Reply
Go Back   TexasBowhunter.com Community Discussion Forums > Topics > Current Events - Politics and Such
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-07-2019, 08:43 PM   #1
Death from Above
Pope & Young
 
Death from Above's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Henderson, Texas
Default Church ethics hypothetical...

I am going to post a prompt here that we addressed in an ethics class in seminary. I know there are many here from both sides of the isle and I am curious to see the responses.

Imagine you are the pastor (or a staff member) at Mount Zion Baptist Church. One morning during the invitation, a lady comes forward and says, “My name is Jean. I’ve been listening to what you have been preaching for several weeks. I want to trust Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior. I believe in the cross, the empty tomb, and his imminent return. But before you present me to the church, there’s something you should know: Ten years ago I had sex reassignment surgery. I used to be known as Gene, but now I am Jean. No one in the church knows about my sex-change.” What pastoral advice would you give to Jean/Gene? Would you present this person to the church for membership? Of course, your answer doesn’t have to be limited to what one would say during an invitation, but use this scenario as a springboard into the issue: What pastoral advice will you give?
Death from Above is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-07-2019, 08:52 PM   #2
Johnny Dangerr
Pope & Young
 
Johnny Dangerr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Houston
Hunt In: Mainly Guide Now
Default

Just read an article how they tested over a thousand people that had or wanted a gender re-assignment, and 92% tested positive for a litany of mental problems.
I would put my hand on my gun and back up.

We have thought a lot about this recently. A semi distant relative is wanting to change.

Remember the South Park episode where the school teacher decided he was a Dolphin. It did not go well at all....

A little girl is not a Dolphin, Unicorn, or a Boy................
Johnny Dangerr is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-07-2019, 09:03 PM   #3
jerp
Pope & Young
 
jerp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Aledo
Hunt In: Shackleford Co.
Default

People with gender dysphoria need Jesus just like everybody else. Are you going to start screening potential members for other mental issues as well? Since when does a church turn away sick people?
jerp is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-07-2019, 09:06 PM   #4
stickerpatch59
Pope & Young
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: gonzales tx
Hunt In: gonzales, and....
Default

it's only humans that have this problem....

i'm glad I am not in your position if this happened to you.
stickerpatch59 is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-07-2019, 09:10 PM   #5
Death from Above
Pope & Young
 
Death from Above's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Henderson, Texas
Default

Maybe some background...this is a ethics class that is dealing with how those in ministry will counsel some of the issues that the world faces today.

No one is turning an individual away or passing judgement. Everyone in the church knows the depths of their own sin. The question revolved around any moral (from a biblical standpoint of the imagio dei) issues that may or may not need to be addressed.
Death from Above is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-07-2019, 09:18 PM   #6
WTJim
Eight Point
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Default

Others sins are no more or less than mine. I believe that God will overcome and we as humans should not shun anyone asking to be bathed in the blood of the lamb and ask forgiveness of sins and accepting Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour. None of us are worthy of Gods grace.
WTJim is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-07-2019, 09:30 PM   #7
jerp
Pope & Young
 
jerp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Aledo
Hunt In: Shackleford Co.
Default

I can see how as a pastor that would be a tough one.
jerp is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-07-2019, 09:39 PM   #8
Jason
Eight Point
 
Jason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Katy, TX
Hunt In: Nacogdoches/Rusk County
Default

I would ask Dr. Moore!
Jason is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-07-2019, 09:41 PM   #9
Death from Above
Pope & Young
 
Death from Above's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Henderson, Texas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason View Post
I would ask Dr. Moore!
Cheater
Death from Above is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-07-2019, 11:12 PM   #10
Rubberdown
Eight Point
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Houston
Default

The Verse that comes to my mind is when Jesus said something to the effect of: “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call on the righteous, but the sinners.”

If you want to get right by God, you don’t need any persons permission, acceptance, or blessing. If a church doesn’t want to support someone on their journey to Christ, that doesn’t coincide with the mission of the church. The church is to be Gods hands, feet, and mouth on this world. Period. Now that doesn’t mean that the church must condone this behavior. God’s grace is available to every person. I believe we should seek to live together in Christian community, welcoming, forgiving, and loving one another. Just as Christ loves and accepts us.

Does anyone think this individual isn’t suffering? If this Jean came and kneeled at Jesus’ feet, and asked to follow Jesus, would Jesus turn Jean away? I don’t believe so.

