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Old 07-29-2021, 05:55 PM   #1
Keith
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Default School me on diesel trucks

I have came across a 2014 Ford F250 with the 6.7 Powerstroke diesel with 140k miles. I've never owned a diesel before and don't currently have a "need" for one. However, I would like to get another travel trailer, and will definitely be getting a center console boat. I know oil changes are more expensive, and fuel filters have to be changed. I'll do both of these myself. How much $ and how often does this need to be fine? What do I need to look for as far as common problems with F250s and 6.7 Powerstrokes?

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Old 07-29-2021, 06:00 PM   #2
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Quote:
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I have came across a 2014 Ford F250 with the 6.7 Powerstroke diesel with 140k miles. I've never owned a diesel before and don't currently have a "need" for one. However, I would like to get another travel trailer, and will definitely be getting a center console boat. I know oil changes are more expensive, and fuel filters have to be changed. I'll do both of these myself. How much $ and how often does this need to be fine? What do I need to look for as far as common problems with F250s and 6.7 Powerstrokes?

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I drive a 2017 F-350 6.7. I also drive a 2017 Toyota Tundra daily. I do the maintenance on my 350 myself, and take the Tundra to get it done at a local joint that’s pretty cheap. They cost me the same on oil changes, but I spend $50 every 20K miles doing the fuel filters myself. That take 10 minutes tops. The expensive part is when something breaks, and tires don’t last as long.

I guess I’ll add what I pay. I spend $90 on an oil change ever 10K miles on my 6.7, and $65 on an oil change every 7K miles on my Tundra. Fuel is about the same, but that’s because Tundras are about the least efficient truck to ever be produced in the 20th century. My 350 is on 37s, and still gets better mileage. Diesel is just slightly more expensive though.

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Old 07-29-2021, 08:09 PM   #3
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Default School me on diesel trucks

I drive a 2019 F250 and will reiterate what Anthony said. If youíre going to do your oil changes and fuel filters, maintenance costs are not bad at all. It costs me about $80 to change my oil every 10k miles using Rotella Full Synthetic and $50 for fuel filters every 15k. (Motorcraft Fuel Filters are much cheaper on Amazon than at the dealer)

It seems like the main issues you see with modern diesels are CP4 fuel pump failures due to bad fuel and emissions issues. My emissions system fell off my pickup, so I donít have to worry about that anymore. I always try fill up at high volume fuel stations to prevent bad fuel and also use Hotshots EDT additive to be safe.

With that said, itís pretty hard to go wrong with the 6.7. They are great engines and have more power than you will ever need.

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Old 07-29-2021, 08:56 PM   #4
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Tell me is the truck I found is a good deal, or not. I would only buy it if it's a good deal. If I don't like it, I'd like to get my money back out of it.


It is a 2014 Lariat, FX4 Off Road, loaded with everything other than a sun roof. Crew Cab on 35X12.50R20LT (will need to be replaced in about a year) with leather heated and cooled seats, navigation, backup camera (camera has a short, it sometimes stops working) 140k miles, dual climate control, factory 5th wheel hitch and a heavy duty replacement front bumper. What should this truck sell for, what would be a fair price?
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Old 07-29-2021, 09:01 PM   #5
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Maintenance is not a huge cost relatively speaking to the overall cost. Repair is a different story. Seems like nothing is cheaper than 1k on newer diesel trucks and heaven forbid a catastrophic failure. If you get the truck make sure you use the right weight oil. I am pretty sure in our climate they reccoment 5w40. A reputable engine builder has said that every stock 6.7 he has gotten that was bad was due to a spun bearing and when asked what oil they used it was always a heavier weight oil. Tolerances are super tight on these engines and require a lighter oil.
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Old 07-29-2021, 09:05 PM   #6
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Kbb says around 33k
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Old 07-29-2021, 09:27 PM   #7
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How much would it cost to delete and is it worth it? He said on the highway it will get about 18 mpg, does that sound like an honest number?

