Non successful booked hunt payment question

[MitchParker]

My take on it is...you owe nothing more than the agreed upon $500. However, if your "inner man" tells you to tip the guide, then do it. It's your money and if it will help you sleep better at night, then do it.

Cheers,
M

[lanceodom]

Did you ever voice your displeasure about lack of effort with the Dad when he came by in the evenings?? Hindsight is certainly easier and I get you probably didn’t want to make waves. Tough situation for sure. I just hope you have to pay because your son got a great deer!!

[Quackerbox]

Originally Posted by Lynn21

Hey trophy8- sorry I hurt your little feelings. Dont get your panties in a wad. Again, you added your crap to the list of crap on this forum. As always, somebody gives their opinion on something like I did, and here you come with the bashing. You Probly couldn’t guide a 10 year old, much less me for 5g.

Another insightful post.

Thanks

[lanceodom]

Now that you cleared that up, I would have a very nice but firm conversation with the guide and his dad and give zero tip.

[TxBowHntr]

I would argue the steak dinners and hot breakfasts constitute a tip in this specific situation, unless it was discussed that you would be providing all meals for the entire camp previously. As you mentioned, you would probably feel differently if they were busting their tail all day long, up early, in bed late, etc... But that is not the case. Chalk it up to a $500 weekend with your son and move on to better, more fruitful, pastures. Fingers crossed he gets his buck this AM and all of this talk is moot.

[RiverRat1]

Originally Posted by AntlerCollector

Thanks for clearing that up. Some places you pay in full regardless. At least you’re only out $500. Imo you owe nothing. They wasted your weekend if you don’t have a single opportunity at a deer you went there for.
If you feel the guide deserves something after today then pay what you think is right and move on.

I wouldn't go that far. He had an entire weekend of hunting (him and his son) that included lodging. Just a BnB anywhere would cost around $500 for a weekend.

Were you satisfied with the blind set ups, deer feeders, lodging, and uber rides to blinds? Were you happy with guide at the start and unhappy once you didn't see enough game?

You technically owe nothing. Tip is for great service. Unless they told you up front to please tip the guide that is.

I have no idea how hunting is there but all around here is slower than ever.

Whatever you decide just go with it and try to not worry. Doesn't hurt to try and talk to the guy. Only you really know the effort he put in (or didn't)



Add in an entire different debate Why should what he tips be different if they luck into a buck this morning? The guide worked "X" hard.

[trophy8]

Originally Posted by Lynn21

Hey trophy8- sorry I hurt your little feelings. Dont get your panties in a wad. Again, you added your crap to the list of crap on this forum. As always, somebody gives their opinion on something like I did, and here you come with the bashing. You Probly couldn’t guide a 10 year old, much less me for 5g.

You didn’t hurt my feeling. You spout off your grumpy old man BS as usual. Go yell at some clouds grandpa and STFU lol

[trophy8]

Originally Posted by deerslayer64d

I apologize if I wasn’t clear. My question was if I’m Morley obligated to pay him a tip above the $500 deposit already paid? As of this moment no opportunity has been presented at a 150 or better class deer therefore the $3750 kill fee does not apply. My gut tells me I owe nothing more but I am wired a bit different than most and just want to do what’s right

No. No trophy fee for no kill. If you feel the hunt wasn’t up to your expectations then you’ve already paid the agreed upon deposit and that’s that. Chalk it up to a lesson learned and head home. Remind your boy it’s hunting. And thank God you got to enjoy some time in the woods together. Hopefully they kill this morning. If not it’s still better than being at work!

[Barney1971]

Originally Posted by deerslayer64d

I agree with this but have always been told not to guide the guide, that being said here it is 6:12 am and the guy is still sleeping

i know what your saying deerslayer, there are NO requirements for anybody to call themselves a "guide" its the same in the fishing business, when you hire some one you have no idea if its their first trip or their 30th year doing it, -- unless you just straight up ask them or do some research. Apparently there are some folks on this forum that are guides, but really that doesnt mean S*** a good "guide" will be both savvy and work hard to make his/her clients happy., laziness is just unacceptable.