Jesus said “I have come into the world as light, so that whoever believes in me may not remain in darkness.”
Rubberdown is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-08-2019, 12:00 AM   #11
Jason
Eight Point
 
Jason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Katy, TX
Hunt In: Nacogdoches/Rusk County
Default

Not to speak for DFA, but I don’t think the question is would salvation be available. Of course it would! Christ died for sinners of which I am the worst. The question is what would repentance look like? If this were an alcoholic, you’d expect them to seek help to overcome alcoholism. If this was a swindler, you’d expect them to begin honest business practices. If this were a chronic adulterer, you’d expect them to honor marriage.

How do you counsel this individual as to what repentance should look like? Can they still identify as whichever gender they so choose, or would you counsel them to honor God but mainting their birth gender.

Without repentance, there can be no salvation. Much of our repentance is very private and personal between just us and God. This situation (perhaps) demands a little more “public” repentance.
Jason is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-08-2019, 12:13 AM   #12
Death from Above
Pope & Young
 
Death from Above's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Henderson, Texas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason View Post
Not to speak for DFA, but I don’t think the question is would salvation be available. Of course it would! Christ died for sinners of which I am the worst. The question is what would repentance look like? If this were an alcoholic, you’d expect them to seek help to overcome alcoholism. If this was a swindler, you’d expect them to begin honest business practices. If this were a chronic adulterer, you’d expect them to honor marriage.

How do you counsel this individual as to what repentance should look like? Can they still identify as whichever gender they so choose, or would you counsel them to honor God but mainting their birth gender.

Without repentance, there can be no salvation. Much of our repentance is very private and personal between just us and God. This situation (perhaps) demands a little more “public” repentance.
This was the line of thought. Compounding the issue would be, what if there had been surgeries such as breast and facial to go along with genital reassignment.

One guy was adamant about the person renouncing and living as a man. Curious what many of you think?
Death from Above is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-08-2019, 12:32 AM   #13
Junkers88
Ten Point
 
Junkers88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: San Marcos
Hunt In: searching
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Death from Above View Post
This was the line of thought. Compounding the issue would be, what if there had been surgeries such as breast and facial to go along with genital reassignment.

One guy was adamant about the person renouncing and living as a man. Curious what many of you think?
I'm going to tread as lightly as I can here, if I come across as harsh it is not my intention.

So what if there have been surgeries? Are there any women in the congregation with breast enhancements? If so should they have them removed to be in Christs favor? Any men had hair implants, pluck them out? Tummy tuck, have that fat put back in? What about those that are overly obese that decide on a stomach staple instead of using will power to stay out of the pantry, shove them back into the buffet line?

I think, my opinion only, that the surface covering on the individual is less important than the soul that is seeking guidance and forgiveness. If Gene/Jean has decided that he/she need Jesus in his/her life then who are your congregation (as sinning, judging, mortals) to decide whether or not to allow him/her? Accept that person as who she perceives herself to be, welcome her into the fold and help guide her.

Richard
Junkers88 is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-08-2019, 12:42 AM   #14
175gr7.62
Ten Point
 
175gr7.62's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Hallsville, TX
Hunt In: Red River County,Harrison County, SW Kansas,
Default

What the heck is a church invitation? You have to be invited to worship at a church?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
175gr7.62 is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-08-2019, 01:54 AM   #15
steven
Eight Point
 
steven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Brachfield
Hunt In: Rusk Co
Default

Do you make people with tattoos get them removed before they're allowed in??
steven is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-08-2019, 07:41 AM   #16
JLivi1224
Ten Point
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Mid County
Hunt In: Public
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WTJim View Post
Others sins are no more or less than mine. I believe that God will overcome and we as humans should not shun anyone asking to be bathed in the blood of the lamb and ask forgiveness of sins and accepting Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour. None of us are worthy of Gods grace.
This right here.
JLivi1224 is online now   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-08-2019, 07:56 AM   #17
JLivi1224
Ten Point
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Mid County
Hunt In: Public
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason View Post
Not to speak for DFA, but I don’t think the question is would salvation be available. Of course it would! Christ died for sinners of which I am the worst. The question is what would repentance look like? If this were an alcoholic, you’d expect them to seek help to overcome alcoholism. If this was a swindler, you’d expect them to begin honest business practices. If this were a chronic adulterer, you’d expect them to honor marriage.

