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Old 04-30-2021, 04:45 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by encinal View Post
all i can say is... I would rather take a vaccine developed in 1 year with the best medical technology available in 2021 than one developed in 10 years with the best medical technology in 1920...

But most people are acting like they feel the opposite.
yep!
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Old 04-30-2021, 05:17 PM   #52
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The question people should be asking- Why if there are medications that overcome the symptoms of Covid then why not use them instead of a vaccine that is in an infant state? These medications are FDA approved and been used for many years but would be off label if used for Covid. Phizer is running one through that almost mirrors HCQ now. Should these medications been available to the people that died from this virus?

It's all about the $$$$$$$.

Follow the $$$$$.

Also fear and control/power.
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Old 04-30-2021, 05:29 PM   #53
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The question people should be asking- Why if there are medications that overcome the symptoms of Covid then why not use them instead of a vaccine that is in an infant state? These medications are FDA approved and been used for many years but would be off label if used for Covid. Phizer is running one through that almost mirrors HCQ now. Should these medications been available to the people that died from this virus?
When they began to silence doctors and patients who were taking HCQ with positive results as well as suppressing data from other countries using HCQ succesffuly. That was one of the biggest red flags to me that something wasn't right, and made me stand back and begin to question the whole thing. It made me begin to question the mortality rates, the vaccine, the mask ...everything.

It personally reminds me of my experience going through the initial global warming fiasco.
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Old 05-01-2021, 08:38 AM   #54
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Another red flag- Why are about half of healthcare workers not getting this? It is science and it advances. I think at some point Mrna vaccines will be figured out and hope they are. Just too many ???? for me at this time
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Old 05-01-2021, 09:25 AM   #55
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Our cells pick up the mRNA and produce a protein to trick our immune system to think a virus is present.
Good breakdown, thank you. Can you help me understand why people are having a some what severe reactions to the vaccine? And why you need 2 rounds of it, hearing that a good amount of healthy people are getting their tails kicked with the second dose?


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Old 05-01-2021, 09:30 AM   #56
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I must say I'm surprised at you, Encinal. I usually enjoy your "thought question" threads and though I don't know you I think of you as a very logical person. However, the argument above (That since the FDA is government, people can't value their certification despite being overall mistrustful of government) doesn't really hold water. Besides, I don't think people were really arguing that lack of FDA-approval is the reason they won't take it, more that there is not a years/decades long record of possible long-term effects.

Responding to the first sentence of your post, statistically the miniscule chance of adverse effects certainly is better than 10% of old people dying from covid, I agree with you there 100%. If I were 75-80+ y/o, I would get the vax in a heartbeat (because the hard truth is someone that age doesn't have to think about long term effects.) HOWEVER, the statistics are not really the point for most people... the point is that you can't afford to be the .0001% who die or get a tumor or are rendered infertile or whatever else. They may be few in number, but try looking someone in the eye who died of blood clotting from whichever vax that was and tell them that the likelihood is ridiculously small and they should ditch the tinfoil. That's the same reason I think the original post is dumb and TAMU is missing the point... it's not the science that I'm worried about, it's what the science doesn't know yet. No scientist on Earth can tell you the 5, 10 or 30-year effects of this vaccine. They can guess, but when it's life in the balance a guess isn't good enough for me. Imo, perhaps the greatest piece of wisdom on Earth is to know you don't know; modern medicine is amazing, the scientists know an amazing amount, have saved and will continue to save lives, but they don't know everything and the risk is not worth it to me as someone on the younger side who has the long term to think about.
The 6? People out of the millions who got the vaccine that have had blood clotting problems?

Fact of the matter is, it is far less risky to get the vaccine than not to get it.

Donít know where all this antivaxx stuff came from. Like... if youíre tough enough to risk getting the disease with its known short term effects (and unknown long term effects) why arenít you tough enough to get the vaccine with its fewer and less severe short term effects and unknown long term effects.

Youíre risking long term effects of the disease by not getting the vaccine.
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Old 05-01-2021, 09:32 AM   #57
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uhhh... is it less bad than 10% of old people dying of it.

I think thats a pretty definitive yes.

