How to remove leading from barrel

[RifleBowPistol]

Well I have put about 50 of the 405 gr. coated bullets, though the gun. The gun kept wanting to shoot way to the right and low. Then occasionally, it would go high or left and high. Mainly way right and low. I swapped scopes, got the same result. I kept cranking on the turrets, finally got it in the ball park, but did not group for crap. I bunt up the 32 rounds I had loaded, called it done. Well, I looked the gun over, including the muzzle end of the barrel. The barrel is definitely leaded up bad.

The bullets I am using are Rushmore hard cast coated bullets. They are listed as good to 2000 fps. I am only pushing them to 1675 fps. I am thinking they might want to actually try some of their bullets at the velocities they say they are good for.

The recoil like I have said, it fairly heavy for a AR. Well the second shot today, the side charge, charging handle snapped off. I fired the second shot of the day, then felt something hit my right ankle. I looked down and saw the charging handle, I went to pick it up and screw it back in the bolt, but it had snapped off. Luckily I did not lock-tite the bolt handle, like I kept thinking of doing. I had one last bolt handle. I went and changed out the buffer spring to a heavier buffer spring and then put my last charge handle in the bolt. I was then able to continue shooting. After replacing the buffer spring, the cases are dropping about 2' short of where they had been landing. So the spring change, definitely slowed the bolt down.

[RifleBowPistol]

Last night I came up with an idea on getting the lead out of the barrel. Hopefully it will work. Going to try and make some pieces today or tomorrow and see how they work. I got on the internet yesterday, looking for ideas. The only one that seemed like it would work well, was mixing hydrogen peroxide and white vinegar. That seems to work, but I have heard stories about that stuff, pitting steel. Don't think I want to try that idea. Then taking copper scrub pads apart and wrapping the copper around a wire brush, sounds like a day long process.
I am wondering about the idea of putting gas checks on the bullets I got. May have to shape the rear of the bullets on the mill, that would be a pain.

[muzzlebrake]

J-B bore cleaning compound works very good for removing lead. Excessive use is not good as it is abrasive to an extent. Always clean with Bore Shine after using J-B compound. Sweets 7.62 followed by Peroxide will also remove any residual compound. Peroxide will neutralize the ammonia in the Sweets 7.62.
Excessive lead fouling may be a result of the bore never being properly lapped.
It's possible that loading and shooting a series of lapping bullets might bring it around. FYI, J-B compound will help with hand lapping.

[arrowsmack324]

What upper are you shooting? Think I'm going to stick to jacketed bullets for a while longer.

[Walker]

Shoot some jacketed bullets first. The will clean out a bunch of lead. It will save you some elbow grease.

[RifleBowPistol]

Shoot some jacketed bullets first. The will clean out a bunch of lead. It will save you some elbow grease.

No, I made that mistake many years ago. It packed up a bunch of lead about 1 1/2" short of the end of the barrel and bulged the barrel. I was not actually tryin got clean the lead out of the barrel. I had been shooting some 38 specials, I had loaded up a bit faster than I should have, shot numerous of them. Then fired some 357 Mag, 158 gr. jacketed bullets. The first 357 I fired, had some serious recoil, to the point, I knew something was not right. I used to shoot a 44 Mag. most of the time. That first 357 I fired after numerous of those 38s, had some serious recoil. Way more than that 357 ever had before. The following shots had normal recoil. Then later that day, I was leaning the barrel and noticed a ring in the barrel, that I could not get out. Then noticed a bulge in the outside of the barrel the same depth as the ring on the inside of the barrel. That ring inside the barrel, turned out to be full of lead. I knew what happened. I leaded up the barrel pretty bad and did not know it, then fired that jacked 357, it packed up the lead in the barrel, and bulged it. That was pretty scary, when I realized what happened. Not, I did not have any misfires or loads, with no powder.

After that one, I have been vary careful to only shoot low velocity lead ammo, 850 fps or less. I have heard guys talking about doing what you are talking about doing. If you keep track of how much lead in the barrel, don't let it ever amount to much of anything. Then fire a jacketed bullet down the barrel, it's probably fine. I know my rifle right now, has a lot of lead, you can't see the rifling on one side of the end of the muzzle, back up the barrel at least 2". I would not send a jacketed bullet down that barrel.

[RifleBowPistol]

J-B bore cleaning compound works very good for removing lead. Excessive use is not good as it is abrasive to an extent. Always clean with Bore Shine after using J-B compound. Sweets 7.62 followed by Peroxide will also remove any residual compound. Peroxide will neutralize the ammonia in the Sweets 7.62.
Excessive lead fouling may be a result of the bore never being properly lapped.
It's possible that loading and shooting a series of lapping bullets might bring it around. FYI, J-B compound will help with hand lapping.