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Old 07-29-2021, 10:45 PM   #8
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I had a 05 chevy and hust sold it as you know. It got 15-16 so 18 is good.Routine maintenance is not that much more if you do it yourself. Repairs are all expensive now a days. The miles on the one your looking at are not an issue at 140000. I always look at the beds in trucks. If all beat up I moved on. Thats just me.
Look around the ball area. If its all beat up then it pulled a lot. Find out from the owner what it was it pulled. The 6.7 is a good motor. The 6.0 had a lot of issues.
Look at KBB and use the average quote. If you think its a good deal and like it buy it.
Just remember at the pump..Put diesel in it !!
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Old 07-29-2021, 11:44 PM   #9
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How much would it cost to delete and is it worth it? He said on the highway it will get about 18 mpg, does that sound like an honest number?

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I have not had my Ford deleted yet . Was told it can be done for 1200 for just the def delete. And another 1200 for the egr delete.
It was definitely worth it when I had my duramaxís deleted.
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Old 07-30-2021, 12:36 AM   #10
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My 2016 got 14.1 average over 105,000 miles.If you don't delete it,it will need a def heater soon;if not already replaced.Buy fuel where they sell lots of it.
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Old 07-30-2021, 01:08 AM   #11
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All the diesels I had were pre DEF but they were all tuned. It was absolutely worth it. For smoking some kid in what he thought was a fast car in a truck with farm plates alone it was worth it
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Old 07-30-2021, 05:57 AM   #12
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FWIW- the 2011-2014's came with 400hp/800 ft/lb torque.

in 2015 the numbers jumped to 440/860
Then another bump in 2017- 440/925
Than again even higher in 2020+

Meaning- the mpg's on the 2011-14's will be higher than the following years- more hp/torque = more fuel required.

Bigger wheels/ tires and a replacement front bumper = decrease in mpg's from factory.
The 18's he's claiming sound about right, but saying "it gets 18 on the highway" vs a tank to tank comparison including exhaust regen cycles are 2 different things.

Also the early years had ceramic bearings in the turbo that liked to fail, I'm pretty sure they went a different path in 2013+ trucks.

I deleted a 2011 I had at 92k and drove until 155ish on the clock.

It got waaaay better fuel economy than my current 2019 does.
2011 deleted= 18.5-22mpg a tank (3.31 gears, stock tires), 2019- 16-17.5 (3.55 gears, stock everything).


At 140k, new shocks and body mounts are in order if he hasn't replaced them already. My a/c was acting squirrely at 155k (would freeze up on recirc mode when towing).

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Old 07-30-2021, 07:17 AM   #13
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Quote:
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How much would it cost to delete and is it worth it? He said on the highway it will get about 18 mpg, does that sound like an honest number?

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Not sure about the delete $ , but that 18 mpg is probably strictly driving down the road. I average right at 16 with quite a few highway miles in my stock Ď14.


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Old 07-30-2021, 08:08 AM   #14
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Quote:
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How much would it cost to delete and is it worth it? He said on the highway it will get about 18 mpg, does that sound like an honest number?

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So you are getting really low numbers on fuel filter and oil change prices. I run Rotella T6 full synthetic, with WIX filters, and I am usually in each oil change about $150-180. I do them myself, usually about every 7500 miles. MPG, if I had to guess, is between 14-18. I also tow our TT, and the gauge in the dash says 9 mpg, but the gauge is usually 2 gallons off over an entire tank, so real mpg is probably closer to 8 or less.

18 mpg? No doesn't sound like a real number. My 2012 weighs, with a topper shell, at 8400 lbs. It's a heavy truck. With those rims/bigger tires on that truck, the weight only goes up, not to mention the amount of power to spin a larger diameter wheel. You can reasonably expect 15-18 mpg. A delete cost my friend about 2,700, 9 years ago. I imagine it's cheaper now. And I would do the delete ASAP, but put a good muffler on the truck so you don't have to listen to it drone pulling your TT.

Also, I disagree with Dave's interpretation of more power equals worse MPG. If I run my truck in the extreme tune (650 hp and 1200 ft lbs), I get the most distance on a full tank. If I run in the stock tune (400 hp, 800 ft lbs), I don't get near as far on a full tank. I don't know what the numbers actually are, but I know the tank goes empty much faster. He is right about the ceramic bearings, though my 2012 has 177k on the clock, and knock on wood, no issues with the turbo or fuel pump. The truck has been absolutely bulletproof.

Buy it. You will love it. I've had mine 9 years now, and I still smile when I get in it every day.
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Old 07-30-2021, 09:54 AM   #15
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Thanks for the info guys, I'm learning a lot. Keep it coming.

