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Old 10-30-2018, 10:20 PM   #1
RickBarbee
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I don't mind exposing my flaws.

These are the only 5 shots of the day. I can do better, but was tired, not warmed up, and in a hurry.

I know I'm not perfect.

I also know where I had breakdowns in my form on two of these shots, and knew it when I did it, although even those two weren't to bad I don't think.

Yes, I have some torque in the bow, but the arrow is long gone by the time it happens. There's not much you can do to get rid of it when you have a bow quiver with 7 648gr arrows in it. I can actually balance that out, but don't really like the extra weight, and thing sticking out there to do it.

Critique it, and let me have your honest opinions. I can take it.

https://youtu.be/4NTsDBfOaCo

You may have to go full screen to see it well.

Rick
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Old 10-30-2018, 10:26 PM   #2
RickBarbee
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By the way:

That's a 64" bow & 69# at my 29.5" draw.

Rick
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Old 10-30-2018, 11:55 PM   #3
Draco
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You collapsed a little on the third shot and you moved your bow to the right on the 4th shot. I bet they weren't off by much though.

Question. I've been told several times through the years that I don't have good back tension even though I'm pretty sure I do. They think I don't because my hand doesn't go rearward when I release. Neither does yours. Do you think you can have good back tension with out the hand going rearward upon release? I'm shooting 63# at 26 inches if that would make a difference.
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Old 10-31-2018, 08:00 AM   #4
RickBarbee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draco View Post
You collapsed a little on the third shot and you moved your bow to the right on the 4th shot. I bet they weren't off by much though.

Question. I've been told several times through the years that I don't have good back tension even though I'm pretty sure I do. They think I don't because my hand doesn't go rearward when I release. Neither does yours. Do you think you can have good back tension with out the hand going rearward upon release? I'm shooting 63# at 26 inches if that would make a difference.
I collapsed some on the 3rd & 5th shots. Knew it when I did it. It didn't effect the shots any. Not that would show at 10 yards anyway.

I've had folks tell me the same thing about the back tension,
but I know I have it, and I prefer a static release for a number of reasons.
Howard Hill said - The best release is when both hands do nothing. I agree with that.

Rick
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Old 10-31-2018, 08:53 AM   #5
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I figured folks would be all over this like stink on poop.

Come on now. I know I do some things differently (static release), but that's intentional, and know I did some things wrong.

Knew two of them instantly, and then picked out more after watching the video.

From knowing what I did as I did it, and from watching the video, here's what I see.

Shot #'s 1 & 2 were rock solid. I wasn't thinking about them, I just let my sequence do it's thing, and it paid off.

On shot #3 there was a slight collapse upon release. This was in direct relation to not wanting to wreck arrows, since 1 & 2 were touching. I subconsciously tweaked the shot to keep from hitting the first two arrows. I didn't want to tweak it, but did anyway.

Shot #4 was solid also, but I did a little victory dance with the bow at the end (arrow was long gone), but it made the natural torque of the bow look worse than it is.

On shot #5 I again collapsed on the release, and there was another enhancement of the bow torque. Last shot, ready to be done, thinking about it to much, and again not wanting to wreck arrows.

It's only 10 yards, but I wish I had shown the group after the shots. All in a circle the size of a 50 cent piece, with 1, 2, & 4 basically touching at center, and shot #'s 3 & 5 at the outer edges.

The whole point of this is - once you know you have a good shot sequence & decent form, the worst thing you can do for them is to get all up in your head when doing your thing. Trust it, and it will work. Let other things creep in there to think about, and it won't work, or at least not as well.

Rick
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Old 10-31-2018, 09:06 AM   #6
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This is why, when I am working on form, I normally now days only shoot one arrow, and pull it before shooting the next, or I shoot at different spots on the target. I'm a poor boy, and the thought of wrecking arrows unnerves me. LOL

Rick
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Old 10-31-2018, 09:15 AM   #7
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Side note on static release:

I don't recommend it to anyone.
It works when it works, but is a curse when it don't.
You have to stay on top of it to get & keep it right.

