14 vs 16 seer

[wickll]

I would go for the higher seer since it is only a $540 difference. If it was a big difference, I would add insulation instead of a higher efficiency.

[parkchief100]

Not sure what brand you got but I know American standard and trane 20 seer units are not designed to save you money, they are solely designed for comfort. Have variable speed compressors that are designed to run almost continuously so you don’t have temp. swings. They run slower to maintain a temp. and as demand increases so does the compressor and fans. If it is one of these or like this, it is going to cost quite a bit more then a conventional unit to run. Op, not sure down there but up here were we don’t need as much a/c as you guys ,I would go 14 seer, just as said above, the more bells and whistles the shorter they last, just my opinion. But I do put them in every day.

Good info! It is contracted for a Lennox.

[Mike D]

What type of insulation will you have in the house?

We are foam encapsulated and went with 17 Seer. It was the highest Seer rating that could still use auto changeover thermostats and not have issues.

Like most things there is a point of diminishing return. I originally wanted a 20 Seer and my HVAC guy recommended the 17 Seer based on my wants/needs.


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[jdavidson]

Not sure what brand you got but I know American standard and trane 20 seer units are not designed to save you money, they are solely designed for comfort. Have variable speed compressors that are designed to run almost continuously so you don’t have temp. swings. They run slower to maintain a temp. and as demand increases so does the compressor and fans. If it is one of these or like this, it is going to cost quite a bit more then a conventional unit to run. Op, not sure down there but up here were we don’t need as much a/c as you guys ,I would go 14 seer, just as said above, the more bells and whistles the shorter they last, just my opinion. But I do put them in every day.

If I’m understanding this post correctly...two identical homes built side by side...one with a 14seer system,and the other with a 20seer system...the home with the 14seer system will use LESS energy then the home with the 20seer ?
And that is obviously considering the temperature set point is the same in each home.

[7sdad]

What type of insulation will you have in the house?

We are foam encapsulated and went with 17 Seer. It was the highest Seer rating that could still use auto changeover thermostats and not have issues.

Like most things there is a point of diminishing return. I originally wanted a 20 Seer and my HVAC guy recommended the 17 Seer based on my wants/needs.


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It will be spray foam walls and roof.

Is there any tax savings of one over the other as far as energy efficient?

[Mike D]

It will be spray foam encapsulated.



Is there any tax savings of one over the other as far as energy efficient?

I really don’t know as I didn’t even research. All I know is I only need 6.5 tons of air for 3900 sq/ft and it has no problem keeping my house at 68-70° even in the middle of summer.

My electric bill runs just over $200 with a pool and shop connected to it as well.

And this is on co-op power so I don’t have the luxury of being able to shop rates.


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[double bogey]

$500 for a 16 seer over a 14 is a no brainer. Will most likely pay out the difference in a couple years. Especially in a heat pump. Don't worry about more electronics. Your new system will come with a 10 yr part warranty.

[double bogey]

Not sure what brand you got but I know American standard and trane 20 seer units are not designed to save you money, they are solely designed for comfort. Have variable speed compressors that are designed to run almost continuously so you don’t have temp. swings. They run slower to maintain a temp. and as demand increases so does the compressor and fans. If it is one of these or like this, it is going to cost quite a bit more then a conventional unit to run. Op, not sure down there but up here were we don’t need as much a/c as you guys ,I would go 14 seer, just as said above, the more bells and whistles the shorter they last, just my opinion. But I do put them in every day.

This isn't true. A variable speed system is designed to run more and shut off less. They will deliver increased comfort levels.
When the compressor, outdoor and indoor fans all slow down, as the indoor temp approaches setpoint, they use way less power than at full speed. They will run 20+ seer throughout their operating range. I have been involved in dozens of system upgrades to variable speed and not a single customer has been dissatisfied with power savings and comfort level.

The downsides are, higher initial cost, and a more complicated control system requiring a better trained technician to insure they are setup and running at an optimal level of performance.

[critter69]

If I’m understanding this post correctly...two identical homes built side by side...one with a 14seer system,and the other with a 20seer system...the home with the 14seer system will use LESS energy then the home with the 20seer ?
And that is obviously considering the temperature set point is the same in each home.

Yes, that is what we were told in a class we had to take in order to install them. They are designed for comfort, and to maintain a constant temp. rather then cycle on and off (temp. swings).