How do you counsel this individual as to what repentance should look like? Can they still identify as whichever gender they so choose, or would you counsel them to honor God but mainting their birth gender.

Without repentance, there can be no salvation. Much of our repentance is very private and personal between just us and God. This situation (perhaps) demands a little more “public” repentance.
How so would this transgression require public repentance? I believe that all repentance is a private and personal endeavor between sinner and God. We had a local church make an adulterer stand before the church and apologize for their sin. They then made the wife step down after her divorce because she was no longer married, which they require of staff. I thought it absolutely absurd and wrong.
JLivi1224 is online now   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-08-2019, 08:42 AM   #18
jer_james
Pope & Young
 
jer_james's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: North Dallas
Default

I would "accept" them or however you want to term it, and show compassion and love.

People expect change while insulting and chastising, when the facts show that is not an environment conducive to change.

You cannot control others, but you can control yourself. Be an example, and be a friend.
jer_james is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-08-2019, 09:36 AM   #19
xman59
Pope & Young
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Default

I would start by asking a question,,, what will you do and say if it becomes known?

and lets not forget, there are cases in the bible were it is stated that some should be put out of the church........
xman59 is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-08-2019, 09:55 AM   #20
RiverRat1
Pope & Young
 
RiverRat1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Leander
Hunt In: San Saba
Default

This gets deep and way to PC.

Seems like most here agree that sin is sin..all equal.

What if this person was a serial killer? Just accept them in?

And FTR I agree with post #2 that it's a mental disorder. I'm not saying they don't need Jesus or to be loved..But just don't act like they are normal because it's PC to do so.
RiverRat1 is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-08-2019, 10:24 AM   #21
jer_james
Pope & Young
 
jer_james's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: North Dallas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverRat1 View Post
This gets deep and way to PC.

Seems like most here agree that sin is sin..all equal.

What if this person was a serial killer? Just accept them in?

And FTR I agree with post #2 that it's a mental disorder. I'm not saying they don't need Jesus or to be loved..But just don't act like they are normal because it's PC to do so.
I think there is a difference between someone harming another person physically, and someone just doing what they want for themselves.

Stealing and Killing affect another person. What one person chooses to call themselves has no affect on me, or anyone else for that matter.
jer_james is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-08-2019, 10:57 AM   #22
Jason
Eight Point
 
Jason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Katy, TX
Hunt In: Nacogdoches/Rusk County
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLivi1224 View Post
How so would this transgression require public repentance? I believe that all repentance is a private and personal endeavor between sinner and God. We had a local church make an adulterer stand before the church and apologize for their sin. They then made the wife step down after her divorce because she was no longer married, which they require of staff. I thought it absolutely absurd and wrong.
I appreciate the question and see where your experience/knowledge of public confession & expulsion would impact your opinions on this matter.

I would actually argue that public confession may or may not be a sign of repentance. There are so many variables that it would be nearly impossible to make a blanket statement as to all public confession is or isn't a sign of repentance.

Also, forced expulsion can not be equated with repentance. While there might be repentance, forced anything is not the same as repentance.

Genuine repentance is required for salvation, public confession is not. The ethical question posed above is how would you advise this person on what that repentance looks like in their life? Because they physically transformed themselves to another gender and are participating a sinful lifestyle, how would you counsel on what their life needs to look like next? Can they stay in a homosexual lifestyle? Should they do all they can to go back to their birth gender? Depending on where they are in their transition, should they stop with the transition?
Jason is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-08-2019, 11:25 AM   #23
SBXT
Four Point
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerp View Post
People with gender dysphoria need Jesus just like everybody else. Are you going to start screening potential members for other mental issues as well? Since when does a church turn away sick people?


I see this judgement from too many churches. Churches are to heal sinners, are they not?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
SBXT is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-08-2019, 12:23 PM   #24
JLivi1224
Ten Point
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Mid County
Hunt In: Public
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverRat1 View Post
This gets deep and way to PC.

Seems like most here agree that sin is sin..all equal.

What if this person was a serial killer? Just accept them in?

