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Old 01-21-2020, 11:23 PM   #1
Wylde E
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Default SW Colorado OTC archery elk changes

Has anyone heard much about this change coming for SW Colorado units that were OTC becoming a limited draw?


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Old 01-22-2020, 04:33 PM   #2
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This will be good info to know for those who normally hunt these units OTC.


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Old 01-22-2020, 04:37 PM   #3
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Units? Link you seen this?
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Old 01-22-2020, 05:26 PM   #4
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I saw someone post (somewhere) that most of the southern units will be draw only for archery elk in 2020. Whoever it was actually posted a map of the affected units. I did a little searching on the Colorado Parks and Wildlife page but didn't find anything. However, if its true, it is certainly a game changer for me and my crew. We were planning on going back to the Pagosa Springs area this year for elk hunting (public land). Bummer if true.
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Old 01-22-2020, 05:28 PM   #5
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I haven't heard this. Always hear rumors but that is usually all they are. CO likes that $ and likely won't change that too much. I would like to see a few more limited draw units personally. Would make for some better hunting but you couldn't get a tag every year.
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Old 01-22-2020, 05:33 PM   #6
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Nothing would surprise me. I remember when they went from OTC to draw for mule deer. It had a HUGE negative impact on many small businesses in Colorado that depended on the hunting season revenue. About the same time, they outlawed running bears and mountain lions with dogs and baiting for bears. Consequently, the predator population exploded and the mule deer population plummeted. The hunting in that state has changed a lot in the last 40+ years and its not all been good.
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Old 01-22-2020, 05:38 PM   #7
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I copied this from another forum:


I am writing today to update all our members on the upcoming January 15-16 Parks and Wildlife Commission (PWC) meeting. It appears based on November commission discussion, BIG regulation changes to archery elk are possible. This is your chance to get involved to shape future bowhunter opportunity. We are asking you to review the CBA position, and send YOUR comments to the PWC.

In November the PWC was presented an issue paper to totally limit archery elk licensing in units 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 77, 78, 711, 741, 751, & 771. If you read the issue paper it also states the changes will apply to E-16, units 44, 45, 47, & 444. The CPW big game brochure shows archers are already limited in 4 flat top GMU’s, and 3 GMU’s around Steamboat, while rifle IS NOT LIMITED. Alternative 1 & 2 would result in limiting licenses for 23 GMU’s for ONLY archery hunters, while rifle hunting remains unlimited in the same 23 GMU’s.

At the conclusion of the November commission discussion, sportsperson representative commissioner Charles Garcia directed CPW staff to prepare language to pass Alternative 1 outlined in the issue paper for final vote in January. Alternative 1 would totally limit all archery elk licensing in these units to bull only limited licenses, and cow only limited licenses. Not only would we would lose unlimited OTC licensing, but it would remove either sex harvest capability for archery hunters. Commissioner Garcia also continually mentions limiting the Grand county units for archers, we suspect that will be next and this is not over. If you value OTC hunting, now is the time to speak up.

