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Old 11-02-2018, 03:45 AM   #1
Hoss163
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Default What to do when a lease member shoots a buck on the no hit list ?

We have a situation a Buck was shot that was on a no hit list but appears to be 5.5 which we said on the Rules bucks 5.5 and older are allowed!! But we had this buck on the no hit list because we thought he could get better next year at 6.5 !!


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Old 11-02-2018, 04:01 AM   #2
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I mean I understand he is 5.5 are older but we had him on the no kill list . I donít want to be that lease manager that changed the rules for one guy what do I do we did talk about this buck maybe going on the list because we thought he was 5.5 but never made that clear with all the members the member made a decision on his own and said he is definitely 5.5 and shot the buck without telling the rest of us .. and other members are mad including myself because they thought he was on the no kill list !!


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Old 11-02-2018, 04:01 AM   #3
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If the rules say 5.5 he followed them.
I have seen many problems arise from not being consistent in lease rules.
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Old 11-02-2018, 04:01 AM   #4
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1. Cancellation of lease
2. If stated in lease, restitution and cancellation of lease

You specifically stated that this buck was not to be harvested. That is a breach of the lease agreement.

Editing after your second post.

Was the buck listed or not listed on a list when the agreement was signed? Or was the buck only talked about being put on the list?

Last edited by Terran28; 11-02-2018 at 04:06 AM.
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Old 11-02-2018, 04:09 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terran28 View Post
1. Cancellation of lease
2. If stated in lease, restitution and cancellation of lease

You specifically stated that this buck was not to be harvested. That is a breach of the lease agreement.

Editing after your second post.

Was the buck listed or not listed on a list when the agreement was signed? Or was the buck only talked about being put on the list?
Was never listed on the kill list!!
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Old 11-02-2018, 04:09 AM   #6
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First, I'd get the members together or at least a firm list of rules and PENALTIES for violating those rules. Second, if you're going to put a buck or animal on a no kill list it needs to be done just prior to season or as soon as the animal is recognized as needing to be on the list and then make sure all members get that list.
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Old 11-02-2018, 04:16 AM   #7
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Well he was never put on the list for sure but the member thought since he was probably 5.5 he was a shooter because 5.5 are older was fair game !! But remember this buck was on the the no kill list because we had pictures of him for the last two years on and off through the season!


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Old 11-02-2018, 04:21 AM   #8
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Default What to do when a lease member shoots a buck on the no hit list ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoss163 View Post
Well he was never put on the list for sure but the member thought since he was probably 5.5 he was a shooter because 5.5 are older was fair game !! But remember this buck was on the the no kill list because we had pictures of him for the last two years on and off through the season!


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You are conflicting yourself in this post. The deer was or was not on the ďno killĒ list. You say it was not officially on the list but then it was put on the list. You cannot have it both ways.


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Old 11-02-2018, 04:24 AM   #9
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[QUOTE=mww982;13752092]You are conflicting yourself in this post. The deer was or was not on the ďno killĒ list. You say it was not officially on the list but then it was put on the list. You cannot have it both ways.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/. He was never put on the list but I agree I thought he was 5.5 and maybe we should put him on the list but never made it clear that he was on the list to all the members!!


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Old 11-02-2018, 04:24 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoss163 View Post
Well he was never put on the list for sure but the member thought since he was probably 5.5 he was a shooter because 5.5 are older was fair game !! But remember this buck was on the the no kill list because we had pictures of him for the last two years on and off through the season!


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This post contradicts itself. The first sentence says he was not on a list, the last sentence says he was. Was or was he not on a list that all members had a copy of?
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Old 11-02-2018, 04:25 AM   #11
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Yeah, I can see the problem.....
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Old 11-02-2018, 04:25 AM   #12
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He never was on the kill list


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Old 11-02-2018, 04:26 AM   #13
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Since the buck was not listed on a list prior to signing the agreement, he shot a buck that was 5.5 years old. Therefore, it will not stand up in court. If you cancel his lease out from under him without him breaking any written rules and a provided list, he has a lawsuit against you if he wishes. The buck has to be listed on the list that every member has a copy of. He made a valid, ethical, no rules broken kill.
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Old 11-02-2018, 04:28 AM   #14
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He was listed on the no kill list before season


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Old 11-02-2018, 04:31 AM   #15
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OK, let me get some clarification. You have a listing of animals that are not to be killed? and was this dear on this list? From what I am reading I see he is AND he is not on a list. Is this list a TO BE KILLED list or a DO NOT KILL list? And do all members have a copy or were notified of where to get the copy?
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Old 11-02-2018, 04:32 AM   #16
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Not to mention the member has shot a buck already this season that was a good buck but was not considered a trophy because we consider a trophy 130 are bigger this buck was 124 and was the biggest buck the member has ever harvested!!