Blows my mind that the same people that don't trust the government are using the argument that it isnt fully FDA approved as an argument against taking it.

People watch too many zombie movies.
I tend to agree. I got vaccinated. My family doctor and i talked about it. He advised it. I respect his opinion and the opinion of healthcare professionals and medical scientists over the opinions of people on the internet. But that's just me.
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Old 05-01-2021, 09:33 AM   #58
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Bat- no one really knows what changes occur and why some have more changes than others. It is new to being used on humans. If interested and you like researching it is worth a look. The tests on other critters have mixed results. It is fascinating science though. It actually tricks “alters” your body.
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Old 05-01-2021, 09:37 AM   #59
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Encinal- what is the problem with fighting the illness with medications that have proven highly effective if given early? I dont get flu vaccination but get to the Dr quickly and get Tamaflu.

Folks should be angry over not treating if anything. Effects of vaccine are not known- give me a 10 year trial on any Mrna vaccine and humans- Its been around since the 1970s

Do some digging and explain this to me. People that have Lupus have a poor immune system. They are treated with a certain medication. People with Lupus do not get severe Covid. What medication are they taking for their condition that combats Covid?

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Old 05-01-2021, 09:41 AM   #60
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Antivaxers and young earthers all on one thread? Always nice to be reminded this sort of ignorance is out there.
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Old 05-01-2021, 10:08 AM   #61
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Encinal- what is the problem with fighting the illness with medications that have proven highly effective if given early? I dont get flu vaccination but get to the Dr quickly and get Tamaflu.

Folks should be angry over not treating if anything. Effects of vaccine are not known- give me a 10 year trial on any Mrna vaccine and humans- Its been around since the 1970s

Do some digging and explain this to me. People that have Lupus have a poor immune system. They are treated with a certain medication. People with Lupus do not get severe Covid. What medication are they taking for their condition that combats Covid?
People with lupus take hydroxychloroquine.

That perhaps is a treatment, but it doesnít prevent you from getting the disease.

The vaccines have proven to prevent you from getting the disease.. AND... drastically lower your risk of severe disease if you do get it.
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Old 05-01-2021, 10:15 AM   #62
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It absolutely is not proven in any form as the long term human trials are ongoing as we speak...I hope the research proves as much, but to make claims it is safe long term is foolish when you have thousands of short term / immediate adverse reactions. Remember, only a fraction of people understand there is even a vaers available, but seems to be catching on.

https://mobile.twitter.com/AlexBeren...51972096839685
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Old 05-01-2021, 10:20 AM   #63
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I donít buy first year model vehicles and Iím going to do my best to avoid a first year model vaccine. But if I were elderly/higher risk and hadnít already had the virus I imagine Iíd look at it differently and consider it.
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Old 05-01-2021, 10:36 AM   #64
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Lots of serious diseases were virtually wiped out by vaccines many years ago. Before the internet came along and made vaccines less effective...
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Old 05-01-2021, 10:44 AM   #65
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Ran across this which supports all the other percentages I've seen...for me, I just don't see any reason just like I don't take the flu shot (which has not been 'fixed' with these miracle mrna's...why isn't that being questioned??)

I'll throw my faith into therapeutics for corona / sars / covid type cooties...you are not getting immunized with this jab, it will be forever ongoing like the flu. Covid is not the plague.
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Old 05-01-2021, 10:46 AM   #66
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Fact of the matter is, it is far less risky to get the vaccine than not to get it.
No one knows this to be true yet....no one. Only time will tell what the risks to each were.