Our past member surveys have suggested 76% of our members do not support limiting archery elk licensing, while 24% do. Our past two surveys can be found here, and here. CPW’s own BGSS surveys suggest bowhunters place a higher priority on guaranteed OTC licensing compared to fewer hunters field.
While the elk herds in the SW are suffering from low calf/cow ratios, Issue paper alternative 3 will serve to improve and aid the elk herd while being fair to all hunters.
Our objective is (1) to keep you informed, and (2) ask you to comment directly to the Parks and Wildlife commission. Please take a look at our written input to the commission here. We would ask our members to email YOUR PERSONAL INPUT directly to the commissioners and CPW at their addresses below:
michelle.zimmerman@state.co.us
marvin.mcdaniel@state.co.us
jim.vigil@state.co.us
betsy.blecha@state.co.us
carrie.hauser@state.co.us
charles.garcia@state.co.us
Eden.Vardy@state.co.us
Luke.Schafer@state.co.us
marie.haskett@state.co.us
robert.bray@state.co.us
Taishya.Adams@state.co.us
dnr_cpwcommission@state.co.us
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Old 01-22-2020, 06:10 PM   #8
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I thought they already voted on their 5 year plan and this wasn’t part of it . I hope it isn’t true unit I hunt is on that list . Almost like it’s targeting Texas hunters coming up lol .
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Old 01-22-2020, 06:16 PM   #9
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No rumors it passed last week. Yes all SW units are a draw for archery now and most tags are bull only no longer either sex.
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Old 01-22-2020, 06:19 PM   #10
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No rumors it passed last week. Yes all SW units are a draw for archery now and most tags are bull only no longer either sex.
Where can we read about this. ?
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Old 01-22-2020, 06:21 PM   #11
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In 7 years of NR Elk hunting I have paid the equivalent of 90 + Resident elk hunters in license fees. So multiply that by all the Non Resident hunters that come to Colorado. CO DOW will stand to lose a bunch of dollars if they make those changes. I believe I read that only about 10% of Colorado Residents purchase Hunting Licenses. That does not take into consideration the positive economic value hunters bring to the small towns throughout Colorado.
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Old 01-22-2020, 06:22 PM   #12
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I might be wrong--I HAVE been wrong before---but, I believe this will have a large economic impact on Colorado. I'm not against it if herd numbers are declining. I hate it because I really love Colorado in the fall. Looks like I'll be spending my time and money elsewhere. It was fun while it lasted!
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Old 01-22-2020, 06:24 PM   #13
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Ah hell, have 17 pts this suxs!!!

No way I’m wasting those points in an past otc unit. With demand it won’t be like most the Southern Mulie draws with 1 or less point draws. So even second and third choice is out

Going to a huge tag turn back going on. Southern CO is Utah, NM, TX, AZ back up plan, so now they will apply as back up
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Old 01-22-2020, 06:39 PM   #14
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Where can we read about this. ?
You can pull up on their meeting minutes on the CPW website
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Old 01-22-2020, 07:49 PM   #15
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Yeah this throws a serious wrench in game plans for hunting elk I. Colorado this year! It may be an easy draw but a draw non the less. It may be implemented to ensure everyone is having to buy the small game license also to put in for the draw... just a thought to ensure another 100$ from everyone.


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Old 01-22-2020, 08:18 PM   #16
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It was implemented due to dropping herd numbers and low calf recruitment. Also you can't keep having an unlimited number of people chasing a limited resource eventually something has to change
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Old 01-22-2020, 08:26 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ORIONTHEHUNTER View Post
It was implemented due to dropping herd numbers and low calf recruitment. Also you can't keep having an unlimited number of people chasing a limited resource eventually something has to change


I totally agree! I am just hoping that herd Management is the driving factor. Also for us that are starting with zero points this year it should be a pretty easy draw. I am curious to see if they will have either sex tags for archery in these units.


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Old 01-22-2020, 08:34 PM   #18
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Is that gonna effect private land as far as having to draw for a tag?
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Old 01-22-2020, 09:08 PM   #19
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I don't mind the change, but what I find odd is the fact that rifle remains unlimited in teh 23 GMUs.
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Old 01-22-2020, 09:09 PM   #20
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Quote:
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Is that gonna effect private land as far as having to draw for a tag?
What is your question here?
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Old 01-22-2020, 09:10 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by ORIONTHEHUNTER View Post
It was implemented due to dropping herd numbers and low calf recruitment. Also you can't keep having an unlimited number of people chasing a limited resource eventually something has to change
So they change the otc bow hunts to draw only and do nothing to the gun hunts? Why would they do this? I
I don’t understand this if they are trying to lower the harvest numbers. Isn’t archery success around 9% statewide on archery and around 22% gun success statewide. I would assume a lot more gun hunters than bow hunters also, so I don’t really see why the gun hunts didn’t change too.
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Old 01-22-2020, 09:15 PM   #22
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What is your question here?
If. You're hunting private land, will you still have to draw?
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Old 01-22-2020, 09:15 PM   #23
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read all about it...https://forums.bowsite.com/tf/bgforu...orum=5#4887520
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Old 01-22-2020, 09:17 PM   #24
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The study I read was there was too many people pressuring the elk during the rut and it was occurring later in the season.. which caused the calves to be born too late and not survive the following season. This is all about calf mortality to increase the herd.
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Old 01-22-2020, 09:18 PM   #25
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So they change the otc bow hunts to draw only and do nothing to the gun hunts? Why would they do this? I
I don’t understand this if they are trying to lower the harvest numbers. Isn’t archery success around 9% statewide on archery and around 22% gun success statewide. I would assume a lot more gun hunters than bow hunters also, so I don’t really see why the gun hunts didn’t change too.
That's common sense, but there is no common sense in government!
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Old 01-22-2020, 09:20 PM   #26
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Quote:
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Is that gonna effect private land as far as having to draw for a tag?
Yes, but most large LO’ers already put in for LO tags for the more coveted 1st and 4th rifles seasons, so they will just do the same for archery
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Old 01-22-2020, 09:27 PM   #27
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The study I read was there was too many people pressuring the elk during the rut and it was occurring later in the season.. which caused the calves to be born too late and not survive the following season. This is all about calf mortality to increase the herd.
Sure calf mortality has nothing to do with the 30 year Record High Blk bear recruitment
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Old 01-22-2020, 09:34 PM   #28
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Sure calf mortality has nothing to do with the 30 year Record High Blk bear recruitment
Any changes on black bear?
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Old 01-22-2020, 09:40 PM   #29
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Any changes on black bear?
Last year they dropped tag fees to I think $100, to In courage more participation, but with out a spring season or early season it’s not real effective.

