Reply
Go Back   TexasBowhunter.com Community Discussion Forums > Topics > The Other Side of the Ranch (Firearms)
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-10-2020, 11:28 AM   #1
Wall_Hanger
Ten Point
 
Wall_Hanger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Huffman, TX
Hunt In: Victoria & Re„l county
Default .308 Sub/Super Combo

I am looking into putting together a "nicer" .308 bolt gun that will be shot suppressed. I am curious what twist rate would be best for shooting a combination of subs and supers. The goal is to have a gun that can shoot inside 100yds subsonic for doe patrol and pig work and then shoot supers for larger bucks, mulies, and perhaps elk. The focus will be on supers as far as accuracy is concerned since that will be the longer shots. I am new to the subsonic game so any help is greatly appreciated. I am not overly worried about weight so to the extent barrel length is a factor I am happy to go out to 20" or more if that is where the compromise is.

I am not married to the 308 caliber but being that I don't load I like the ability to get subs off the shelf. I may get into loading in the future but not right now.
Wall_Hanger is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 11-10-2020, 11:31 AM   #2
ABroussard
Ten Point
 
ABroussard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Beaumont, Texas
Hunt In: Texas
Default

1:10 will do it. Discreet ballistics recommends 1:10 for their subs also.
ABroussard is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 11-10-2020, 11:57 AM   #3
Wall_Hanger
Ten Point
 
Wall_Hanger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Huffman, TX
Hunt In: Victoria & Re„l county
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ABroussard View Post
1:10 will do it. Discreet ballistics recommends 1:10 for their subs also.
Thanks for the quick reply. Any comment/thought on length? Prefer 18" if doable but can go longer for better overall performance.
Wall_Hanger is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 11-10-2020, 12:24 PM   #4
ahlongslide
Eight Point
 
ahlongslide's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: NW of Houston
Hunt In: Anywhere I can.
Default

I would just go the same twist rate as 300blk and do a 1:8. But I like to use the heaviest projectile when going subsonic, my current ones are 240SMK
And I like short barrels with suppressors, so I'd do 16"- but 18" is a good compromise
1:10 will stabilize almost anything, but I don't risk it with a can on the end.
Overstabilization isn't as big of a problem as most attribute to it, Brian Litz wrote a great article on it (...if I can find it...).

Personally, I think you should have a short/light 300blk for subsonic 100yd killing and a different supersonic gun for long distance and elk, because, hey, two guns are better than one.

Good luck on the build!
ahlongslide is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 11-10-2020, 01:15 PM   #5
TX03RUBI
Ten Point
 
TX03RUBI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Lubbock
Hunt In: Hall County
Default

1-10 is going to be the best overall combination. It’ll handle up to 205-208 Gr subs well while still shooting the 168 class projectiles well. They usually handle the 150-155s ok as well.
TX03RUBI is online now   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 11-10-2020, 01:48 PM   #6
Mike D
Pope & Young
 
Mike D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: North Texas
Hunt In: Haskell County, TX
Default .308 Sub/Super Combo

Like Rubi said 1:10 will work but not ideal. For subs I want the heaviest projectile I can get. A 220 grain Bullet at subsonic velocity carries about the same energy as a 45 ACP +P round. I would want a 1:8 twist to be able to shoot 240+ grain bullets and know they will stabilize.

Since itís a sleeker bullet it carries the energy farther but is still is only about 500# at the muzzle.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Mike D is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 11-10-2020, 02:32 PM   #7
Wall_Hanger
Ten Point
 
Wall_Hanger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Huffman, TX
Hunt In: Victoria & Re„l county
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike D View Post
Like Rubi said 1:10 will work but not ideal. For subs I want the heaviest projectile I can get. A 220 grain Bullet at subsonic velocity carries about the same energy as a 45 ACP +P round. I would want a 1:8 twist to be able to shoot 240+ grain bullets and know they will stabilize.

