05-12-2021, 06:12 PM   #70
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[QUOTE=Johnny44;15614112]That would assume the ability to “know” anything is only possible when the human body is still alive.

Not at all. God is continuing to reveal Himself. We will have all eternity to continue receiving revelation of an infinite loving God.

Experience will always help us to know something more, experiencing salvation will help us know God more. The angels seeing what He has done for undeserving man will also gain understanding of the extent of His love and grace. Would we be able comprehend The extent of His love and grace without Christ going to the cross to save us? He could have set up life a lot of deferent ways. I believe He did it this way because it is best, and it reveals parts of who He is that we would not be able to see any other way.
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Old 05-13-2021, 07:00 AM   #71
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If I’m already eternal with God why give me the chance to screw it up ?

Make no mistake, I am a knower not by “faith” anymore. I know whats on the other side and glad I’m going there as I got a taste as illustrated in 2 Corinthians 12:2


Johnny, I read 2 Corinthians 12:2. Are you saying you died and went to heaven? If so can you elaborate?


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Old 05-13-2021, 10:50 AM   #72
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If your born again you can’t screw it up. You can screw your life up but in the end your still saved. If you could lose your salvation we’d all be toast brother.
1000% wrong.
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Old 05-13-2021, 10:59 AM   #73
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Maybe not forced but certainly not logical.
Worship me or Ill burn you alive forever.....
If God knows the beginning and end, then before you were ever created he knew whether you would burn, or go to Heaven.
My fate was decided long long ago, before I was ever created.
Seems like a lot of suffering here on earth, and after, just so a select few He already knew about can hang out with him later.
Like DRT Ive put 100s of these questions to 100s of men of the cloth over my lifetime.
Put before them as a little kid countless times, because since I was born, I could never make peace with any of it in my head.
People talk about the sacrifice of giving your only son.
If I had the power, and knew my son would rise again, well you could kill him a 1000 times, and it would be no sweat off my back, in the scheme of eternity and a all powerful being.
But no answers of anykind...
Put em all in your "why" bag and ask God when you get there.
Or dont, because according to all Ive ever dealt with, when you get to heaven you wont care about those questions, anymore .
Such a bewildering topic.
https://fairviewparkchurch.com/artic...predestination
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Old 05-13-2021, 11:07 AM   #74
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https://fairviewparkchurch.com/artic...-me-to-baptize
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Old 05-13-2021, 11:28 AM   #75
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Why would God create a spiritual being who’s whole Eternity (thats like forever) is based on his/her short term on earth ?
You should check out Jonathan Edward's book, The End For Which God Created the World.
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Old 05-13-2021, 02:38 PM   #76
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You should check out Jonathan Edward's book, The End For Which God Created the World.
Edwards is a good one to read. Spurgeon is another of my favorites.
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Old 05-13-2021, 05:51 PM   #77
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Johnny, I read 2 Corinthians 12:2. Are you saying you died and went to heaven? If so can you elaborate?


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Not really gonna elaborate because I can’t put my experience into words but I sure get where he was coming from when he wrote it. It was enough for me to become a “knower” instead of “faith” alone.
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