Equipment Guidelines For Trad

[RickBarbee]

Bump for fresh input.

[TraditionalRJ]

It's been my experience that the ASA just don't give a rat's behind about trad shooters. I quit going to the huge Pro/Am held here because they treated us like we were ruining their big party by just being there. The reps all smile like snakes and lie saying they value the trad shooters, but we know better. I do have a question about your rule suggestions though. Why do you need to specify that a finger touches the arrow? Why does it matter where someone holds the string, so long as they are using a finger release?

Honestly I'm not sure when the last time you shot ASA was but I'm sorry you feel that you've been treated that way. I know it hasn't been that way for awhile. Mike and Tracy Smith are HUGE advocates for ASA and push hard to make sure the clubs hosting shoots take us into consideration. Todd Pool is a trad shooter and is the ASA west region rep. We are given plenty of input and asked for it constantly to better the traditional draw to the shoots. We have the option of shooting early and getting done before the big shoot or shooting with everyone at 10am. The pro-ams also have us shoot early this year and let us run our own pace long before the compounders show up. This past weekend at Abilene the compound shooters know the pace we move at and they always let us shoot through and accomodate us.

Whereever you had that experience at with ASA I apologize for them not apologizing and I would feel the same way you did about it if I got that feeling but I've been shooting ASA since I've been shooting. ASA is working hard with all of our traditional shooters that shoot now to make it better and better every year and draw more people. If you decide to come to another PM me and get in our group and I'll make sure you have as much fun as we always do.

As far as string or face walking..I don't care how you shoot trad as long as you shoot.

[bob sarrels]

Sounds like someone don't know how to cook duck.

[Van/TX]

Why do you need to specify that a finger touches the arrow? Why does it matter where someone holds the string, so long as they are using a finger release?

Stringwalking is not currently legal jmack. Maybe that's why Rick is proposing those rules to add an unlimited class that will make it legal and allow Traditional folks who shoot that style to compete in a Trad only shoot. So, it looks like he agrees with you...Van

[jmack]

I just read an article about string walking, and it seems like it's just another aiming method. It's not like they have different colored marks on their risers to aim with. I'm too far away to participate in any TBOT shoots, but if you're going to suggest that as a rule, then why don't you suggest that each aiming style has it's own divisions in each class. Only instinctive can shoot with other instinctive, gap aimers can only shoot with other gap aimers, barrel sighters can only shoot with other barrel sighters...
That's really getting nit picky isn't it? Will it be suggested that people who shoot 3 fingers under not be allowed to shoot with people that shoot split fingers? I shoot 3 fingers under for anything up to around 22-23 yards, and switch to 2 fingers under at distances around 25yds or greater, would that be considered a form of string walking? I'm not trying to argue, it just seems overly persnickety to me.

[Deb]

That would be an unimaginable nightmare for a number of reasons.

[jmack]

That would be an unimaginable nightmare for a number of reasons.

I completely agree, that's why I brought it up. Why do you have to alienate something as trivial as an aiming style? I mean an aiming style without obvious mechanical advantage such as pins, scopes, range/windage marks on the riser and or string. It may not even be an aiming style to some. I can completely see someone using two nock sets, and then pulling the string an inch under the lower nock set, all the while using instinctive or gap aiming.

[TradAg02]

Something I have been pondering:

Several have mentioned that all are welcome, though you may not be allowed to turn in your scorecard. I see the goodwill in this belief however I feel that it is a very slippery slope. It has been stated that a line has to be draw and I agree with that statement, even if I don’t particularly agree with where that line has been drawn. The statement implies that things should be further complicated as two lines need to be drawn. Not only will you need to determine who will be allowed to compete, but now it will have to be determined who will and will not be allowed to merely participate.

The recent debate infers that off the shelf/knuckle is traditional from a competitive standpoint, but that so long as you don’t have sights and/or cams you are traditional enough to “play for fun”.

[tom d]

.... so long as you don’t have sights and/or cams you are traditional enough to “play for fun”.

As far as I'm concerned, that's good enough to play for score.

I prefer off the shelf and wood arrows, myself.

I've never viewed someone else shooting off an elevated, adjustable rest as a detriment to my score.

[jmack]

I agree. I could care less about the rest (using a drop away is pushing it though), or what material their bow or arrows are made out of. So long as you're shooting stick and string with a finger release, then game on. Do we really even need divisions between longbow and recurve? I don't think there should be. They're both trad. I DON'T believe string stops, pins, cams, stabilizers, ect. is trad though. That junk I think takes AWAY from the whole trad aspect. If you shoot it, then that's you're deal, and I'm happy you love it. Same thing for wheelie bows. It's all archery, but that stuff just doesn't belong in traditional archery. If they want to shoot at a trad event, then they definately need their own class.
The same goes for a primitive class. A carbon limbed, foam core, cut past center, radiused shelf bow, using .0001 carbon arrows will have an obvious advantage over a snakey osage stave bow with rose shoot arrows. So if they want their own class then let them. They're trad though (and I dare anyone to even try to argue otherwise), so they should be allowed to shoot in any trad class they wish.

[RickBarbee]

I still have nothing to add to everything else I have said, except I would like to see folks offering suggestions for a rule set, or for modifying this rule set.

I do have a question.

How many TBoT folks would like to see a vote on the matter?

I'm talking about a voting format that has the best opportunity to reach as many TBoT members as possible, such as mail outs, and even on line internet voting booths.

Rick

[paulvrana]

Rick:

I shoot off the shelf and so don't really have a dog in this hunt but I am not sure why anyone would be opposed to a vote of the members. I do not get to make many shoots because of other obligations but I am a TBOT life member and I make as many shoots as I can. I hate to see guys like Chris Brown and Josh Isbell banned from competing because they shoot with a stick on rest. They are some of the best shooters around each having won Vanderpool at least once. I am pretty confident that Chris won when he was shooting off the shelf

I honestly respect everyone's opinion enough to consider their opinion on important TBOT issues. Why shouldnt the majority rule on this issue? If the majority says no rests, then that would be the rule. If the majority says they want to allow rests, then everyone would have an oppotunity to buy a $2.50 stick on rest or continue to shoot off the shelf. A vote would be easy to administer -- put a notice in the next newsletter and then just have everyone respond to a thread like this one with their vote.

[bm22]

I agree with paul.

[Van/TX]

I still have nothing to add to everything else I have said, except I would like to see folks offering suggestions for a rule set, or for modifying this rule set.

I do have a question.

How many TBoT folks would like to see a vote on the matter?

I'm talking about a voting format that has the best opportunity to reach as many TBoT members as possible, such as mail outs, and even on line internet voting booths.

Rick

Wonderful idea I'd like to see a vot...Van

[TraditionalRJ]

I completely agree, that's why I brought it up. Why do you have to alienate something as trivial as an aiming style? I mean an aiming style without obvious mechanical advantage such as pins, scopes, range/windage marks on the riser and or string. It may not even be an aiming style to some. I can completely see someone using two nock sets, and then pulling the string an inch under the lower nock set, all the while using instinctive or gap aiming.

The major nightmare deb pointed out would be enforcing this. Unless you know what you're looking for it's **** near impossible to catch though string walking is easier. If I was a face walker, you would never noticed what finger I anchored with from shot to shot unless you were watching EVERY shot and watching from the right side.