Since itís a sleeker bullet it carries the energy farther but is still is only about 500# at the muzzle.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


So for supers the 1:10 will be good but it will likely be a bit lacking for subs? Iím actually ok with that since my primary focus shooting subs will be hog/doe patrol at pretty close range. I just want to make sure itís stable enough to not damage the can leaving the barrel.
Wall_Hanger is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 11-10-2020, 02:42 PM   #8
oneisnone
Ten Point
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: North Dallas
Default .308 Sub/Super Combo

My favorite gun I ever built and regrettably sold was a .308 bolt pistol with a 1/7 Shilen barrel cut to 11.5". I shot 220gr subs out to 400 yards accurately and shot 178gr supers out to 875 yards with no problems, both running an omega can (not in picture)

Last edited by oneisnone; 11-10-2020 at 02:45 PM.
oneisnone is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 11-10-2020, 04:49 PM   #9
kck
Ten Point
 
kck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: La Grange, TX
Hunt In: Fayette, Colorado and Maverick County
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wall_Hanger View Post
So for supers the 1:10 will be good but it will likely be a bit lacking for subs? I’m actually ok with that since my primary focus shooting subs will be hog/doe patrol at pretty close range. I just want to make sure it’s stable enough to not damage the can leaving the barrel.
Here's a 308 I built for myself with a 16.5" 1:10 Rock Creek. I killed around 160 does on the golf course here in La Grange with 175 Match Kings behind 10.1 grains of TrailBoss (all head shots from 50-60 yards) and, on paper at 60 yards, shot 1/2" groups. That round has enough pop at 60 yards to enter on the bridge of the nose and come out the back of the head with a VERY audible whiz. I shoot the same bullets (Bergers as well) behind 44 grains of Varget and they shoot quite well. Guess what I'm saying is that shooting the real heavies obviously carries more pop but that combo I mentioned will stone cold kill anything on head shots. However, I do NOT have experience with subs and shooting animals in the body cavity so the other fellas may be able to speak to that much better than I can.
Attached Images
 
kck is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 11-10-2020, 06:41 PM   #10
Mike D
Pope & Young
 
Mike D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: North Texas
Hunt In: Haskell County, TX
Default .308 Sub/Super Combo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wall_Hanger View Post
So for supers the 1:10 will be good but it will likely be a bit lacking for subs? Iím actually ok with that since my primary focus shooting subs will be hog/doe patrol at pretty close range. I just want to make sure itís stable enough to not damage the can leaving the barrel.


Yes you will be good on supers.

Iíd keep subs 220 grains or under. And test fire them without your can to make sure they are stabilizing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Mike D is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 11-10-2020, 07:41 PM   #11
Notaguide
Six Point
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Waco - Rockport
Hunt In: Evant
Default

Shooting a AAC R700 16.5" (1:10) suppressed. Not too interested in subsonic due to price compared to whats offered in 300BO. FMMG 168gr shoot really well but haven't had much pass thru on deer or pigs taken. No barn burner averaging 2474fps. but did well at 505yrds. My 10yr old loves shooting it with little recoil. He hammered a 200# boar Sunday morning in the front shoulder and lost him with zero blood after running 100yrds into S.TX brush. Pretty good video of it though.
Attached Images
  

Last edited by Notaguide; 11-10-2020 at 07:43 PM.
Notaguide is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 11-10-2020, 07:55 PM   #12
Take em
Ten Point
 
Take em's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Fort Worth
Hunt In: NE Texas
Default

1:10 twist should do well.

I have a scope with external turrets and dope the sub bullets based on distance and carry both rounds with me.

These three received 200gr expanding subs in the head and body at 50-60 yards. Just have to shoot them in the head or like you do with a bow as the bullets does not give the same energy dump with sub-sonic ammo.






Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Take em is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 11-10-2020, 08:06 PM   #13
Wall_Hanger
Ten Point
 
Wall_Hanger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Huffman, TX
Hunt In: Victoria & Re„l county
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Take em View Post
1:10 twist should do well.

I have a scope with external turrets and dope the sub bullets based on distance and carry both rounds with me.