[CastAndBlast]

Originally Posted by deerslayer64d

I apologize if I wasn’t clear. My question was if I’m Morley obligated to pay him a tip above the $500 deposit already paid? As of this moment no opportunity has been presented at a 150 or better class deer therefore the $3750 kill fee does not apply. My gut tells me I owe nothing more but I am wired a bit different than most and just want to do what’s right

You cooking was the tip! I would not drop another dime for anything else with that type of experience.

[slayr]

I’ve never been on a guided deer hunt, but I’d expect the guide not be sleeping during the day unless I was. To me a 4-5 hour nap while your clients are waiting to go hunt is pretty unacceptable. Having the client wake you up in the morning is also not how these things should go either….if you were going to do a spot and stalk then I probably should’ve been communicated the night before.

Hope they’re on a big one this morning.

[Throwin Darts]

Guide slept in on the last morning of the hunt. When he woke up he'd be seeing my taillights heading out of the gate. F that.

[Hammerdown]

Originally Posted by Lynn21

Guide is way too young. Your food, you cook and clean, you’ve done plenty. Imo, I wouldn’t pay more than 50%.

At what age are you not considered "way too young" anymore?

[Mudslinger]

Contact Malone Outdoors. 1-254-722-9031. Central TX area

[rut-ro]

Hopefully they pull through and you get a good one. It does not appear to be a very pleasurable experience.

[tfrye]

If they come back from this mornings hunt unsuccessful, in a calm and respectful manner I would ask the guide what he thinks he earned (any amount over the $500 already paid). Hear what he has to say, then you counter back with why you think he hasn’t earned a single dollar then meet somewhere in the middle and pay him (if it’s not a crazy amount) so you go home feeling like you did the right thing and also told him what you thought/teach him a life lesson.



But I’m only 29, so I may be too young to have an opinion .

[BrianL]

I would tip 20% of the deposit or $100. If they kill something If they kill something this morning then 15% of total.

Part of the problem is you waiting till the last day to make VERY clear and almost demand your expectations.

" I don't mind feeding everyone and tipping, but I expect "x" this trip." I think the younger the guide the more that should be said upfront in a polite manner.

$500 deposit is a pretty dang cheap hunt these days, kill fee or not.

[Fajkus7]

Originally Posted by Lynn21

Disagree big time- I ain’t paying that kind of money for a 20 year old or a 24 year old that ain’t seen a tenth of the deer that I’ve seen or killed. That’s just me.

You’re that guy. The one every guide prays they don’t get stuck with. Just because you’ve seen a lot of deer doesn’t mean you’ve seen lots of deer on the place you booked a hunt on or have any idea what the goals for that place are. I guided from the time I was 16-20ish and I can promise you I would not be out worked or be the reason for failure in any of my hunts that I was responsible for. I was going to be putting in work weeks before you got there scouting and getting my ducks in a row so that when my hunters showed up I could make it as easy as possible and we could all have a successful hunt. Age has nothing to do with it. Lazy has everything to do with it.

[bbqfan5909]

Did guide communicate hunting times, methods each day, etc? My bags would have been packed and a phone call to landowner asking for deposit back.

[RR 314]

Originally Posted by trophy8

You didn’t hurt my feeling. You spout off your grumpy old man BS as usual. Go yell at some clouds grandpa and STFU lol

Haaaaaaa. Well done!

[tpack]

https://discussions.texasbowhunter.c...1&d=1669048795

[deerslayer64d]

Update- my faith in humanity has been restored, the hunt is over , they returned at 10:00 am unsuccessful, the guide apologized and offered my deposit back for not getting it done and I told him no need to apologize as it’s hunting and not a zoo , if it had been a meat hunt it would have been over the first hunt but we were looking for a certain class of deer and nothing less, I shook his hand and gave him $200.00 more dollars, to me this was for him offering my deposit back ! The hunt continues for a 150+ class deer for my son .

[jdg13]

Glad it worked out.

[Greenheadless]

Nice ending.

In addition to thanking and praising him for his offer at the end of the hunt and doing the right thing, I hope you did give him some sage advice on his actions prior to this moment. Explain to him the tip was not for his actions over the weekend, but his actions for doing the right thing in the end.