And FTR I agree with post #2 that it's a mental disorder. I'm not saying they don't need Jesus or to be loved..But just don't act like they are normal because it's PC to do so.
Not normal at all. Gender dysphoria is a mental illness. There’s a reason suicide rates remain high even after “transitioning”. Point is we called to love even when it’s hard and even if we disagree with thoughts, actions, worldview etc...
JLivi1224 is online now   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-08-2019, 02:11 PM   #25
2B4Him
Ten Point
 
2B4Him's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Aledo
Hunt In: My dreams this year
Default

Regardless of your thoughts on 'gender reassignment', the 'act' has already been done. Like anything else that has happened in a person's past, it is done. So, you have right here and now to deal with. The church should embrace him/her and offer any and all counseling he/she is willing to accept.
It would be a different situation if it were an on-going thing like an adulterer seeking church membership (I am intentionally staying away from the homosexual argument - sin versus not). If a person is continuing in a sin (unrepentant), they should not be accepted into membership.
This raises the issue of identification of sins. It is easy to (perhaps) identify someone who is a glutton because they are overweight. However, is that 'sin' any worse than a greedy person whose sin is not physically manifested for all to see?
2B4Him is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-08-2019, 04:58 PM   #26
JonBoy
Ten Point
 
JonBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: San Antonio, TX
Hunt In: Mason, TX; Doss, TX
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Dangerr View Post
Just read an article how they tested over a thousand people that had or wanted a gender re-assignment, and 92% tested positive for a litany of mental problems.
I would put my hand on my gun and back up.

We have thought a lot about this recently. A semi distant relative is wanting to change.

Remember the South Park episode where the school teacher decided he was a Dolphin. It did not go well at all....

A little girl is not a Dolphin, Unicorn, or a Boy................
Not to hijack the thread, but can you PM or post a link to the article please? Sounds interesting.
JonBoy is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-08-2019, 04:59 PM   #27
duckmanep
Ten Point
 
duckmanep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Northeast TX
Default

Is Jean married to a man?
duckmanep is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-08-2019, 05:30 PM   #28
texansfan
Ten Point
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Littlefield
Hunt In: South Texas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverRat1 View Post
This gets deep and way to PC.

Seems like most here agree that sin is sin..all equal.

What if this person was a serial killer?
Just accept them in?

And FTR I agree with post #2 that it's a mental disorder. I'm not saying they don't need Jesus or to be loved..But just don't act like they are normal because it's PC to do so.
I like how you equated being gay as a crime.
Serial killer = criminal that needs to be turned in to Law enforcement.
Last I checked their were no penal codes for living that lifestyle
texansfan is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-08-2019, 05:31 PM   #29
texansfan
Ten Point
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Littlefield
Hunt In: South Texas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonBoy View Post
Not to hijack the thread, but can you PM or post a link to the article please? Sounds interesting.
It's on the front page of breitbart
texansfan is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-08-2019, 05:38 PM   #30
JLivi1224
Ten Point
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Mid County
Hunt In: Public
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by texansfan View Post
I like how you equated being gay as a crime.
Serial killer = criminal that needs to be turned in to Law enforcement.
Last I checked their were no penal codes for living that lifestyle
Penal code.... lol
JLivi1224 is online now   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-08-2019, 08:40 PM   #31
Playa
Pope & Young
 
Playa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Lubbock
Hunt In: Coleman
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkers88 View Post
I'm going to tread as lightly as I can here, if I come across as harsh it is not my intention.

So what if there have been surgeries? Are there any women in the congregation with breast enhancements? If so should they have them removed to be in Christs favor? Any men had hair implants, pluck them out? Tummy tuck, have that fat put back in? What about those that are overly obese that decide on a stomach staple instead of using will power to stay out of the pantry, shove them back into the buffet line?

I think, my opinion only, that the surface covering on the individual is less important than the soul that is seeking guidance and forgiveness. If Gene/Jean has decided that he/she need Jesus in his/her life then who are your congregation (as sinning, judging, mortals) to decide whether or not to allow him/her? Accept that person as who she perceives herself to be, welcome her into the fold and help guide her.

Richard
^^ this was exactly my 1st thought. And no I do not expect or require that person to go through another transition in order to meet some man created threshold of repentance.

Are we making divorced people who have remarried leave their spouse and go back and remarry the “bride of their youth?” No that’s ludicrous.