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Old 07-30-2021, 10:03 AM   #16
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Trucks, especially diesels, are sky high right now.
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Old 07-30-2021, 10:04 AM   #17
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Traded my 2014 F350 in at 147k miles. Only issues were emissions system and DEF heater, right before I traded. Took 3 weeks for dealer to get problem solved on the last issues. Besides that it was a good truck.
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Old 07-30-2021, 10:10 AM   #18
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If you buy, another expense CAN be diesel fuel additive to add cetane to the fuel to Hopefully keep your fuel pump from cratering.

I use Power Services Diesel Kleen or Hot Shot products, every tank.
Mostly for a feel good measure, but also considered cheap insurance.

If your HPFP goes- you are in it for 8-12k for repairs depending on how you do it.
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Old 07-30-2021, 10:36 AM   #19
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I'm in almost the very same situation as the OP...great timing and info on this thread guys, most appreciated.

Knowing the used market for these trucks is sky high right now, anyone have a way of knowing what the market was pre covid truck pandemic? I am close to a 2014 lariat 4x4 also but want to know what kind of spread I am looking at between used sale prices 6 months ago vs. now. Any ideas how to get this data would be most appreciated!
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Old 07-30-2021, 10:47 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveC View Post
If you buy, another expense CAN be diesel fuel additive to add cetane to the fuel to Hopefully keep your fuel pump from cratering.

I use Power Services Diesel Kleen or Hot Shot products, every tank.
Mostly for a feel good measure, but also considered cheap insurance.

If your HPFP goes- you are in it for 8-12k for repairs depending on how you do it.
I doubt we have a two week freeze again this year , but adding these will definitely keep you on the road when the weather is below 20* for a few days, we had lots of folks sitting in the driveway waiting for warmer weather because fuel gel
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Old 07-30-2021, 10:50 AM   #21
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I owned a 2011, fully deleted and tuned with 35's and leveled. The 18 mpg he's claiming for a non-deleted truck seems pretty optimistic.

All info presented so far is spot on, i also experienced a small fitting from my turbo coolant line to start leaking and it was a pain to change but a cheap part. I bought mine with about 116k on the clock and immediately had to do shocks and wheel bearings and stearing stabilizer to tighten everything back up. Again pretty normal for heavy diesel trucks running bigger tires.

If youre not afraid to get dirty and bust some knuckles, these trucks are fun to own and serve their purpose.

I now own a 2012 Ram 2500 fully tuned and deleted to pull my 5th wheel. I do all my own maintenance and plan on this truck easily making it to 300k.
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Old 07-30-2021, 11:30 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by 68rustbucket View Post
Traded my 2014 F350 in at 147k miles. Only issues were emissions system and DEF heater, right before I traded. Took 3 weeks for dealer to get problem solved on the last issues. Besides that it was a good truck.
Mind if I ask how much they have you?

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Old 07-30-2021, 11:35 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveC View Post
If you buy, another expense CAN be diesel fuel additive to add cetane to the fuel to Hopefully keep your fuel pump from cratering.

I use Power Services Diesel Kleen or Hot Shot products, every tank.
Mostly for a feel good measure, but also considered cheap insurance.

If your HPFP goes- you are in it for 8-12k for repairs depending on how you do it.
That's a scary thought! Why is a fuel pump so expensive?

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Old 07-30-2021, 11:42 AM   #24
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Quote:
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That's a scary thought! Why is a fuel pump so expensive?

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It’s not the pump so much, as the labor involved with pulling and flushing all equipment and lines to and from the tank including injectors.


Here's some fun reading-
https://www.tceq.texas.gov/airqualit...lesource/txled

In a nutshell, the East side of our great state must have a 48 cetane rating or higher, the west side, not so much- Federal minim is 40. Cetane helps with combustion = better fuel mileage.



I went to the rabbit hole of fuel requirements and lubricity and had to back out.
Lets just say I'm still gonna be adding some slippery stuff each tank to try and keep a busted fuel pump at bay.