[RR 314]

Originally Posted by deerslayer64d

Update- my faith in humanity has been restored, the hunt is over , they returned at 10:00 am unsuccessful, the guide apologized and offered my deposit back for not getting it done and I told him no need to apologize as it’s hunting and not a zoo , if it had been a meat hunt it would have been over the first hunt but we were looking for a certain class of deer and nothing less, I shook his hand and gave him $200.00 more dollars, to me this was for him offering my deposit back ! The hunt continues for a 150+ class deer for my son .

Good attitude and good luck on the quest! I would have just told him to keep the $500, but your call obviously. Was hoping they would get it done.

[RiverRat1]

Originally Posted by deerslayer64d

Update- my faith in humanity has been restored, the hunt is over , they returned at 10:00 am unsuccessful, the guide apologized and offered my deposit back for not getting it done and I told him no need to apologize as it’s hunting and not a zoo , if it had been a meat hunt it would have been over the first hunt but we were looking for a certain class of deer and nothing less, I shook his hand and gave him $200.00 more dollars, to me this was for him offering my deposit back ! The hunt continues for a 150+ class deer for my son .

That's very rare to offer the deposit back. Wonder if he's on TBH?
I mean that's offering to work for free the entire weekend.

Meant to ask earlier - You started off hunting also(If I read right) Did you have a guide also?

[sling shot]

Glad it ended this way for you, sounds reasonable.

[HeyMikey]

The ending saved the trip, even though no deer was taken.
You probably bought yourself some good karma, going forward.

[Abu_dude]

Glad to here they did the right thing with your deposit. Hopefully, this doesn't discourage you from using a ranch just because of a "young guide". I guided for THE Schreiner family in Rocksprings for a few years back in my twenties. We put in hours of sit time prior to customers coming and still have 4-5 full notebooks of notes to prove it. I guided hunts from 14+ species of animals (2 of which are still top 5 in the world). Laziness knows no age and I would have put up any of the 3 guys I worked with against anyone for their abilities to provide service no matter if shots were fired or not.

Good Luck and hope you find a place to get him a wall hanger!

[UrbanBuck]

Between no deer and him being lazy , I wouldn't give him another dime! Your cooking and cleaning for yourselves and him??Who is guiding who?? Sounds like he should be paying you!

[rut-ro]

good deal

[Quackerbox]

That's a solid outcome

[Hawkpuppy 1]

You handled it better than I would have. No effort on their part, no deer even "available" in the size booked, sleeping in late, not hunting more during the day with the rut in full swing right now. I'd have left it at the $500 deposit and walked. No tip, no nothing.

[PassnItOn]

You better than me, sounds like they knew they didn't have any qualifying deer so were just there to collect the deposit. If a 150+ was out there, I'm sure he would have worked hard to get the rest of your money (or at least his dad would make him do so). Hate it happened, hope you find one soon.

[AgHntr10]

He must of been reading this thread this morning

[AntlerCollector]

Originally Posted by deerslayer64d

Update- my faith in humanity has been restored, the hunt is over , they returned at 10:00 am unsuccessful, the guide apologized and offered my deposit back for not getting it done and I told him no need to apologize as it’s hunting and not a zoo , if it had been a meat hunt it would have been over the first hunt but we were looking for a certain class of deer and nothing less, I shook his hand and gave him $200.00 more dollars, to me this was for him offering my deposit back ! The hunt continues for a 150+ class deer for my son .

I too would have told him to keep the $500 after he apologized. It sure I would have added $200 more, but absolutely fine if you feel he deserved it.

Someone must have tipped him off about this thread. You just don’t hear of deposits being returned.

Hopefully you can find a more legit place and go again.

[AntlerCollector]

Originally Posted by RiverRat1

I wouldn't go that far. He had an entire weekend of hunting (him and his son) that included lodging. Just a BnB anywhere would cost around $500 for a weekend.

Were you satisfied with the blind set ups, deer feeders, lodging, and uber rides to blinds? Were you happy with guide at the start and unhappy once you didn't see enough game?