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Old 05-01-2021, 11:02 AM   #67
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So if folks being treated for Lupus have very little chances of getting a virus and or having a serious case of the virus because they are taking a medication- why did the Government allow so many to die and why this cheap medication that has been given to humans for many generations not made available to the masses? And why are the people that lost loved ones or that had a serious bout of this virus not demanding answers? It makes me sick to think that people are allowed to perish and suffer because of the money$. If im wrong answer the above questions
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Old 05-01-2021, 11:07 AM   #68
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Antivaxers and young earthers all on one thread? Always nice to be reminded this sort of ignorance is out there.
I'm not an anti-vaxxer per se. But I'm high risk (over 65). And I take offense at being called ignorant! I have looked @ this and researched it from the beginning and have decided to not get the vaccine. The science is new and not exactly proven. All the lies spouted by politicians and "medical experts" have given me a reason to think and look into it seriously.
There are proven remedies, not preventative, that have been proven effective against the disease, but were touted as totally ineffective and probably fatal to the users, by people who had lots to gain monetarily. Myself and the wife have taken HCQ, the wife for 9 months,with no ill effects. And there are lots of other medications that have proven effective against it, but again are outlawed or pshawed by "people in the know".
Lots of propaganda out there about this disease and the "cures" and lots of money to be made. That is why I chose not to take the vaccine. Lots of BS about it gives me pause as who to believe. That and the fact that I have survived for over a year of the "pandemic" by doing my due diligence and just keeping on with life and not worrying about what others think. It's my life!
Moral of this story is that most of the people who have chosen not to wear masks and take the vaccine are not ignorant, but informed people. Choose your words wisely!

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Old 05-01-2021, 11:46 AM   #69
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The Dunning-Kruger effect is all over this thread.
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Old 05-01-2021, 11:54 AM   #70
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.....they’ve been working on this for years and the dude was right, they won’t even have to force it on people. I’m 100% sure I’ll die someday, but I’m 1000% sure it won’t be from this vaccine.....to each his own, but not for me or my family.

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Old 05-01-2021, 11:03 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by batmaninja View Post
Good breakdown, thank you. Can you help me understand why people are having a some what severe reactions to the vaccine? And why you need 2 rounds of it, hearing that a good amount of healthy people are getting their tails kicked with the second dose?


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Iím not sure why some are having more severe reactions to the vaccines than others. I always appreciate having a immune response to vaccines so I know they activate my immune system. In my mind of minds, I know my immune system is responding whether I feel it or not, but it i feel better when I am feeling ďcruddyĒ the following day, which brings me to my second point.
Your immune system has something called memory. Think of it like, ďtrick me once, shame on you. Trick me twice, shame on me.Ē
When I was a kid, the high school and middle school bus would drop us off on the same county road. When I started riding the middle school bus the first week, the high school boys caught us and wore our asses out. We had no idea it was coming. The next time, we were wiser, but not enough to know much better until the second time. After that, once we hit the county road we knew it was time to stack hands and fight back if their bus had already dropped them off or high tail it if they hadnít. We remembered and had our act together.
During an infection, you will produce some memory B cells which remain in your lymphatic and circulatory system. They are short lived cells unless you have a severe or repeated infection. The second infection can cause these cells to linger for months to years, depending on how strong of a reaction you have to the pathogen, like a virus. Many vaccines require boosters to get a ďgood memory.Ē
The graph below shows you how a second exposure will help maintain that memory. This is why I like having a physical response to vaccines I take. I know the response is building memory with B cells.
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Old 05-01-2021, 11:33 PM   #72
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Pope...why hasn't mrna cured the world (proved it's worthiness) of such similar cooties like the common flu / cold / swine / etc over all this time & it's now all the sudden a miracle cure for C19 we should blindly trust??

Can you please share any long term human mrna test studies to support your confidence these jabs are a big solid down the road when allthewhile we have many bad short term adverse reactions on vaers?? I'm hoping you are correct, but doubt you have any 411 as the long term human case studies are currently ongoing & yet to be determined...am I misinformed on this aspect??

Why is it a bad option for me to opt out of this vacs with a 99.5 survival rate?? With all these facts, Can you please explain why the media/public has criticized me for my risk vs reward choice as being morally wrong?? I'm trying to understand why you think these vacs are great when there is no proof they are even working & the WHO says as much without the continued BS mask wearing & social distancing!!
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Old 05-02-2021, 07:05 AM   #73
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Not posting these to convince you that the vaccine is without risk but that mRNA has been studied for a long long time. Long before anyone on Facebook began spreading accusations of population control. Totally get it if you donít think COVID is risky enough to get the vaccine, no problem. But for those basing decisions not to get the vaccine due to distrusting the government about mRNA, thatís just not in line with what science has been doing for decades . At a minimum, we at least know that 4 years of testing with mRNA for cancer research (last link) has not shut down the use of mRNA as a mechanism due to safety.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...48013219301483

https://www.labiotech.eu/more-news/u...cine-biontech/

Hereís a clinical trial for cancer treatment that began in 2017.
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT03313778

It seems like some of the skepticism is using the same mentality that the Woke movement uses, where no matter the situation, evidence, etc. there is a twist to lead back to the desired conclusion.