Here's more fun reading on this boogey man subject.
https://www.hotshotsecret.com/blog/categories/cp4-pump/

Last edited by DaveC; 07-30-2021 at 12:07 PM.
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Old 07-30-2021, 12:33 PM   #25
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That should be a good truck. I drive a 14 not deleted and get about 14 average or less when I tow my 5th wheel. My def heater did go out but I opted to fix it as it has never given me any trouble and is easy on def. They make a fuel bypass kit to prevent the fuel pump issues you hear about. I had it done to my truck as insurance.

https://dalessuperstore.com/c-120959...hoC_fgQAvD_BwE

What are they asking?
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Old 07-30-2021, 12:40 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Nova View Post
That should be a good truck. I drive a 14 not deleted and get about 14 average or less when I tow my 5th wheel. My def heater did go out but I opted to fix it as it has never given me any trouble and is easy on def. They make a fuel bypass kit to prevent the fuel pump issues you hear about. I had it done to my truck as insurance.

https://dalessuperstore.com/c-120959...hoC_fgQAvD_BwE

What are they asking?
I hope to buy it around $26, 000, sound reasonable? He's owned it about 3 years and put around 20,000 miles on it.

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Old 07-30-2021, 01:14 PM   #27
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I did a search on the high pressure fuel pump and it said they typically last about 100k miles. Is that right?? That is crazy to expect a $8,000 to $12,000 repair every 5 years!

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Old 07-30-2021, 01:33 PM   #28
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I’ve been looking at these pretty hard the last month or so. The ones I have seen similar to that are 35-40. 26k sounds like a bargain.
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Old 07-30-2021, 01:36 PM   #29
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Quote:
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I did a search on the high pressure fuel pump and it said they typically last about 100k miles. Is that right?? That is crazy to expect a $8,000 to $12,000 repair every 5 years!

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Sounds about right!
My f350 @101,000 ď out of warranty ď had a/c problem I about had a heart attack when they told me they needed to basically remove the cabin to fix the problem, and I should replace A-X
While the cabin was off , spent $397.78 to recharge it and drove it
To the dealership for a $24000 trade in , $9000 ac repair and death wobble will have me thinking twice about a Ford and a diesel again
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Old 07-30-2021, 01:46 PM   #30
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I think it sounds like a good deal if the truck is solid. As I said above, the fuel pumps can be a problem but the 10k repair comes when your fuel pump trashes your fuel rails and injectors. They make a fuel rerouting kit that prevents that from happening and I think it is good insurance.

For that price i'll bet you could buy it and flip it.
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Old 07-30-2021, 03:18 PM   #31
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I think it sounds like a good deal if the truck is solid. As I said above, the fuel pumps can be a problem but the 10k repair comes when your fuel pump trashes your fuel rails and injectors. They make a fuel rerouting kit that prevents that from happening and I think it is good insurance.

For that price i'll bet you could buy it and flip it.

What does a "fuel rerouting kit" cost, installed? That prevents it from trashing the fuel rails and injectors? Is this a Ford item, or aftermarket?
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Old 07-30-2021, 03:28 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith View Post
I did a search on the high pressure fuel pump and it said they typically last about 100k miles. Is that right?? That is crazy to expect a $8,000 to $12,000 repair every 5 years!

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Take this with a grain of salt because I dont even have a 6.7 but I do listen to a bunch of diesel podcasts that gets a bunch of diesel shops input on what issues trucks have, why it happens and then convienently tell you how they have a product to solve for said issue. Based on what I have heard the majority of fuel pumps that they open up have rust spots in it due to water in the fuel. Yes there is also a lubricity issue but the main issue is people getting bad fuel that has too much water in it that the seperator can not catch. Rust spots start wearing into the material of the pump and shavings go down stream tearing everything up. I have not heard anyone say that they had to replace one at 100k just do to normal wear and tear, there was always an underlying issue.

I do strongly suggest the hotshot sectret EDT every fill up. Cheap insurance in the long run.
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Old 07-30-2021, 03:39 PM   #33
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Fuel mileage… in a diesel? They are meant to pull so you just get a drag-up tank and fill them up when they get low! If you want mileage get a VW. ;-)

Also, if you are running considerably larger tires then the gears need to match accordingly!
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Old 07-30-2021, 04:34 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith View Post
What does a "fuel rerouting kit" cost, installed? That prevents it from trashing the fuel rails and injectors? Is this a Ford item, or aftermarket?
https://www.thoroughbreddiesel.com/7...RoCyRIQAvD_BwE

Here you go sir. Like Nova said, it is good insurance.
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Old 07-30-2021, 05:45 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith View Post
I did a search on the high pressure fuel pump and it said they typically last about 100k miles. Is that right?? That is crazy to expect a $8,000 to $12,000 repair every 5 years!

