How is Ercot to blame?

[Smeone]

Ironically on Tuesday, Lubbock Power and Light announced it was considering leaving the SWPP (a contemporary to ERCOT that serves panhandle and a few other states) to join ERCOT.

It’s no secret LP&L is a tone deaf, shady money grab by the city of lubbock, but if this don’t underscore how ****ty of a company they are I don’t know what will. Literally in the spotlight of ERCOT failure they announce this, and will probably move forward because it’s better for their pocket book and they have no competition

Lubbock is moving over on June 1 of this year no matter what

a small portion will still get some SPP power and some West Texas Muny power because of some deals that Lubbock signed in for a portion of the total needs

Lubbock really had no alternative Excel told them they no longer wanted to serve the wholesale residential power market (they only wanted to serve large commercial wholesale) back in 2009

so Lubbock was faced with building or buying their own power generation (they looked at some plants in Odessa that were built and never put online), but transmission lines would have to be built as well and it would have left Lubbock on an island generating all their own power and only having their LP&L base to sell it too

somewhere along the way the deal drug on longer than it should have the transition was suppose to be in 2019, but there were bid rigging allegations and I think that drug it out

then somewhere along the way Excel seemed willing to sell power again and that is when the deal was signed so that now Lubbock will still have some areas with SPP power

in my opinion it will make no difference and will probably be better in the long run for a few reasons

1. battery storage is probably going to be one of the things that ERCOT says Texas needs and Reese Center is a good place to put a large amount of that along with their wind energy research and Texas Tech there now

2. the same issues that ERCOT has are coming to the SPP sooner than later.....multiple coal plants are going offline for them this year and next and they already had rolling blackouts this week in Nebraska, Minnesota, The Dakotas, and Missouri.....with the coal going offline over the next few years their rolling blackouts are going to come in the winter and summer most likely starting later this year or next

3. Excel is too unreliable as far as what markets they want to serve

[jaime1982]

Bold part is bass ackwards and won't happen for great reason

They simply need to set the renewables up correctly with the proper support mechanisms like they do in Wisconsin and all will be fine

Have you sent them your recommendations on how to simply fix everything?


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[Playa]

Lubbock is moving over on June 1 of this year no matter what

a small portion will still get some SPP power and some West Texas Muny power because of some deals that Lubbock signed in for a portion of the total needs

Lubbock really had no alternative Excel told them they no longer wanted to serve the wholesale residential power market (they only wanted to serve large commercial wholesale) back in 2009

so Lubbock was faced with building or buying their own power generation (they looked at some plants in Odessa that were built and never put online), but transmission lines would have to be built as well and it would have left Lubbock on an island generating all their own power and only having their LP&L base to sell it too

somewhere along the way the deal drug on longer than it should have the transition was suppose to be in 2019, but there were bid rigging allegations and I think that drug it out

then somewhere along the way Excel seemed willing to sell power again and that is when the deal was signed so that now Lubbock will still have some areas with SPP power

in my opinion it will make no difference and will probably be better in the long run for a few reasons

1. battery storage is probably going to be one of the things that ERCOT says Texas needs and Reese Center is a good place to put a large amount of that along with their wind energy research and Texas Tech there now

2. the same issues that ERCOT has are coming to the SPP sooner than later.....multiple coal plants are going offline for them this year and next and they already had rolling blackouts this week in Nebraska, Minnesota, The Dakotas, and Missouri.....with the coal going offline over the next few years their rolling blackouts are going to come in the winter and summer most likely starting later this year or next

3. Excel is too unreliable as far as what markets they want to serve

I have t been an LP&L customer for a decade or more, but it is a mess and holds lubbock hostage. We live outside of lubbock & have excel.

Like I said, and I think you agree, loss of power for short or long periods is not only going to happen, but become more frequent. If you can’t survive a period with our electricity, heat/ac or water, you better quit complaining and focus that energy on learning skills and accumulating your own resources

I’ll never live in an all electric house again, I won’t even have an electric stove again. Two lists going now. Supplies to get for current home. And second is features required for next home

[Briar Friar]

Knee jerk reaction Burnadell. You are right...ERCOT just manages the electrical supply...they dont make the supply of power. Blaming ERCOT s a non-starter that is a distraction at best.