I will look for some of those. I have used the Sweets 7.62 years ago, I liked it, but have not seen any in a long time. The J-B Bore cleaner, I have never tried.

[RifleBowPistol]

What upper are you shooting? Think I'm going to stick to jacketed bullets for a while longer.

The upper is something I pieced together a few years ago. it's a side charge, billet upper made of 7071 alloy with a T7 heat treat, same or the lower. So the upper and lower can handle some pressures. The barrel is a Radical. Did great with the 350 gr. Hornadys, but the cast bullet idea, needs some more work.

My theory, is most of the cast rifle bullets, such as the ones I am shooting. Are shot from older guns, with long barrels, chambered for calibers such as a 45-70. The powders used in those guns, are going to be slow burning powers, that produce low pressures. But with a 28" or 30" barrel, they can get them up to 2000 fps, with a low pressure powder and powder charge, with a nice slow burning powder. In those situations, it's the friction caused by the speed, that produces the heat, that will melt the bullet.

I am pretty sure what I did, was used a powder charge that produced too high of pressures for those cast bullets. One, it likely deformed the rear of the bullet, causing it to expand, possibly even before the rear of the bullet got to the small end of the throat. Likely the bullet, was deformed and increased in diameter as it was getting pushed into the barrel. I also talked to the company that makes the bullets. They agreed that the higher pressures are likely what caused the bullet to get hot enough to lead the barrel up. Either as a result of deforming the rear of the bullet and or producing enough heat from the burning powder to make the lead liquid.

Either way, the thoughts are, that it's not just bullet speed that can cause a lead bullet to lead up a barrel. Very likely the pressures produce by the powder charge, can cause the bullet to lead up the barrel. The reason I think it might be deforming the bullet and causing it to increase in diameter. Is, I was reading about gas checks, and kept seeing, it listed, that the thicker copper gas checks, will keep the rear of the bullet from being deformed. I think that's what's going on with the loads, where I was using 10X. I am betting 35,000 psi is too high for those cast bullets.

I am going to get the barrel cleaned up and then try some of the H322. After the first day of I shot loads, that used both H322 and 10X, I did not notice any leading in the barrel. I did not notice any, it may have had some, but nothing like, what I got yesterday.

I am going to clean the barrel, then back off the H322 powder charge a bit and shoot some, then see, what, if any leading I get from those. If I get any leading from those, I may put gas checks on these bullets. The guy I talked to at Rushmore today, said, that these bullets are not a gas check design bullet, which I was pretty sure they were not, but not having installed gas checks on bullets previously, I was not 100% sure. But pretty sure, then should have a step on the rear end of the bullet, which these do not. To make these work, I may chuck them up in the lathe and cut a step on the rear end, for a gas check. That would solve the leading problems, but that would mean, I am getting the bullet hot enough to be soft, so it could expand. I should probably just back off to a lower pressure load, which is what I am going to try.

[Mike D]

The upper is something I pieced together a few years ago. it's a side charge, billet upper made of 7071 alloy with a T7 heat treat, same or the lower. So the upper and lower can handle some pressures. The barrel is a Radical. Did great with the 350 gr. Hornadys, but the cast bullet idea, needs some more work.



My theory, is most of the cast rifle bullets, such as the ones I am shooting. Are shot from older guns, with long barrels, chambered for calibers such as a 45-70. The powders used in those guns, are going to be slow burning powers, that produce low pressures. But with a 28" or 30" barrel, they can get them up to 2000 fps, with a low pressure powder and powder charge, with a nice slow burning powder. In those situations, it's the friction caused by the speed, that produces the heat, that will melt the bullet.



I am pretty sure what I did, was used a powder charge that produced too high of pressures for those cast bullets. One, it likely deformed the rear of the bullet, causing it to expand, possibly even before the rear of the bullet got to the small end of the throat. Likely the bullet, was deformed and increased in diameter as it was getting pushed into the barrel. I also talked to the company that makes the bullets. They agreed that the higher pressures are likely what caused the bullet to get hot enough to lead the barrel up. Either as a result of deforming the rear of the bullet and or producing enough heat from the burning powder to make the lead liquid.