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I know several folks with well over 100k that have never had to replace the pump. My bil is pushing 230k and has never had 1 issue. He deleted around 100k.
I have 86k on my 16. Not one issue. All stock.

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Old 07-30-2021, 05:56 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by S-3 Ranch View Post
Sounds about right!

My f350 @101,000 ď out of warranty ď had a/c problem I about had a heart attack when they told me they needed to basically remove the cabin to fix the problem, and I should replace A-X

While the cabin was off , spent $397.78 to recharge it and drove it

To the dealership for a $24000 trade in , $9000 ac repair and death wobble will have me thinking twice about a Ford and a diesel again
What causes the "death wobble"? I have seen it mentioned here and have seen videos of Ford's that do it, but what causes it to happen? What is the fix, or is there one? Is there anything I can do on a test drive that would make it go into the death wobble? I think it only happens from time to time, even on trucks that are prone to it, yet others never seem to have that issue.

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Old 07-31-2021, 04:11 PM   #37
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Going to look at it in the morning. I know to check for leaks, rust, body and frame damage and milky oil. Anything specific I need to check on a Ford 6.7?

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Old 07-31-2021, 04:14 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Bucknaked View Post
Fuel mileageÖ in a diesel? They are meant to pull so you just get a drag-up tank and fill them up when they get low! If you want mileage get a VW. ;-)

Also, if you are running considerably larger tires then the gears need to match accordingly!
Verifying his claimed fuel mileage is more to see if the guy is lying. If he's lying about that, he's probably lying about the rest of the truck.

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Old 07-31-2021, 04:47 PM   #39
TreyRo
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Looks like a nice truck. 26k is a great deal if it’s clean, a steal if it’s clean and has a lot of options.

18 might be doable unloaded all highway but kinda doubt it with the wheels/tires on there.

I don’t care to calculate mileage anymore but I get 15/16 unloaded mostly highway with 37s.
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Old 07-31-2021, 05:45 PM   #40
DaveC
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Quote:
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Verifying his claimed fuel mileage is more to see if the guy is lying. If he's lying about that, he's probably lying about the rest of the truck.

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Easy there Keith, lying about fuel mileage is second up to lying about what someone paid for a vehicle. (For some)
I wouldnít base your decision on that alone.

Get it up to speed, hit reset on the instant miles per gallon then drive it about 10 miles at speed, no stops and youíll know a round about figure for mileage (minus regens).

What to look for offhand- there are 2 coolant systems- 2 reservoirs- that water doesnít touch each other -as in completely separate. They will most likely look like pond water on each one. If they are green or orange in color, kudos to the owner for actually changing them out.

Radiator leaks- the frame flexes and causes the radiator to crack on SOME of these trucks, not all. But if so there will be soil spots below each side of the radiator, itís the sides that crack, not the core.

Body mounts, not too expensive to replace- but not cheap either. There are 8-10 sets if I remember correctly, itís the ones at the front of the cab and under front seats that like to crumble. Easy to spot, lack of cushions where they belong.

To get a truck to death wobble you need to drive over some bumpy pavement at speed, purposely hit bumps with one tire but not both. That should bring it on.
My 2011 never had it, but my 19 felt loosely goosy until I had itís recall done- which feels to have cured it.

Check for smells in cab, my neighbor had a 14 that would not quit leaking water on passenger side inside cab. He chased it for years then finally gave up and traded it for a GMC. It evidently stunk on the passenger side near the floorboard.

I canít dream up anything else offhand that hasnít already been covered. Iíll post before you leave if I do.