First blame: The fault lies with us the Texan voting public consumer. I may become a single issue voter. Politicians should work to bring Texas nuclear or get voted out. Honestly Id like to see Texas subsidize nuclear to get it going NOW. Weve no problem placing nuclear reactors in submarines and aircraft carriers and floating them around in the oceans but GOD forbid we have any new nuclear plants to generate electricity.

Second blame: whoever the Texas version of Homeland Security Agency is and the actual Homeland Security Agency itself. Their think tanks shouldve conjured up this scenario. Texas has extreme weather events that happen at least once every ten years...between droughts, early freezes, late freezes, hurricanes, wildfires, etc. Proper prior planning prevents pizz poor performance. Prepare for the worst people...because it happens in Texas.

Get ready for a widespread drought...running out of water...and subsequently wide spread wildfires and structural destruction soon. We know it happens often. Regulation should be passed to limit superfluous irrigation of non-drought tolerant ornamental agriculture and the allowance of quasigovernmental entities...aka HOAs...to force, via leying fines, watering yards for fn green grass. Idiocy.

[Burnadell]

Louisiana and non ERCOT regions of Texas had similar issues with outages from the storm so you can't ignore the weather and blame ERCOT for everything in this instance.

I don't know about the other areas, but SWEPCO, who services us in the Longview area, is a member of the Southwest Power Pool, and we lost power one morning for about an hour and 45 minutes. We were lucky or blessed. The SPP grid is also the one that covers Lubbock and much of the panhandle...14 states total
.

https://www.wapa.gov/newsroom/NewsReleases/2015/PublishingImages/spp-integrated-system-map.jpg

[SabineHunter]

Knee jerk reaction Burnadell. You are right...ERCOT just manages the electrical supply...they dont make the supply of power. Blaming ERCOT s a non-starter that is a distraction at best.

First blame: The fault lies with us the Texan voting public consumer. I may become a single issue voter. Politicians should work to bring Texas nuclear or get voted out. Honestly Id like to see Texas subsidize nuclear to get it going NOW. Weve no problem placing nuclear reactors in submarines and aircraft carriers and floating them around in the oceans but GOD forbid we have any new nuclear plants to generate electricity.

Second blame: whoever the Texas version of Homeland Security Agency is and the actual Homeland Security Agency itself. Their think tanks shouldve conjured up this scenario. Texas has extreme weather events that happen at least once every ten years...between droughts, early freezes, late freezes, hurricanes, wildfires, etc. Proper prior planning prevents pizz poor performance. Prepare for the worst people...because it happens in Texas.

Get ready for a widespread drought...running out of water...and subsequently wide spread wildfires and structural destruction soon. We know it happens often. Regulation should be passed to limit superfluous irrigation of non-drought tolerant ornamental agriculture and the allowance of quasigovernmental entities...aka HOAs...to force, via leying fines, watering yards for fn green grass. Idiocy.

I like these ideas

[Smeone]

I have t been an LP&L customer for a decade or more, but it is a mess and holds lubbock hostage. We live outside of lubbock & have excel.

Like I said, and I think you agree, loss of power for short or long periods is not only going to happen, but become more frequent. If you can’t survive a period with our electricity, heat/ac or water, you better quit complaining and focus that energy on learning skills and accumulating your own resources

I’ll never live in an all electric house again, I won’t even have an electric stove again. Two lists going now. Supplies to get for current home. And second is features required for next home