Either way, the thoughts are, that it's not just bullet speed that can cause a lead bullet to lead up a barrel. Very likely the pressures produce by the powder charge, can cause the bullet to lead up the barrel. The reason I think it might be deforming the bullet and causing it to increase in diameter. Is, I was reading about gas checks, and kept seeing, it listed, that the thicker copper gas checks, will keep the rear of the bullet from being deformed. I think that's what's going on with the loads, where I was using 10X. I am betting 35,000 psi is too high for those cast bullets.



I am going to get the barrel cleaned up and then try some of the H322. After the first day of I shot loads, that used both H322 and 10X, I did not notice any leading in the barrel. I did not notice any, it may have had some, but nothing like, what I got yesterday.



I am going to clean the barrel, then back off the H322 powder charge a bit and shoot some, then see, what, if any leading I get from those. If I get any leading from those, I may put gas checks on these bullets. The guy I talked to at Rushmore today, said, that these bullets are not a gas check design bullet, which I was pretty sure they were not, but not having installed gas checks on bullets previously, I was not 100% sure. But pretty sure, then should have a step on the rear end of the bullet, which these do not. To make these work, I may chuck them up in the lathe and cut a step on the rear end, for a gas check. That would solve the leading problems, but that would mean, I am getting the bullet hot enough to be soft, so it could expand. I should probably just back off to a lower pressure load, which is what I am going to try.

Taking your theory into consideration, are the cast bullets you are using gas checked?


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[Drycreek3189]

Shoot some jacketed bullets first. The will clean out a bunch of lead. It will save you some elbow grease.

Never do this ! It can cause higher pressures that could damage the gun and/or shooter.

A Lewis Lead Remover will get the leading out or the copper scrub pad on a brush.

[RifleBowPistol]

Never do this ! It can cause higher pressures that could damage the gun and/or shooter.

A Lewis Lead Remover will get the leading out or the copper scrub pad on a brush.

I will look into the Lewis Lead Remover.

[RifleBowPistol]

Taking your theory into consideration, are the cast bullets you are using gas checked?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

No, they are not a gas check design bullet. They have been coated, which did not seem to help a lot.

[TacticalCowboy]

I'll about guarantee I've shot more lead bullets than anyone on this forum. Drag a bore snake through it and see what it looks like.

If you have bad leading after 40 rounds, you have a fitment issue.

I, have, on many occasions, fired, a jacketed bullet, through, a barrel, that had, several hundred, lead bullets, fired through it, and yet, retained all my, digits. In most, cases, a little leading, is normal, and doesn't affect, accuracy or reliability, of the firearm.

[RifleBowPistol]

I think I got the lead out

My lead removal system seems to have worked. On the second attempt, I used 1/4" all thread, my first attempt, I used 8-32 all thread. I stripped the threads on the all thread, when the plug got about 1" into the barrel. So I had to start over, with the 1/4" all thread. Machined a plug with a .458" OD, then cut a step most of the length of the plug. I turned it down to probably .430" or so, I did not measure the diameter of the step. I did that to reduce the friction, so the diameter was not that important. I left about 1/32" to 1/16" of the section that was machined to .458" Then I drilled and tapped the plug to 1/4"X20. Then ran the 1/4" all thread down the barrel, screwed the aluminum plug onto the all thread. Before doing that, I covered the whole length of the all thread, with moly grease. I slid two hardened washers down the all thread and a 1/4" nut. I put the washers at the end of the muzzle. Then got a ratchet wrench slid that down the all thread and put it on the nut. Then clamped the all thread in the vise.

Then started cranking on the nut. It was tight about the first 1", then it lightened up and had low tension for about the first half 3/4s of the barrel. Then it started to get harder to pull the plug. Then it lightened up again after about 1 1/2". Then about 3" from the end of the muzzle, it got noticeable harder to pull the plug, all the way to the end of the muzzle.

Once I got the plug out of the end of the muzzle, there was a good bit of the moly grease between the washers and the plug. I started cleaning the moly grease off of the plug and all thread. There was quite a bit of small chunks of stuff, about the size of grains of sand. Then I found a few slivers of lead in the grease. Most of the lead that was in the grease, would have been difficult to see in a picture, so I did not take a picture of the majority of the grease. But rubbing the grease back and forth between my thumb and index finger, I could feel the grease was full of chunks of something.

Seems to have done a pretty good job of getting the lead out of the barrel. I will clean it with a brush and solvent later. I would say from when I started machining the plug, till I had it all the way through the barrel, probably took an hour. The barrel looks much better now. I have since talked to a couple of other people on the subject, they have had the same problem. Everybody seems to agree, the pressure is too high for these bullets, without gas checks.