Think of it this way, say you are hunting pagosa and are 4 miles back hunting elk, see a bear and shot it. Now you have to pack it out, then spend a day taking it to Durango to get it sealed.

On top of that by third season they are pretty much denned
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Old 01-22-2020, 09:44 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Texans42 View Post
Last year they dropped tag fees to I think $100, to In courage more participation, but with out a spring season or early season it’s not real effective.

Think of it this way, say you are hunting pagosa and are 4 miles back hunting elk, see a bear and shot it. Now you have to pack it out, then spend a day taking it to Durango to get it sealed.

On top of that by third season they are pretty much denned
Spring bear for a $100 would be cool as hail!
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Old 01-22-2020, 09:46 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by tx_basser View Post
The study I read was there was too many people pressuring the elk during the rut and it was occurring later in the season.. which caused the calves to be born too late and not survive the following season. This is all about calf mortality to increase the herd.
Maybe elk breed different than whitetail but i don’t think you could pressure deer anymore during the rut and they still breed at night. I have heard quite a few bull elk bugle at night in sw Colorado so I know they breed at night also. I can see the heavy snow affecting winter survival but do we really think hunting pressure in some of the roughest country in North America changes free range elk breeding habits! That is hard for me to swallow. I would bet someone one on Colorado board doesn’t like bow hunting!

Last edited by Killer; 01-22-2020 at 09:49 PM.
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Old 01-22-2020, 10:00 PM   #32
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This ruined my day
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Old 01-22-2020, 10:12 PM   #33
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the worst part of the deal is loss of the either sex archery tag. So you will be forced to apply by draw for cow only or bull only. Grrrrrrrrr!

I also wonder how many hunters will now forgo the archery hunt and just buy an OTC tag for 2 or 3 rifle hunt. Those hunts potentially might get real crowded.
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Old 01-22-2020, 10:15 PM   #34
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Texas needs to help free up hunting land for Texas residents. Maybe implement a limited draw for non-resident hunters.
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Old 01-22-2020, 10:21 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killer View Post
So they change the otc bow hunts to draw only and do nothing to the gun hunts? Why would they do this? I
I don’t understand this if they are trying to lower the harvest numbers. Isn’t archery success around 9% statewide on archery and around 22% gun success statewide. I would assume a lot more gun hunters than bow hunters also, so I don’t really see why the gun hunts didn’t change too.
Passed in the newest 5 year plan. 2nd and 3rd season are pushed back a week later. And 3rd season is shortened 7 day season. Most of the tags are bull only.

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Old 01-23-2020, 09:21 AM   #36
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Now my plans change. Looks like I will burn points in a different part of the state.
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Old 01-23-2020, 09:31 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traildust View Post
Texas needs to help free up hunting land for Texas residents. Maybe implement a limited draw for non-resident hunters.
Is there actually any demand for Texas public land hunting from out of state other than bighorn?
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Old 01-23-2020, 09:47 AM   #38
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Some of you guys don't understand the west! Colorado has turned into combat hunting, and this is long overdue.