I am not a major detractor of LP&L I am overall happy with the service and prices, but I think in the last 3 or 4 years they screwed up the transition to ERCOT by signing the deal with Xcel and West Texas Muny for a portion of their power

they are now saying that because of those two contracts and part of their service area not being able to have "electric choice" they are not going to allow it for anyone even those on the ERCOT portion

but Lubbock did at one time have electric choice Xcel was allowed to overbuild on the LP&L poles and offered electric choice, but shortly after they told Lubbock they no longer wanted to supply LP&L with wholesale residential power they sold those transmission lines and the customers off to LP&L

these articles talk about it

https://www.kcbd.com/story/11447019/lpl-buys-competition-xcel-energy/

https://knowledgeproblem.com/2009/11/04/breaking-news-retail-power-competition-to-end-in-lubbock-after-more-than-90-years/

one article says since 1917 both companies served Lubbock

the other says 90 years and then quotes a presser saying since 1942

but either way there was power choice in Lubbock, but Xcel wanted out along with wanting out of the wholesale retail market

as the one article states they mostly served businesses in Lubbock

I think there is a chance that outages occur on LP&L with ERCOT if Texas screws around and tries to "put heaters in turbines" or goes with "large batteries" and "more natural gas plants" and ignores coal

I have a fear this will happen


but at the sale time I know that the SPP areas are getting rid of more coal soon and they are going to struggle to get more natural gas up and going from both a gas capacity standpoint and from a power plant stand point so really the results are the same.....I also feel that the SPP areas will struggle more in the summer because of lack of capacity while Texas will not if they go with more natural gas plants because natural gas will not be freezing up and cooking and home heating will not be sucking up supplies

the SPP areas IMO will start struggling more most winters as well while Texas will just think things are OK with more natural gas power station generation until they learn they have the same issue only larger in 10 years or so

I think if someone really wanted the best prep they would have geohydronic heat/cooling either in the slab or in the AC system

they would have natural gas for some heat and for cooking and hot water (if available in their area) and then probably a propane tank for their residential back up whole home generator (if they are in an area that can place a tank)

make sure the generator can power the geohydronic and AC system and the tank has multi day capacity

have some solar with a battery peak system like the GENREC

https://www.generac.com/all-products/clean-energy/pwrcell

all the more so if your energy provider bills based on peak demand use and even more so if they give credits for renewables

and a fireplace that is designed to actually move some heat not just give it off from the fire opening

probably $25,000 or more so of extra stuff, but depending on the total cost of the house is another 10% that much more

[Smeone]

Get ready for a widespread drought...running out of water...and subsequently wide spread wildfires and structural destruction soon. We know it happens often. Regulation should be passed to limit superfluous irrigation of non-drought tolerant ornamental agriculture and the allowance of quasigovernmental entities...aka HOAs...to force, via leying fines, watering yards for fn green grass. Idiocy.

lets stop trying to regulate use while ignoring that use still goes up no matter what you regulate

how about we do what used to make the USA great and make more of something and find a way to make it cheap and abundant so we can use the hell out of it

"waste" is never great, but do you really want to live in zero lot line houses piled on top of each other with no yard for your kids to play in

even if you think the "city" will provide parks well they will not provide the cops to police to keep the junkies and the sex freaks out of them

and if you think your neighborhood will have a nice park and pool for the kids well they might.....until regulations regulate them out of existence because "rich people should not have pools and "private" parks while others struggle with high water bills"

more usage regulations while refusing to try and create more of something (and actually MAKE MORE not go get it from some currently underutilized finite source) is a great way to get everyone to live at the lowest levels of subsistence living

[Burnadell]

For those chiding me on saying this was a "once in a lifetime" winter storm, I may have embellished or been completely wrong (I was one time ), but...I am 74 years young, and we had record setting low temps here where I live. I believe the same is for other parts of the state such as Galveston County. Yes, we had severe winter storms periodically, but I don't believe we have had record setting low temps in so many areas of Texas at the same time. We also had record demand on the grid that we have not seen before with power plants in danger of shutting off completely.