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Old 11-02-2018, 04:34 AM   #17
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The second buck was 140ish but was not on the list ever because we thought he might blow up at 6.5,!!


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Old 11-02-2018, 04:35 AM   #18
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And we agreed that he might blow up at 6.5 so letís let him walk


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Old 11-02-2018, 04:36 AM   #19
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Back button..
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Old 11-02-2018, 04:37 AM   #20
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If you have a list that this buck was on before the season started that stated DO NOT KILL these particular animals and he has a copy of the list or was notified in writing, then the lease can be cancelled legally.
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Old 11-02-2018, 04:39 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terran28 View Post
If you have a list that this buck was on before the season started that stated DO NOT KILL these particular animals and he has a copy of the list or was notified in writing, then the lease can be cancelled legally.


I agree and it is on the no kill list plan and simple!!


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Old 11-02-2018, 04:39 AM   #22
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If the lease member did know and you have proof that he did know that this particular buck was not to be killed then you have the legal right, in my opinion to remove him for the lease. However, if you did not provide the no kill list or a way for this member to know this buck was off limits then you are SOL. He was abiding by the 5.5 year old rule and you know it. Not trying to be harsh but it sounds like you are ticked that he killed this buck but if he was following the rules and you changed the rules it is not fair to the members.

Rules are in place for a reason and you should not change them from year to year. Be consistent with them and put penalties in place if you violate the rules.
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Old 11-02-2018, 04:42 AM   #23
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That is where I was getting confused. So he is on the DO NOT KILL list and it was prior to the season. Does the member have a copy of that DO NOT KILL list? If so, how did he get it? Email, handed to him, a link somewhere? If that buck is on that list, you have to have proof that he got the list, either by paper trail (email, all members got a copy at a meeting, etc.) or its in the Lease Agreement of where to find that information. If you cancel his lease and sues, your lawyer will need to know how exactly he was notified of the list and there has to be proof of how he was notified.
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Old 11-02-2018, 04:43 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mww982 View Post
If the lease member did know and you have proof that he did know that this particular buck was not to be killed then you have the legal right, in my opinion to remove him for the lease. However, if you did not provide the no kill list or a way for this member to know this buck was off limits then you are SOL. He was abiding by the 5.5 year old rule and you know it. Not trying to be harsh but it sounds like you are ticked that he killed this buck but if he was following the rules and you changed the rules it is not fair to the members.

Rules are in place for a reason and you should not change them from year to year. Be consistent with them and put penalties in place if you violate the rules.


No rules are changed I understand where the member is coming from because we said 5.5 are legal to shoot but we had this buck on the no kill list because we were hoping he would blow up at 6.5 ! The guy already has shot a decent buck this year to boot


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Old 11-02-2018, 04:47 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terran28 View Post
That is where I was getting confused. So he is on the DO NOT KILL list and it was prior to the season. Does the member have a copy of that DO NOT KILL list? If so, how did he get it? Email, handed to him, a link somewhere? If that buck is on that list, you have to have proof that he got the list, either by paper trail (email, all members got a copy at a meeting, etc.) or its in the Lease Agreement of where to find that information. If you cancel his lease and sues, your lawyer will need to know how exactly he was notified of the list and there has to be proof of how he was notified.
Through notes that you put on your phone and sent to people
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Old 11-02-2018, 04:48 AM   #26
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And I never said anything about kicking anyone off a lease and going to court now did I ???
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Old 11-02-2018, 04:49 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoss163 View Post
Through notes that you put on your phone and sent to people
As long as you have proof that it was sent to him, cancel his lease. Be prepared to hear from his lawyer. Make no exceptions. Other members will start to do the same.
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Old 11-02-2018, 04:51 AM   #28
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Quote:
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And I never said anything about kicking anyone off a lease and going to court now did I ???
No you did not, however, you did ask what to do. He broke the rules, cancel the lease.
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Old 11-02-2018, 04:52 AM   #29
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The way I look at it, the rules state 5.5 are legal but because you "think" the deer will blow up a year later this was placed on the "no kill" list. In my opinion you need to have all the members vote on it and have the vote recorded. If not, he was following the rules. It sounds like that you are more upset that this lease member has taken 2 decent bucks off the property.

