Question about arrow flight

[txtrophy85]

Ok guys, gonna throw a few more questions at you:

I got the Hoyt satori in last week. Outfitted it with 52# trad tech black max limbs, when I took delivery guy at bow shop already had it set up with a custom string, nock and 6- black eagle instinct 500 spine Arrows. Adjusted for the draw length I’m probably pulling around 48ish pounds best I can figure

I started shooting it and as expected I was all over the target, but hitting the target nonetheless.

The last several shooting sessions I have began to work on form and consistency and have gotten to where I know what “ feels right” and my shots have become better and now I’m able to get some semblance of grouping, but am still missing from time to time when I get in my head and think about it too much or not following thru on the shot.

One thing I have noticed is when I release, the arrow flies really wonky about halfway to the target before it straightens out. It has not seemed to affect the accuracy as many of these shots are right where I want them to hit, but majority of the time ( 90-95% of the time ) it seems the arrow is fishtailing for 6-10 yards before it straightens out.

The arrows are 29 1/2 “ ( my draw is 26ish ) and has a 100 grain collar up front with a 125 grain point. Brace height is 8 1/4”

Anyone have any idea what is causing this? Is this a spine issue, length of arrow issue or just a poor release?

[DRT]

Is the nock oriented left or right in the target or in flight.?

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[CRM_95]

Could be any of the above...especially when you're first getting started. Really focus on a smooth release. Relax the back of your hand and think of your fingers as just hooks to pull the string back. Don't make a consious effort to "let go" of the string just pull through and let the string slip away. If you pluck it they'll fish tail for sure. With that said it could be a tuning issue too. Personally I'd just keep focusing on form and consistency then worry about tuning once you have a pretty solid foundation in making sure you're doing the same thing every time.

[Easttxbowman]

I wouldn't worry about arrow flight or tuning until you can get hit the target as is. Then the first thing I'd do is bareshaft tune. You'll be amazed at how much more consistent you'll be when tuned. Those satoris are amazing for tuning. I always got my BH set, made sure tiller was correct for 3under, setup my arrow how I wanted it to be then played with the arrow shelf spacers. If it wouldn't go, I'd revisit arrow until it was right.

[txtrophy85]

Is the nock oriented left or right in the target or in flight.?

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How can I tell how the nock is oriented?

Arrows have 3” straight feather Vanes if that helps

[DRT]

How can I tell how the nock is oriented?



Arrows have 3” straight feather Vanes if that helps

If when it's flying it is tail left or right.
When it sticks in the target are the nock ends left or right.
Bag targets it's hard to tell though.

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[Cenizo]

How can I tell how the nock is oriented?

Arrows have 3” straight feather Vanes if that helps

Three 3" straight fletched vanes is not going to do much of anything to stabilize the arrow flight. Just barely better than shooting a bare shaft. The standard for trad hunters seems to be three 5" feathers/vanes with a helical twist. I shoot four 3" vanes with a helical and it will still show some funky arrow flight if I mess up my release or fail to get to my correct holding position.

I am assuming you are pretty new to this so these recommendations are based on that. For now, while you are just getting used to shooting and the mechanics, you may want to eliminate the variable of arrow tune. To do this install four 5" feathers or vanes with a strong helical twist. The wind will catch this and turn the arrow, but that puppy will be flying completely stabilized within a few yards even with a terrible tune or release. I did this a couple years ago when I had a shoulder injury, had to change my draw mechanics during the middle of hunting season, and couldn't shoot enough to tune a new set of arrows.

[txtrophy85]

If when it's flying it is tail left or right.
When it sticks in the target are the nock ends left or right.
Bag targets it's hard to tell though.

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I'll go shoot here in a bit and tell you. they look to be in the target pretty straight ( 3D deer target ) but I'll pay more attention

[txtrophy85]

Three 3" straight fletched vanes is not going to do much of anything to stabilize the arrow flight. Just barely better than shooting a bare shaft. The standard for trad hunters seems to be three 5" feathers/vanes with a helical twist. I shoot four 3" vanes with a helical and it will still show some funky arrow flight if I mess up my release or fail to get to my correct holding position.