Sin occurs in the heart and may or may not involve the body. Therefore repentance occurs in the heart. I believe is what Christ meant in Matt 5:21-30
Playa is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-11-2019, 10:55 PM   #32
Death from Above
Pope & Young
 
Death from Above's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Henderson, Texas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Playa View Post
^^ this was exactly my 1st thought. And no I do not expect or require that person to go through another transition in order to meet some man created threshold of repentance.

Are we making divorced people who have remarried leave their spouse and go back and remarry the “bride of their youth?” No that’s ludicrous.

Sin occurs in the heart and may or may not involve the body. Therefore repentance occurs in the heart. I believe is what Christ meant in Matt 5:21-30
Ex-Transgender Woman Testimony (Transgender realizes he made a mistake) - YouTube
wonderful testimony...shared with the class. made the best arguement for how to handle a situation that could very destructive in a church
Death from Above is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-11-2019, 11:15 PM   #33
dustoffer
Pope & Young
 
dustoffer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Seguin, Tx
Hunt In: S/Central Tx
Default

We are to hate the sin and love the sinner---
dustoffer is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-12-2019, 11:07 AM   #34
Death from Above
Pope & Young
 
Death from Above's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Henderson, Texas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by texansfan View Post
I like how you equated being gay as a crime.
Serial killer = criminal that needs to be turned in to Law enforcement.
Last I checked their were no penal codes for living that lifestyle
It is against Gods law according to scripture. That was the whole jest of it...

A murder, liar, or person that practices sexual perversion will all stand guilty before the Judge.

Being pardoned was the context...how to counsel in a manner that reflected Christian love and accountability was what the prompt was attempting to dialogue.
Death from Above is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-12-2019, 12:26 PM   #35
texansfan
Ten Point
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Littlefield
Hunt In: South Texas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Death from Above View Post
It is against Gods law according to scripture. That was the whole jest of it...

A murder, liar, or person that practices sexual perversion will all stand guilty before the Judge.

Being pardoned was the context...how to counsel in a manner that reflected Christian love and accountability was what the prompt was attempting to dialogue.
I can't keep up.
Isn't eating meat (especially pork) a crime in the bible too?
texansfan is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-12-2019, 12:56 PM   #36
Death from Above
Pope & Young
 
Death from Above's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Henderson, Texas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by texansfan View Post
I can't keep up.
Isn't eating meat (especially pork) a crime in the bible too?
No it is not.
Death from Above is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-12-2019, 06:03 PM   #37
CEO
Ten Point
 
CEO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: The Woodlands, TX
Default

Are you looking to change this person's mind or accept them as they are?
CEO is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-12-2019, 06:29 PM   #38
Death from Above
Pope & Young
 
Death from Above's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Henderson, Texas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CEO View Post
Are you looking to change this person's mind or accept them as they are?
Neither...their encounter with Christ has changed them. They are now a new creation according to Scripture.

The church has a requirement to participate in disciplineship for those that come to the faith. What does that disciplineship look like in this setting was were the question was leading us. Any change is Gods responsibility and the church is full of redeemed sinners so acceptance is a forgone conclusion.

Last edited by Death from Above; 01-12-2019 at 06:32 PM.
Death from Above is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-12-2019, 07:27 PM   #39
SmTx
Pope & Young
 
SmTx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: San Marcos/Hempstead
Hunt In: Jim Wells
Default

Seems like something so silly to worry about while kids are dying of cancer.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
SmTx is online now   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-12-2019, 07:36 PM   #40
Death from Above
Pope & Young
 
Death from Above's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Henderson, Texas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmTx View Post
Seems like something so silly to worry about while kids are dying of cancer.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
Thank you for your participation.
Death from Above is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-12-2019, 08:23 PM   #41
hot_rod_eddie
Ten Point
 
hot_rod_eddie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: North Carolina
Hunt In: NC, SC
Default

I am disappointed in the lack of knowledge of the Bible from some of these replies. As a Christian we are to accept anyone that accepts Jesus and changes from sin. In this case that change from sin would be very public since the woman will be going back to a man. Transgender gay and other types of immorality are a sin against God. This person would recognize this sin and change back to a man and the church should help in any way they can. The Bible is very clear that the outcome of salvation is a very public thing. If you deny me before men I will deny you before my Father. A tree will be known by the fruit it bears. Lies do not become truth just because everyone believes them.
hot_rod_eddie is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-12-2019, 10:24 PM   #42
Playa
Pope & Young
 