Spoken like someone who sells hunts.

Have you been paying attention?

He didn’t book a weekend of relaxation at a B&B. He booked a hunt to kill a 150” class deer that apparently doesn’t exist on that place right now.

The lodging had dirty dishes and trash in it when they arrived. The OP had to clean it! The guide slept when he should have been working.

Even still I would have told him to keep the deposit for his time.

[TexasTrophyBowhunter]

Originally Posted by trophy8

You didn’t hurt my feeling. You spout off your grumpy old man BS as usual. Go yell at some clouds grandpa and STFU lol

Lol


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[TexasTrophyBowhunter]

Originally Posted by AgHntr10

He must of been reading this thread this morning

Who’s the guide??? we know you’re here!!


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[7sdad]

Glad it all worked out for you.

[Encinal]

Sounds Like I wouldn't hunt with that guide, or sell you a hunt.

[Dale Moser]

If I had to guess, I would say they are not terribly familiar with how outfitted hunts typically work. I imagine they over guessed at the caliber of deer they may be able to provide (or just aimed high for the old bait & switch), but are not really out to screw anyone over. I would further guess that the son has been put to this by dad, knows how low the odds are, and is content with some food and a couple hundred bucks, before the hunt ever starts. I think I would have handled it very similarly as how you did. Now you don't have to explain yourself to anyone.

There are some places with very nice deer in Erath county, but they aren't exactly growing 150s on trees.

[DUKFVR]

I would leave him a dollar in quarters on the kitchen table & leave.

[RiverRat1]

Originally Posted by AntlerCollector

Spoken like someone who sells hunts.

Have you been paying attention?

He didn’t book a weekend of relaxation at a B&B. He booked a hunt to kill a 150” class deer that apparently doesn’t exist on that place right now.

The lodging had dirty dishes and trash in it when they arrived. The OP had to clean it! The guide slept when he should have been working.

Even still I would have told him to keep the deposit for his time.

1st - You book a hunt to hunt, not kill, a certain animal. I'm assuming this was LF btw.
2nd - How in the world do you or the hunter have any clue what-so-ever if a 150" buck exists on that ranch? I mean wow... Just because one isn't seen in 2 days? serious?

I understand the place should have been clean and guide should have worked harder. That doesn't mean him or his son didn't get to hunt or sleep in a nice warm bed.

So you think when a guide is lazy that should equal a free hunt? What if a guide is 3x as lazy as this one was but you still luck into and kill what your after? Skip without paying, or now it's ok if he was lazy?

[Greenheadless]

[AntlerCollector]

Post 95 answered post 94 the best.






Paying a $500 deposit doesn’t equal a free hunt.

The OP was sent two pics of target bucks. Only two. One was already killed and the other the guide decided wasn’t old enough. Maybe another 150” buck existing. We don’t know and apparently neither do they. Lol.

You’re taking this personally for some reason.


Let it go.





.

[bassmatt72]

Originally Posted by deerslayer64d

I apologize if I wasn’t clear. My question was if I’m Morley obligated to pay him a tip above the $500 deposit already paid? As of this moment no opportunity has been presented at a 150 or better class deer therefore the $3750 kill fee does not apply. My gut tells me I owe nothing more but I am wired a bit different than most and just want to do what’s right

If the "guide" has been sleeping during legal hunting hours and you had to wake him up to me it doesn't sound like he has put enough effort in for any tip. The way I understand things are people have to earn tips which are above their normal pay.

[Greenheadless]

I am in the belief camp of posts 83 and 84, where they were overcommitted and knew it.

[bassmatt72]

Originally Posted by deerslayer64d

Update- my faith in humanity has been restored, the hunt is over , they returned at 10:00 am unsuccessful, the guide apologized and offered my deposit back for not getting it done and I told him no need to apologize as it’s hunting and not a zoo , if it had been a meat hunt it would have been over the first hunt but we were looking for a certain class of deer and nothing less, I shook his hand and gave him $200.00 more dollars, to me this was for him offering my deposit back ! The hunt continues for a 150+ class deer for my son .

Wow! Glad it worked out.

[dgilbert]

Good deal!