I am assuming you are pretty new to this so these recommendations are based on that. For now, while you are just getting used to shooting and the mechanics, you may want to eliminate the variable of arrow tune. To do this install four 5" feathers or vanes with a strong helical twist. The wind will catch this and turn the arrow, but that puppy will be flying completely stabilized within a few yards even with a terrible tune or release. I did this a couple years ago when I had a shoulder injury, had to change my draw mechanics during the middle of hunting season, and couldn't shoot enough to tune a new set of arrows.

yes, I'm extremely new to Traditional archery.

The arrow goes to the right spot ( when i do my part ) but as soon as I release the arrow fishtails. I was told by a friend of mine the same thing....that the 3" straight vanes are doing pretty much nothing to help the arrow flight. However this is the factory vanes that came with the arrows from Black Eagle.


Should i go ahead and get some arrows fletched up with 5" helical vanes?

[Chew]

If you have a nice smartphone have someone stand over you and film your arrow flight in slow motion mode. It can help diagnose weak/stiff spine.

[Cenizo]

yes, I'm extremely new to Traditional archery.

The arrow goes to the right spot ( when i do my part ) but as soon as I release the arrow fishtails. I was told by a friend of mine the same thing....that the 3" straight vanes are doing pretty much nothing to help the arrow flight. However this is the factory vanes that came with the arrows from Black Eagle.


Should i go ahead and get some arrows fletched up with 5" helical vanes?

If I was setting up a bow for a friend that was starting out (which I will be doing in the next few weeks), then I would put 4x5" feathers on. The reason i would do feathers is because I would only have them shoot this setup for as long as it takes them to get decently consistent on their shot cycle, and feathers are generally cheaper than TradVanes. Once you have a consistent draw cycle, then you get into bare shaft tuning to get ideal arrow flight and decrease the total amount of fletching surface area (helps when windy and with bow/arrow clearance).

I prefer 4x3" TradVanes for two main reasons: 1) 3x4" fletchings are pretty standard but 4x3" gives the same total surface area but with better clearance and you don't have to check on a "cock" feather being the right direction, and 2) TradVanes are dead quiet and moisture resistant.

If you are just getting into traditional archery, then look into Solid Archery Mechanics from The Push Archery and/or start watching Jake Kaminski's form series on YouTube. These will take several years off of the learning curve.

[DRT]

I started with three 4" feathers and it has always been more than enough. With a properly tuned arrow I can shoot my broadheads bareshaft so even the 2" feathers I've used are plenty effective. In my opinion four 5" feathers only adds noise and slows the arrow down. If your set up is that far off that you need that much drag you might rethink it.
But I agree it takes a while to establish a solid enough form and release to bare shaft or paper tune effectively.
That said if you put your numbers into the 3Rivers calculator it will get you close and close is usually good enough to not need excessive drag on the back end of your arrow.

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[txtrophy85]

I started with three 4" feathers and it has always been more than enough. With a properly tuned arrow I can shoot my broadheads bareshaft so even the 2" feathers I've used are plenty effective. In my opinion four 5" feathers only adds noise and slows the arrow down. If your set up is that far off that you need that much drag you might rethink it.
But I agree it takes a while to establish a solid enough form and release to bare shaft or paper tune effectively.
That said if you put your numbers into the 3Rivers calculator it will get you close and close is usually good enough to not need excessive drag on the back end of your arrow.

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I was thinking 3-5” feathers would suffice

[DRT]

I was thinking 3-5” feathers would suffice

The only reason I'm still using 4" is because I don't like the looks of the 2". I can buy 3" at another place but I buy most of my supplies from 3Rivers and the don't sell the 3".

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[txtrophy85]

went to bow shop today.....seems as if the knock point had moved and was too high.

Lowered it and arrow flight improved tremendously and I started putting 4 arrows into a fist sized area at 20 yards.

Gonna stick with this setup for now.