Playa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Lubbock
Hunt In: Coleman
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hot_rod_eddie View Post
I am disappointed in the lack of knowledge of the Bible from some of these replies. As a Christian we are to accept anyone that accepts Jesus and changes from sin. In this case that change from sin would be very public since the woman will be going back to a man. Transgender gay and other types of immorality are a sin against God. This person would recognize this sin and change back to a man and the church should help in any way they can. The Bible is very clear that the outcome of salvation is a very public thing. If you deny me before men I will deny you before my Father. A tree will be known by the fruit it bears. Lies do not become truth just because everyone believes them.
It’s weird though that Philip didn’t tell the Ethiopian eunuch to go find his balls after his conversion. I mean with your line of thinking he should be made intact again so he can be fruitful and multiply
Playa is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-13-2019, 08:56 AM   #43
hot_rod_eddie
Ten Point
 
hot_rod_eddie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: North Carolina
Hunt In: NC, SC
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Playa View Post
It’s weird though that Philip didn’t tell the Ethiopian eunuch to go find his balls after his conversion. I mean with your line of thinking he should be made intact again so he can be fruitful and multiply
I didn't mean to imply that. The man should turn away from sin. I said change back, but we shouldn't expect him to be able to change what has happened.

Last edited by hot_rod_eddie; 01-13-2019 at 09:02 AM.
hot_rod_eddie is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-13-2019, 09:51 AM   #44
Death from Above
Pope & Young
 
Death from Above's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Henderson, Texas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hot_rod_eddie View Post
I didn't mean to imply that. The man should turn away from sin. I said change back, but we shouldn't expect him to be able to change what has happened.
I hear ya...society today does not recognize sin.

Most people that argue against particular sin is because they were not biblically discipled.

For this the church is culpable.
Death from Above is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-13-2019, 10:10 AM   #45
JLivi1224
Ten Point
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Mid County
Hunt In: Public
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hot_rod_eddie View Post
I am disappointed in the lack of knowledge of the Bible from some of these replies. As a Christian we are to accept anyone that accepts Jesus and changes from sin. In this case that change from sin would be very public since the woman will be going back to a man. Transgender gay and other types of immorality are a sin against God. This person would recognize this sin and change back to a man and the church should help in any way they can. The Bible is very clear that the outcome of salvation is a very public thing. If you deny me before men I will deny you before my Father. A tree will be known by the fruit it bears. Lies do not become truth just because everyone believes them.


Are not all sins a sin against God? Is sexual immortality in any nature a more egregious sin according to the Word ?
JLivi1224 is online now   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-13-2019, 10:18 AM   #46
Death from Above
Pope & Young
 
Death from Above's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Henderson, Texas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLivi1224 View Post



Are not all sins a sin against God? Is sexual immortality in any nature a more egregious sin according to the Word ?
The issue is continuing to live in a rebellious state of unrepentant sin after salvation.
Death from Above is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-13-2019, 11:26 AM   #47
hot_rod_eddie
Ten Point
 
hot_rod_eddie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: North Carolina
Hunt In: NC, SC
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLivi1224 View Post



Are not all sins a sin against God? Is sexual immortality in any nature a more egregious sin according to the Word ?
Yes. No. I still don't see anything I wrote that implies otherwise. We were directly discussing sexual morality sins. I didn't think it necessary to refer to all sins.
hot_rod_eddie is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-13-2019, 11:29 AM   #48
JLivi1224
Ten Point
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Mid County
Hunt In: Public
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hot_rod_eddie View Post
Yes. No. I still don't see anything I wrote that implies otherwise. We were directly discussing sexual morality sins. I didn't think it necessary to refer to all sins.
I was simply asking your opinion on the broader issue.
JLivi1224 is online now   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-13-2019, 11:32 AM   #49
mchildress
Ten Point
 
mchildress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Sealy,Tx
Hunt In: Polk
Default

The only problem I would have would be when he is in the restroom with my little girl.
mchildress is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-13-2019, 11:39 AM   #50
JLivi1224
Ten Point
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Mid County
Hunt In: Public
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Death from Above View Post
The issue is continuing to live in a rebellious state of unrepentant sin after salvation.
To be clear, I’m not looking for a debate. I’m looking for others thoughts on the matter.

To your comment, what then of divorce? How does one not live in this rebellious state. ?
JLivi1224 is online now   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright 1999-2012, TexasBowhunter.com