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Old 05-02-2021, 07:28 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by glen View Post
So if folks being treated for Lupus have very little chances of getting a virus and or having a serious case of the virus because they are taking a medication- why did the Government allow so many to die and why this cheap medication that has been given to humans for many generations not made available to the masses? And why are the people that lost loved ones or that had a serious bout of this virus not demanding answers? It makes me sick to think that people are allowed to perish and suffer because of the money$. If im wrong answer the above questions

Seems like these questions are overlooked and never answered. It has been things like this that give me pause about most Covid related things.


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Old 05-02-2021, 08:01 AM   #75
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It is the technology behind being able to make this at scale and we haven’t had this. mRNA vaccines will likely be a go to for other diseases as well, but it is not a silver bullet either. You have to have traditional vaccines similar to J&J to use in countries with poorer infrastructures which can’t store the vaccines at -80 until they can be thawed for use. There will alway be problem.
There are not any long term studies I am aware of or at least large scales studies. They have been studied for a long time since we knew how to do it, but not to the scale needed for production. I’m not a biomedical engineer, but I would assume with some reasonable certainty that there was little reason to use it on flu with labs in place to produce what it needed in a traditional way. The investment wasn’t warranted. You can bet that that with these investments being made now, it’ll be used for others. It is too simple not to use it with the ability to produce it now.
I wouldn’t expect any long term problems, at least not from the mRNA itself. The molecule has such a short half life and is fragile as frog hair. It breaks down if you look at it wrong. Someone who had a severe reaction to it may have a long term effect from whatever response they had to it, but IDK.
As far as it goes for why someone should take it with a disease with such a high survival rate, I think of it in a few ways.
First, let’s say 99.5% is the survival rate. That is 1 in 200 dying in the total population. Have 1 in 200 had problems with the vaccine? No.
Mortality is a lot higher depending on someone’s demographic and I don’t want to be the person who infects someone else. I want to block this **** thing from reproducing and having the chance to infect others who are not healthy like me or give it a chance to reproduce. My great-grandparents raised my grandparents in the great-depression and dust bowl. Everyone rationed and helped one another to get through that. Those children (my grandparents) they raised, signed up and fought Japanese and Germans in WWII and my great-grandparents stayed behind to buy war bonds and ration again for good of us all. My great-grandfather taught me a man if only as good as how he treats the least of us. My family did it for us and my neighbors.
The data does show it is working with infection rates falling. I’m so sick of this past year. As far as masks, I am done with them outside of work. I’m vaccinated and not wearing them despite the advisories. Been a long ****ty year and I’m tired of it like everyone else. I have not seen data that shows people who are vaccinated can spread the disease. I have seen people can still pick it up and test positive without illness. I suspect, but I don’t know, they have very low viral loads and with memory B cells are clearing the viruses very quick. I don’t worry I will spread anything to my elderly neighbors or the public.
I am focused on fishing the post-spawn now! I have to run to get some work done to fish after l have lunch with the family.
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Old 05-02-2021, 08:08 AM   #76
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I want to block this **** thing from reproducing and having the chance to infect others who are not healthy like me or give it a chance to reproduce.
They have openly admitted that the vaccine does not prevent infection from, or transmission of, the virus. All it does is reduce reaction severity leading to fewer hospitalizations and/or deaths. It will creat asymptomatic carriers in mass.

Why should I get the jab if it will leave me as a part of the transmission population, and I am not in a risk category for the severe reaction. There is no carrot for them to dangle for me....


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Old 05-02-2021, 08:11 AM   #77
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People with lupus take hydroxychloroquine.

That perhaps is a treatment, but it doesnít prevent you from getting the disease.