I had a similar situation on the lease I am managing. My rule is 8 point or better and no spikes unless we can tell it is it's second set of antlers. A lease member violated those rules, shot a spike, and lost it. I was ******. I let him finish out the year but he was not allowed back on the lease the next season. Thankfully, he didn't shoot anything else.
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Old 11-02-2018, 05:01 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terran28 View Post
As long as you have proof that it was sent to him, cancel his lease. Be prepared to hear from his lawyer. Make no exceptions. Other members will start to do the same.
Thats what deer hunting has come to, getting lawyers involved, kick his as s off the deer lease, he did it once he will do it again.
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Old 11-02-2018, 05:03 AM   #31
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Well another problem is he never recovered the buck but another lease member caught wind of him shooting the buck ! And was asking since when do we shoot bucks that are not on the No Kill list ! Of course we didnít have a clue what was going on !!


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Old 11-02-2018, 05:07 AM   #32
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He is a problem, kick to the curb.
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Old 11-02-2018, 05:12 AM   #33
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Quote:
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Yeah, I can see the problem.....
yes...I do to....
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Old 11-02-2018, 05:15 AM   #34
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yes...I do to....
How long before this thread is toast?
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Old 11-02-2018, 05:25 AM   #35
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Send him packing. But you should have a set of rules for for violators.On our place you are on probation for 2 years any violations during that time you could be terminated. After that if you shoot a deer on the no shoot wall you loose your trophy for the following year. You can't put a value on the deer because they will just write a check and never learn from there mistakes. It sucks for the following year when they can't shoot a trophy. And what ever rules that you come up with don't bend them at all not even with your closest friends. The rules are the rules
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Old 11-02-2018, 05:53 AM   #36
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Sounds like someone (or several) got butt hurt over another lease member shooting a couple of nice (legal) deer. You're twisting and turning your side of the story, to make it sound like he broke a rule, but if it wasn't in black & white, get over it so you don't make the same mistake next time.

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Old 11-02-2018, 05:56 AM   #37
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You need to have a vote with all lease members on what action to take. Otherwise, one or more members won’t like your decision no matter what it is.

I couldn’t hunt a place with as many convoluted rules as some here......
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Old 11-02-2018, 06:08 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoss163 View Post
He never was on the kill list

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoss163 View Post
He was listed on the no kill list before season

I'm so confused!!!
I bet the other guy is too!!!
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Old 11-02-2018, 06:08 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoss163 View Post
...we did talk about this buck maybe going on the list because we thought he was 5.5 but never made that clear with all the members...

...and other members are mad including myself because they thought he was on the no kill list !!


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Here's your problem... you. It was talked about but never clearly on the list and not made clear with all the members. What you need to do is... If you're the lease manager, YOU need to apologize to the rest of your hunters for not doing your job so they can be mad at the appropriate target....
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Old 11-02-2018, 06:11 AM   #40
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If this thread is any indication there may be a communication problem
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Old 11-02-2018, 06:14 AM   #41
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I am sssssoooooooooooo glad I’m not on a lease like this!!

If one of our guys mess up we talk about it and get past it. It helps that we are all on the same page
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Old 11-02-2018, 06:16 AM   #42
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Picture's or it didn't happen.
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Old 11-02-2018, 06:16 AM   #43
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a lease should be a fun place to hunt and unwind good friend and fellowship
with all the rules and a list of shooters and non shooter just kills it for me
what ever happen to just hunting with good friends what happens if a buck shows
up that has not been seen before might be a buck of a life time but not on kill list
dang hard to let him walk

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Old 11-02-2018, 06:17 AM   #44
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Quote:
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And was asking since when do we shoot bucks that are noton the No Kill list ! Of course we didn’t have a clue what was going on !!


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Lol can’t shoot bucks not on the list? What the hell can you shoot?!
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Old 11-02-2018, 06:17 AM   #45
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Lease drama.... The one thing I do hate about deer hunting. We (me included) have made this tradition way too complicated.
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Old 11-02-2018, 06:18 AM   #46
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What if he would have been 5 and not 5.5? The lease member followed the rules. He/she should not suffer any repurcussions whatsoever. Sounds like the one with the problem is the lease boss. We’re talking about a deer. It’s not a life or death issue. Guy shot a deer he is happy with. Move on. This is silly

Sounds like such a fun place.

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Old 11-02-2018, 06:19 AM   #47
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I can clearly see why there may be some confusion with the rules....
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Old 11-02-2018, 06:20 AM   #48
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just kills it for me
Canít let it do that to you man itís on the no kills kills list
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Old 11-02-2018, 06:24 AM   #49
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Clear as mud...
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Old 11-02-2018, 06:24 AM   #50
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Lease drama.... The one thing I do hate about deer hunting. We (me included) have made this tradition way too complicated.
Agreed ...... I couldn't hunt on this lease
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