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    Church ethics hypothetical...

    I am going to post a prompt here that we addressed in an ethics class in seminary. I know there are many here from both sides of the isle and I am curious to see the responses.

    Imagine you are the pastor (or a staff member) at Mount Zion Baptist Church. One morning during the invitation, a lady comes forward and says, “My name is Jean. I’ve been listening to what you have been preaching for several weeks. I want to trust Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior. I believe in the cross, the empty tomb, and his imminent return. But before you present me to the church, there’s something you should know: Ten years ago I had sex reassignment surgery. I used to be known as Gene, but now I am Jean. No one in the church knows about my sex-change.” What pastoral advice would you give to Jean/Gene? Would you present this person to the church for membership? Of course, your answer doesn’t have to be limited to what one would say during an invitation, but use this scenario as a springboard into the issue: What pastoral advice will you give?

    #2
    Just read an article how they tested over a thousand people that had or wanted a gender re-assignment, and 92% tested positive for a litany of mental problems.
    I would put my hand on my gun and back up.

    We have thought a lot about this recently. A semi distant relative is wanting to change.

    Remember the South Park episode where the school teacher decided he was a Dolphin. It did not go well at all....

    A little girl is not a Dolphin, Unicorn, or a Boy................

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      #3
      People with gender dysphoria need Jesus just like everybody else. Are you going to start screening potential members for other mental issues as well? Since when does a church turn away sick people?

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        #4
        it's only humans that have this problem....

        i'm glad I am not in your position if this happened to you.

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          #5
          Maybe some background...this is a ethics class that is dealing with how those in ministry will counsel some of the issues that the world faces today.

          No one is turning an individual away or passing judgement. Everyone in the church knows the depths of their own sin. The question revolved around any moral (from a biblical standpoint of the imagio dei) issues that may or may not need to be addressed.

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            #6
            Others sins are no more or less than mine. I believe that God will overcome and we as humans should not shun anyone asking to be bathed in the blood of the lamb and ask forgiveness of sins and accepting Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour. None of us are worthy of Gods grace.

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              #7
              I can see how as a pastor that would be a tough one.

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                #8
                I would ask Dr. Moore!

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by Jason View Post
                  I would ask Dr. Moore!
                  Cheater

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                    #10
                    The Verse that comes to my mind is when Jesus said something to the effect of: “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call on the righteous, but the sinners.”

                    If you want to get right by God, you don’t need any persons permission, acceptance, or blessing. If a church doesn’t want to support someone on their journey to Christ, that doesn’t coincide with the mission of the church. The church is to be Gods hands, feet, and mouth on this world. Period. Now that doesn’t mean that the church must condone this behavior. God’s grace is available to every person. I believe we should seek to live together in Christian community, welcoming, forgiving, and loving one another. Just as Christ loves and accepts us.

                    Does anyone think this individual isn’t suffering? If this Jean came and kneeled at Jesus’ feet, and asked to follow Jesus, would Jesus turn Jean away? I don’t believe so.

                    Jesus said “I have come into the world as light, so that whoever believes in me may not remain in darkness.”

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                      #11
                      Not to speak for DFA, but I don’t think the question is would salvation be available. Of course it would! Christ died for sinners of which I am the worst. The question is what would repentance look like? If this were an alcoholic, you’d expect them to seek help to overcome alcoholism. If this was a swindler, you’d expect them to begin honest business practices. If this were a chronic adulterer, you’d expect them to honor marriage.

                      How do you counsel this individual as to what repentance should look like? Can they still identify as whichever gender they so choose, or would you counsel them to honor God but mainting their birth gender.

                      Without repentance, there can be no salvation. Much of our repentance is very private and personal between just us and God. This situation (perhaps) demands a little more “public” repentance.

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                        #12
                        Originally posted by Jason View Post
                        Not to speak for DFA, but I don’t think the question is would salvation be available. Of course it would! Christ died for sinners of which I am the worst. The question is what would repentance look like? If this were an alcoholic, you’d expect them to seek help to overcome alcoholism. If this was a swindler, you’d expect them to begin honest business practices. If this were a chronic adulterer, you’d expect them to honor marriage.

                        How do you counsel this individual as to what repentance should look like? Can they still identify as whichever gender they so choose, or would you counsel them to honor God but mainting their birth gender.

                        Without repentance, there can be no salvation. Much of our repentance is very private and personal between just us and God. This situation (perhaps) demands a little more “public” repentance.
                        This was the line of thought. Compounding the issue would be, what if there had been surgeries such as breast and facial to go along with genital reassignment.

                        One guy was adamant about the person renouncing and living as a man. Curious what many of you think?

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                          #13
                          Originally posted by Death from Above View Post
                          This was the line of thought. Compounding the issue would be, what if there had been surgeries such as breast and facial to go along with genital reassignment.

                          One guy was adamant about the person renouncing and living as a man. Curious what many of you think?
                          I'm going to tread as lightly as I can here, if I come across as harsh it is not my intention.

                          So what if there have been surgeries? Are there any women in the congregation with breast enhancements? If so should they have them removed to be in Christs favor? Any men had hair implants, pluck them out? Tummy tuck, have that fat put back in? What about those that are overly obese that decide on a stomach staple instead of using will power to stay out of the pantry, shove them back into the buffet line?

                          I think, my opinion only, that the surface covering on the individual is less important than the soul that is seeking guidance and forgiveness. If Gene/Jean has decided that he/she need Jesus in his/her life then who are your congregation (as sinning, judging, mortals) to decide whether or not to allow him/her? Accept that person as who she perceives herself to be, welcome her into the fold and help guide her.

                          Richard

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                            #14
                            What the heck is a church invitation? You have to be invited to worship at a church?


                            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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                              #15
                              Do you make people with tattoos get them removed before they're allowed in??

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