The vaccines have proven to prevent you from getting the disease.. AND... drastically lower your risk of severe disease if you do get it.
This shot has not been proven to prevent you from getting covid and your experts have already stated that several times. It will hopefully lessen your symptoms if you do get it.
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Old 05-02-2021, 08:24 AM   #78
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Calling anyone an “anti-vaxer”, a term coined for people that challenge established science of decades to a century, because they are skeptical of a novel vaccine created in months using technology not approved for humans is some real low digit IQ thinking.

There are people that have weighed all the available information through a jungle of mis information from the media and politicians and weighed that against their perceived risk of Covid have decided the potential risk IS WORTH it.

There are people that have weighed all the available information through a jungle of mis information from the media and politicians and weighed that against their perceived risk of Covid have decided the potential risk IS NOT WORTH it.

Nothing wrong with either decision unless you are telling people you KNOW something to be TRUE. That goes in both directions.

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Old 05-02-2021, 08:33 AM   #79
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Lets just say the vaccine is 100% a success. My question is - Why did certain people block the use of medications that by theory would have prevented 400k deaths? We are told to take a vaccine that has no approval or history yet prevent from taking a medication that is approved and has a history of humans taking it older than anyone reading this. Why is one available as an option now and given away at every WalMart and the other is very hard to get? Why if - someone in your family died from this virus why were they not given a chance to take this proven medication? I guess for some they dont ask because its not on the 6 o’clock news. Me- I ask these questions but seems everyone avoids the answer

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Old 05-02-2021, 08:43 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by glen View Post
Lets just say the vaccine is 100% a success. My question is - Why did certain people block the use of medications that by theory would have prevented 400k deaths? We are told to take a vaccine that has no approval or history yet prevent from taking a medication that is approved and has a history of humans taking it older than anyone reading this. Why is one available as an option now and given away at every WalMart and the other is very hard to get? Why if - someone in your family died from this virus why were they not given a chance to take this proven medication? I guess for some they dont ask because its not on the 6 oíclock news. Me- I ask these questions but seems everyone avoids the answer
We know the answer Glen and they know the answer. THEY just dont like saying it. Always follow the money.
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Old 05-02-2021, 09:08 AM   #81
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This shot has not been proven to prevent you from getting covid and your experts have already stated that several times. It will hopefully lessen your symptoms if you do get it.
Itís like 95% effective at preventing you from getting Covid. (Pfizer and Moderna)
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Old 05-02-2021, 09:08 AM   #82
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I hope a bat and armadillo had relations and this is all a terrible accident from that unholy union.

I fear that an opportunity to sink the economy (and president) and approve a pharmaceutical worth billions (trillions?) was just too irresistible.
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Old 05-02-2021, 09:09 AM   #83
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Itís like 95% effective at preventing you from getting Covid. (Pfizer and Moderna)
Or 95% reduction in symptoms? I'm confused on this point
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Old 05-02-2021, 09:13 AM   #84
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Or 95% reduction in symptoms? I'm confused on this point
Exactly...it's not a traditional vaccine that keeps you from catching it. It's gene manipulation that tricks your body into disregarding any infection. That is why 'they' are insisting the mask & SD be kept in place. There is no end game.
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Old 05-02-2021, 09:17 AM   #85
Jet Black
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Itís like 95% effective at preventing you from getting Covid. (Pfizer and Moderna)
Not exactly true.

They defined ďgetting covidĒ as a positive test AND at least one symptom.

If someone tested positive but didnít have any symptoms they are included in the 95%.

I donít really understand why they would characterize it that way unless the numbers would have been **** otherwise.
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Old 05-02-2021, 10:28 AM   #86
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Not exactly true.

They defined ďgetting covidĒ as a positive test AND at least one symptom.

If someone tested positive but didnít have any symptoms they are included in the 95%.