These three received 200gr expanding subs in the head and body at 50-60 yards. Just have to shoot them in the head or like you do with a bow as the bullets does not give the same energy dump with sub-sonic ammo.






Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Thatís a good looking setup, what are your build details?

Hear ya on shooting them like you are bow hunting. Most of the subsonic work will be neck/head shots Iím sure but having the option to carry supers and subs, dope the scope and do both is about as much flexibility as you could ask for. If Iím going out for mulies or elk, Iím not too worried about bringing subs. If Iím sitting in a blind it would be nice to bring my 257 wby and a 308 loaded with subs.
Wall_Hanger is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 11-10-2020, 08:18 PM   #14
Take em
Ten Point
 
Take em's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Fort Worth
Hunt In: NE Texas
Default

Remington 700AAC 16.5Ē Barrel, Jard Trigger, Mark 5 scope. I load a super and follow it with subs so I can easily Change bullets out if needed but have full supers on the way to the blind so I can shoot deer if needed.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Take em is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 11-10-2020, 09:57 PM   #15
TX03RUBI
Ten Point
 
TX03RUBI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Lubbock
Hunt In: Hall County
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike D View Post
Yes you will be good on supers.

I’d keep subs 220 grains or under. And test fire them without your can to make sure they are stabilizing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
I never could get 220s to shoot from a 10 twist. Lots of keyholing. It’s been 8 years or so since I went down that rabbit hole, but I believe that the 208 amax was about the limit for the 10 twists I ran at subsonic velocities.
TX03RUBI is online now   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 11-11-2020, 03:04 PM   #16
Wall_Hanger
Ten Point
 
Wall_Hanger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Huffman, TX
Hunt In: Victoria & Re„l county
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Take em View Post
Remington 700AAC 16.5Ē Barrel, Jard Trigger, Mark 5 scope. I load a super and follow it with subs so I can easily Change bullets out if needed but have full supers on the way to the blind so I can shoot deer if needed.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Thanks. How do you like the Mark V? Worth the spend vs other glass? Believe it or not, I have never used Leupold.
Wall_Hanger is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 11-11-2020, 03:18 PM   #17
TexasRough1256
Ten Point
 
TexasRough1256's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Baytown
Hunt In: Centerville, SE TX
Default

Hereís my sub super combo.. Rem 700 aac, 20Ē barrel, running the dead air sandman.. gun shoots touching groups with the hornady sub x bullets, FC brass and I think 11 ish grains of trailboss.. currently itís sighted in with a 100 yard zero, hitting 1-1.5Ē high at 50.. It wearing a Trijicon on it now but before with my NF I had it set where I could shoot the supers with a dead zero and subs with the sub tensions. Havenít had time yet to mess with this scope to do that.
Attached Images
 
TexasRough1256 is online now   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 11-11-2020, 07:04 PM   #18
bmac
Ten Point
 
bmac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Weatherford
Hunt In: Robertson Co. & TPWD
Default

I have 1:11.25 twist and hard to get expanding ammo. 1:10 seems to be the right twist for ammo selection when going subsonic.
bmac is online now   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 11-11-2020, 09:02 PM   #19
Wall_Hanger
Ten Point
 
Wall_Hanger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Huffman, TX
Hunt In: Victoria & Re„l county
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasRough1256 View Post
Hereís my sub super combo.. Rem 700 aac, 20Ē barrel, running the dead air sandman.. gun shoots touching groups with the hornady sub x bullets, FC brass and I think 11 ish grains of trailboss.. currently itís sighted in with a 100 yard zero, hitting 1-1.5Ē high at 50.. It wearing a Trijicon on it now but before with my NF I had it set where I could shoot the supers with a dead zero and subs with the sub tensions. Havenít had time yet to mess with this scope to do that.


All of that is very helpful and gun looks great. I have never shot using subtensions but I need to learn. Is that a factory stock? Also, what detachable mag you using?
Wall_Hanger is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright 1999-2012, TexasBowhunter.com