I'm sure the state will be 100% draw or at the least all caps in the next few years.

We have a terrible time managing predators out here. Bears alone are a big part of it, then factor in developments affecting migration routes or wintering grounds and its simply not sustainable to OTC hunting.

Then factor in the nonstop pressure from nonhunters (bikers, climbers, backpackers) which adds stress to calving areas in the spring.
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Old 01-23-2020, 10:10 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texans42 View Post
Sure calf mortality has nothing to do with the 30 year Record High Blk bear recruitment
Exactly. Not to mention Colorado will likely have forced wolf reintroduction on the ballot this fall.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Traildust View Post
Spring bear for a $100 would be cool as hail!
Tree huggers banned spring bear hunting. As well as hunting with dogs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killer View Post
So they change the otc bow hunts to draw only and do nothing to the gun hunts? Why would they do this? I
I don’t understand this if they are trying to lower the harvest numbers. Isn’t archery success around 9% statewide on archery and around 22% gun success statewide. I would assume a lot more gun hunters than bow hunters also, so I don’t really see why the gun hunts didn’t change too.
Because gun hunts are where the state makes its money, and elk are hardest to shoot. More people hunt with rifle than bow. Last fall, we hunted bow. Never saw another party in the mountains, and saw plenty of elk. The first year, we hunted rifle. We saw people every day, shooting like it was opening day in Wisconsin. Also, those success numbers can't be right, 22% is way too high. Idaho has one of the highest success rates, and last year I think was 19%.
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Old 01-23-2020, 10:25 AM   #40
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I’ve now hunted in one of the units listed 2 years in a row and never saw anyone until we went back to the truck .
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Old 01-23-2020, 10:31 AM   #41
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Is there actually any demand for Texas public land hunting from out of state other than bighorn?
I'm talking about Public and Private. Tons of Texas residents looking for hunting land. Residents should have priority over non-residents.
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Old 01-23-2020, 10:37 AM   #42
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If they are worried about numbers why does this only effect Archery season and not Gun season? Gun hunters kill way more that Archery hunters.
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Old 01-23-2020, 10:38 AM   #43
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I'm sure Elk Calf mortality in these units has NOTHING to do with the release of all the nuisance bears from populated areas such as Durango

They open up increased Bear Tags with CAPS in these areas at reduced rates, yet don't encourage additional population control of predators like Coyotes and Mt. Lions. CO has a great resource, but its run by Left-Wing idiots who mandate based on Disney Movies.
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Old 01-23-2020, 10:40 AM   #44
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There was a big thread on this on Rokslide and Hunttalk. Also the upcoming changes to gun season dates and how it was shortened.

I've hunted units there were completely over run with people and two other times there were very few if any other hunters. I enjoy elk hunting and was hoping to do bow this year due to crazies during gun season, but that may change now.
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Old 01-23-2020, 10:48 AM   #45
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https://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/Hu...ember_2019.pdf

Clearly anti-bowhunting! I read thru several pages of meeting minutes....limiting non-residents was high on the priority list.
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Old 01-23-2020, 10:50 AM   #46
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It should be we give way more tags and cheaper ones then almost every other western state. If you want to complain about being limited look at New Mexico's non resident allocations
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Old 01-23-2020, 10:59 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traildust View Post
https://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/Hu...ember_2019.pdf

Clearly anti-bowhunting! I read thru several pages of meeting minutes....limiting non-residents was high on the priority list.
Where did you get anti bowhunting?
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Old 01-23-2020, 11:01 AM   #48
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Where did you get anti bowhunting?
Meeting minutes.....
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Old 01-23-2020, 12:08 PM   #49
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I'll have to go over them again. I know there were some units that had bad winter kills, or general loss of populations. I didn't recall anything relating to archery, other than actually tracking it and start regulating this state.
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Old 01-23-2020, 01:12 PM   #50
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Looks like the writing is on the wall to me, NR are coming to have to draw all their licenses at some point in time.
Wyoming has a quota on all NR licenses and even when they raise fees or change PP details, NR complain loudly and yet application numbers continue to go up.
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