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Old 07-31-2021, 07:27 PM   #41
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Thanks for the tips everyone, I am going to look at it tomorrow morning. If you think of anything else I should check or be aware of, please post it. I don't want to make an expensive mistake.
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Old 08-01-2021, 12:08 AM   #42
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I’m not gonna ad much, since so much has already been said, but I will say this. The 6.7 Scorpion is one of the most reliable/solid diesel engines Ford has produced (sorry 7.3 guys). By 2014, the few minor issues that they did have, were lined out. Of the 6.7’s, I’ve had a 12, 14, 17, and a 19….not a single issue with any of them. Keep the fuel filters replaced and keep a spare set in the truck with you. When you start to hear a whining noise coming from under the drivers seat/side of the truck, change the filters right then. If not, it’ll leave you sitting on the side of the road. The factory shocks on these trucks sucked and still do. Especially the rears. Change them out with a quality shock. The paint that FoMo used on the frame/underside of these trucks sucked. Don’t be surprised to see some surface rust on drive line components, axles, etc….. it’s normal. Even a new truck with 10,000 miles on it would already have some surface rust on the U-joints.
The truck is out of warranty. Delete it. Get a good programer that will “learn” your transmission and TC. Not a single canned tune. Get a 4”-5” turbo back stainless exhaust. Even with straight pipe and nothing else the truck won’t be very loud. At a stop light it’s going to sound like a giant hair dryer. Not much different when you take off either.

That truck should have an E-locker with 3.31 gears, unless special ordered differently. Those gears may seem high, but tow with it and you’ll see that they aren’t. My 14 had 22” wheels with 40” tires and I pulled a triple axle trailer w/ 35ft Donzi with it all over the country. It never missed a beat. Don’t let anyone tell you it needs to be regeared to haul anything it’s capable of stopping.
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Old 08-02-2021, 09:03 AM   #43
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Quote:
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What causes the "death wobble"? I have seen it mentioned here and have seen videos of Ford's that do it, but what causes it to happen? What is the fix, or is there one? Is there anything I can do on a test drive that would make it go into the death wobble? I think it only happens from time to time, even on trucks that are prone to it, yet others never seem to have that issue.

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Death wobble is a very opinionated sunject. I think it is a track bar and bushing issue both of which are taken care of by an aftermarket track bar. Caster is also a big issue. I have heard from several reputable shops that they get stock trucks right off the dealership lot that are out of spec for the caster. People will say just add a dual stabilizer which can/might take care of the issue but you are treating the symptoms not the disease IMO.

With all of that said I have heard people claim they replaces all the moving joints and bushings including the track bar, made sure their caster was perfect and added a dual stablizer and the truck still has death wobble. I wouldnt let it deter me from buying a truck because I have gotten rid of my death wobble and helped fix several of my other friends trucks also.
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Old 08-02-2021, 09:32 AM   #44
WItoTX
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Dang Kieth, asking all the questions that have widely varying, sometimes very politicized answers!

Let us know how the test drive went.
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Old 08-03-2021, 03:14 PM   #45
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Well did we end up with a new truck?
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Old 08-03-2021, 03:58 PM   #46
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Ive got a 2014 6.7. Been a great truck so far. I deleted it at about 250k miles. My ECM went out and took about 15 days to get the new one. Had to have my programmer come and “in-delete” the truck to install the new ECM. It was a headache but needed up being ok. I’m not so sure I would delete another truck again. I know there are a lot of folks that would disagree with that but, that’s my thoughts on it.
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Old 08-03-2021, 04:30 PM   #47
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250k on stock emissions is impressive.
I have a 16 with 85k and may delete it if I start having emission issues. Hopefully mine will go 250k
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Old 08-03-2021, 07:32 PM   #48
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One thing is resale value. You might pay more up front for a diesel. You will get more at the end when you decide to sell. I am sure you already knew that though.
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Old 08-03-2021, 08:42 PM   #49
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I haven't purchased it, at least not yet. I was actually looking at a boat and the ad said he would also sell the truck as a package deal. I met him at the lake to test the boat, but it's pretty rough. Because of the boats condition, I think it's overpriced. However the truck is priced pretty good, but he won't sell just the truck.
The first owner of boat obviously used it in salt water, but didn't take care of it. There are rusting stainless hinges and screws, pitting on the aluminum jack plate, and numerous wiring issues. Plus I think the boat has water trapped in the hull, it sits about 4-5" deeper in the water than any other identical boat I could find pictures of. Then to top it off, the 200 Yamaha would barely get it on plane. I think that's because of a mixture of water in the hull and a prop with too high of pitch.
If I could buy just the truck, I would, but I don't want the boat.

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Old 08-03-2021, 10:07 PM   #50
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Kinda smart on the sellers part, it sounds like he priced the truck reasonably enough to hopefully get someone to take the sub par boat off his hands.
There are plenty others out there, now is just not a great time to buy any vehicle due to inflated pricing the demand the chip shortage has caused.


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