I donít really understand why they would characterize it that way unless the numbers would have been **** otherwise.
My Dr. told me that the vaccine was 85-95% effective in preventing covid from making me sick enough to need any kind of medical treatment. And 100% effective in preventing death from covid. Said nothing about me being able to carry the virus or testing positive. If it is 95% effective at preventing the virus from making a person ill enough to need any treatment, then there will be a relatively large number who may test positive (if they are tested) who will never show any symptoms. A pretty good claim for a vaccine.
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Old 05-02-2021, 10:30 AM   #87
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Softpoint- Same can be said for People who suffer from Lupus and take HCQ. But that medication has been used for about 100 years with known side effects and testing and cost less than a daily multi-vitamin.
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Old 05-02-2021, 10:38 AM   #88
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So I'm confused now. The vaccine doesn't prevent you from contracting or spreading the virus? But it does keep you from getting seriously ill from it? If that is the case, then isn't it just a pre-treatment and not an actual vaccine?? The age of information certainly is anything but....

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Old 05-02-2021, 10:48 AM   #89
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It is the technology behind being able to make this at scale and we havenít had this. mRNA vaccines will likely be a go to for other diseases as well, but it is not a silver bullet either. You have to have traditional vaccines similar to J&J to use in countries with poorer infrastructures which canít store the vaccines at -80 until they can be thawed for use. There will alway be problem.
There are not any long term studies I am aware of or at least large scales studies. They have been studied for a long time since we knew how to do it, but not to the scale needed for production. Iím not a biomedical engineer, but I would assume with some reasonable certainty that there was little reason to use it on flu with labs in place to produce what it needed in a traditional way. The investment wasnít warranted. You can bet that that with these investments being made now, itíll be used for others. It is too simple not to use it with the ability to produce it now.
I wouldnít expect any long term problems, at least not from the mRNA itself. The molecule has such a short half life and is fragile as frog hair. It breaks down if you look at it wrong. Someone who had a severe reaction to it may have a long term effect from whatever response they had to it, but IDK.
As far as it goes for why someone should take it with a disease with such a high survival rate, I think of it in a few ways.
First, letís say 99.5% is the survival rate. That is 1 in 200 dying in the total population. Have 1 in 200 had problems with the vaccine? No.
Mortality is a lot higher depending on someoneís demographic and I donít want to be the person who infects someone else. I want to block this **** thing from reproducing and having the chance to infect others who are not healthy like me or give it a chance to reproduce. My great-grandparents raised my grandparents in the great-depression and dust bowl. Everyone rationed and helped one another to get through that. Those children (my grandparents) they raised, signed up and fought Japanese and Germans in WWII and my great-grandparents stayed behind to buy war bonds and ration again for good of us all. My great-grandfather taught me a man if only as good as how he treats the least of us. My family did it for us and my neighbors.
The data does show it is working with infection rates falling. Iím so sick of this past year. As far as masks, I am done with them outside of work. Iím vaccinated and not wearing them despite the advisories. Been a long ****ty year and Iím tired of it like everyone else. I have not seen data that shows people who are vaccinated can spread the disease. I have seen people can still pick it up and test positive without illness. I suspect, but I donít know, they have very low viral loads and with memory B cells are clearing the viruses very quick. I donít worry I will spread anything to my elderly neighbors or the public.
I am focused on fishing the post-spawn now! I have to run to get some work done to fish after l have lunch with the family.

The "data", shows it's working, and a success, lololololol.
Surely you jest
The data has definitely convinced me to the point, I know with certainty, I want nothing to do with the vaccine.
Especially when you consider Glenn's point(that's conveniently ignored), about denying medicine that would have saved lives.
Where's all that "data" from your expert side of things?
Looking back I can't find any post where you were advocating HCQ, (which has a lot of "data" behind it) to save lives.
After all, millions and millions are dying according to the "data" right?
"data" & deez seem like they would go well together.
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Old 05-02-2021, 03:44 PM   #90
Encinal
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Originally Posted by Jet Black View Post
Not exactly true.

They defined ďgetting covidĒ as a positive test AND at least one symptom.

If someone tested positive but didnít have any symptoms they are included in the 95%.

I donít really understand why they would characterize it that way unless the numbers would have been **** otherwise.
Uhhh... positive for antibodies...
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Old 05-02-2021, 03:47 PM   #91
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Time for some New material- this is Old!
Nope. Itís new for me!
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