I retired in 2017 from working about 20 years in an 800 MW combined cycle power plant. Prior to that I spent 24 years in a ChlorAlkali plant with the last 14 years in power generation, electrical distribution. I learned a few things along the way. Regardless of the fuel source, all power plants in Texas battle heat dissipation in the summer in order to achieve maximum generation. So, we build them pretty much wide open to the elements. Ok, when a severe freeze comes along, it is very difficult to ensure that every transmitter, impulse line, level, pressure, or flow indicator stays fully functional in subzero conditions. In colder climates, these same facilities are normally built inside of buildings that help insulate critical instrumentation and equipment against freezing. As far as I know, whether it is coal fired, natural gas fired, wood fired (yes, wood!), trash fired, or nuclear powered, they all require water for either making steam or heat exchange (cooling water). Y'all all know what is going to happen to those cooling towers, water pumps, valves, fans, etc. when it stays below freezing for long periods of time; they begin to fail. Is TOUGH to operate one of these plants reliably in Texas in subzero conditions for extended amounts of time. They just aren't built to do it. Even newer facilities with great heat tracing and insulation just don't get the maintenance required to keep them 100% functional in ALL conditions. Generally it only takes a few critical transmitters to fail and the whole plant comes off line. I have to believe that we have adequate generation capability during normal conditions but when the weather gets like this all bets are off. It will take a PARADIGM SHIFT in the design, implementation, and maintenance of these facilities to make them viable in every weather situation. I would really like to know the percentage of generators across the state failed to start or tripped off line due to being inadequately prepared for the weather conditions. It doesn't matter if ERCOT called on every generator in the state to come on line if only a handful could respond. As a side note, this is what is termed 'outage season' for most generators. They schedule their major outages (for equipment repair/rebuild) to coincide with cool weather because demand is usually lower and the economic impact to them due to lost revenue is less. There might have been a good number of units unavailable because they were scattered across the slab being rebuilt. At the end of the day I personally don't blame ERCOT. But, this is just my opinion.

I've tried to tell people this being in the industry. Facilities in Texas just aren't made for this kind of cold weather. I also put it back on folks. You're mad that companies didn't spend extra funds to insulate and prepare for cold weather yet your homes pipes aren't insulated and you don't own a generator. That ends the conversation quickly.

This is the reality from someone that has worked “behind the fence” where the work to generate electricity occurs. Oh yes there are politics involved in ERCOT but at the end of the day it could be one key instrument that the freeze protection wasn’t working and took the facility down. Thanks for taking the time to try and explain some of the key points behind the fence line.

Some good info in these posts above. Thanks for posting.

Jerp and Burnadell, I have been talking to friends about this as well, regarding all the broken pipes and peoples houses flooding. Do we really want the government making plumbers use 2" walled pipe insulation due to the freeze of 21. The cost will be pushed down to us on the end, as well as the cost of winterizing units. And would we expect their winterization to protect them to single digit numbers? I can see so many griping about the cost of that type of protection, when it rarely even drops below 32.

Exactly.

[overcomer401965]

Department of Energy is the problem just look at Biden EO on the Keystone pipeline.

[Maddox]

https://www.usasupreme.com/images-texans-froze-to-death-because-biden-admin-ordered-ercot-to-throttle-energy-output-by-forcing-it-to-comply-with-environmental-green-energy-standards/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Anyone seen this yet? Is this spin, truth, or a mix?

[dope hunter]

I guess my question is what is the difference between this last winter storm and the energy load during summers where there are triple digit temperatures across the state, and everyone, including businesses have their AC's and fans blasting day and night? I'm sure there is a good answer for this, but I havent seen anyone ask the question. I'm mainly just curious.

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[Pstraw]

I guess my question is what is the difference between this last winter storm and the energy load during summers where there are triple digit temperatures across the state, and everyone, including businesses have their AC's and fans blasting day and night? I'm sure there is a good answer for this, but I havent seen anyone ask the question. I'm mainly just curious.

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During the summers the electric providers have planned and done maintenance preparing for the high load expectation and usually squeeze every watt they can produce from every source they have. Right now a lot of the generation capability is shut down preparing for peak summer loads, not a very non-typical record winter storm.

[overcomer401965]

The DOE blocked Ercot from increasing the output . Its all part of the green energy crap they are shoving down our throats. Read the EO.

[overcomer401965]

Ercot was not allowed to increase gas generation of electricity because it would exceed the new green house gas emissions now allowed by your federal government. The request was put in to the DOE a week prior and the Biden admin said no.Ercot is not to blame.