[Mike D]

If I’m understanding this post correctly...two identical homes built side by side...one with a 14seer system,and the other with a 20seer system...the home with the 14seer system will use LESS energy then the home with the 20seer ?

And that is obviously considering the temperature set point is the same in each home.

That’s sounds backwards to me. The higher the seer the more efficient the system. That’s why they keep raising the minimum seer rating requirements on new homes.


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[critter69]

This isn't true. A variable speed system is designed to run more and shut off less. They will deliver increased comfort levels.
When the compressor, outdoor and indoor fans all slow down, as the indoor temp approaches setpoint, they use way less power than at full speed. They will run 20+ seer throughout their operating range. I have been involved in dozens of system upgrades to variable speed and not a single customer has been dissatisfied with power savings and comfort level.

The downsides are, higher initial cost, and a more complicated control system requiring a better trained technician to insure they are setup and running at an optimal level of performance.

We were told not to sale, on cost to run savings, but on a comfort basis. And yes they are more complicated. And after your warranty is over the parts are a lot more to replace, and many more parts to fail. Yes 10 years is a long time and if your happy with possibly replacing your unit every 10-12 years, they are great. I have a Lennox ( 10 seer) that is 32 years old and still cranking. I will not be replacing it with a 20 or higher seer when it dies. And as far as installing the 20 seers , they have charge assist and pretty much dial them selves in when charging them. Nice units for sure, but more then most people need. If you like perfectly controlled temp.s then by all means get one.

[critter69]

That’s sounds backwards to me. The higher the seer the more efficient the system. That’s why they keep raising the minimum seer rating requirements on new homes.


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Me too, I am just stating what we were told by the manufacture. ( instructor any way) maybe a different “ rep” will say differently. It’s not my money, buy what you want, and your comfortable with. Most people will not notice the price on there utility any ways.

[double bogey]

Look at any mfg's literature and they will stress comfort, and highesy efficiency for their 20+ seer products. Couldnt rate them 20 seer if they were not 20 seer.

I have been in the heavy equipment ac biz a large part of my 45 yrs in hvac. Large chillers with variable speed drives on their motors outperform single speed chillers from the bottom of their capacity until near the top, where a drive is slightly less efficient due to losses in the drive.
The commercial end of the business has been using variable drives on pumps and fans for 30+ years, believe me, it is because of part load efficiency power savings, and the ability to trim the speed to do the exact job you need done, not just making do with what you have.

It is my opinion, that in a few years you wont be able to buy a single speed air conditioner, due ti the higher efficiency.

[critter69]

Ok, what ever. Just relaying what we were told, when we took the class. No skin off my back. The thing is it’s really hard to see a savings in your utility bill, at least here. We have a few customers call us and claim there 14-16-20 seer are costing more then the 10 seers we removed. Which really should be impossible. And Unless there is a huge difference in your monthly statement, most don’t notice it. The prices I see quoted here are far below what they sell for here, and we usually only run them three- four months out of the year. I am sure down there they are run a lot more. But still the savings should still be noticeable, here.
I switched my 30 year old furnace out two summers ago, ( maybe 50% efficient) with a 92% furnace. The last two years my utility has been higher ( average) each month then the when we ran the 50%. Now I can’t claim that it is the furnace, because all of or electrical and gas are included in one monthly statement. And we did get a bigger screen tv. But at the same time got a gas range vs elec. ( or elec. costs far more then natural gas here) And I did not keep track of out door temps.for any of the time period. So like most, I just pay what the bill says I owe, and don’t worry about it.

[double bogey]

Here, due to tiered electrical plans, it is entirely possible to use less power and have the same bill.
Kook at KW consumption, and MCF (thousand cubic feet) consumption, and buy your power where it will work for you the best.
While we sell 90+% furnaces here, I don't see a lot of advantage due to our heating needs in N Texas.

Correct sizing has a lot to do with consumption also.


Buy as much efficiency as you can, we don't know how energy prices will go, except we know they will get higher.

My personal house: 3 tons not well insulated. Replaced 10 seer system with a single stg 16 seer system, and my highest kw usage is 25% lower than the previous 10 years.
This was the best system i could afford at the time, but leaps and bounds better than what i had. Another time, it would have been a 20seer variable.