It's something I picked up from watching Howard Hill shoot,
and whether I wanted it to, or not, it stuck.

I can (if I want to) shoot with a good dynamic release, and do well with it, but I generally shoot better with the static "IF" I'm not worrying about it.

Rick
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Old 10-31-2018, 09:19 AM   #8
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I rigged up a side stabilizer, that completely eliminates the quiver induced torque of the bow, but it's heavy, and has to stick out on the off side, which bugs me.

Since the arrow is long gone way before that torque takes place, I can live with the torque.

Rick
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Old 10-31-2018, 11:06 AM   #9
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Video doesn't work for me, Rick. Link goes to YouTube, but shows black snowy screen, saying an Error occurred.
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Old 10-31-2018, 11:13 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tradtiger View Post
Video doesn't work for me, Rick. Link goes to YouTube, but shows black snowy screen, saying an Error occurred.
Don't know why. It's up & working. Just checked.

If you are trying to watch it on a phone, it's likely to small to see anything anyway.

Rick
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Old 10-31-2018, 11:25 AM   #11
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Worked on phone. Went back to computer and clicked on the "more details" to troubleshoot. Apparently, having too many tabs open on computer may not let a video play. Now it works.

As far as critiquing, I don't perceive much wrong. Looks very solid.
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Old 10-31-2018, 12:48 PM   #12
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Rick your worst day of shooting is better than my best so I just watch and learn.

Gary
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Old 10-31-2018, 01:25 PM   #13
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I wasn't trying to point to my shooting as being anything great.
I honestly want/need, and appreciate advice.

The point of this was (actually a couple of points).

(Point #1)
You need to have a good foundation to your shot sequence & form (whatever it may be), and you need to know them well enough to know when you are deviating from them, either as you make the shot, or if viewing a video of your own shooting. Until you can do that, you can't/won't know what to do to improve, and/or fix a problem.

(Point #2)
Once you have that foundation, and "know" you have it, then trust it.

When I start getting all up in my head, and second guessing, and/or worrying about something with the shooting is when my shooting falls apart. Get rid of those things that get in the way of your concentration. Let what you have learned do it for you, because it will if you allow it to.

Rick
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Old 10-31-2018, 10:34 PM   #14
sweetinlow660
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I wish I had a clue what half the words you just said even mean. I am the most seat of the pants no real sequence shooter I’ve ever seen. Or at least I think I am. But that’s probably because the guys that taught me to shoot basically said “see that target? Good. Now shoot it in the middle until you quit missing “

I would love to shoot with some of you more disciplined technical shooters and actually “learn” to shoot.

I watch you shoot rick, and I’m in awe every time of the consistency and accuracy you have.
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Old 11-01-2018, 12:31 AM   #15
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I've always shot with that static release and can't quit unless I think about it. The absolute best 2 shooters I've ever know, Sonny Moore and Jerry Hammack, both shot static releases so it must be OK in my book.
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Old 11-02-2018, 06:43 PM   #16
RickBarbee
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It's been a long while since I used a dynamic release.

This is just 5 cold shots for Coach Arne to evaluate.

I just let it happen, without trying to enhance, or over emphasize it.

Any & All input is welcome.

https://youtu.be/YkO_4Yr50YM

Rick
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Old 11-02-2018, 07:12 PM   #17
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I've never been able to improve my accuracy using a dynamic release, but it's no worse either. It just boils down to "more movement" for me.

I'm a control freak, and the static release makes me feel more in control of the shot, therefore more confident.

Still, the dynamic release will/does work better for most folks, but if you are over bowed (even just a little bit) a static release will eat you alive.

Rick
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Old 11-02-2018, 07:20 PM   #18
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My bow arm collapsed on every shot in this last video..

I normally don't do that, but am tired, plus I was shooting at my broadhead target, which is setting head high. I think the upward angle may have had some to do with it. Who knows, but I was most definitely collapsing.

Rick
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Old 11-03-2018, 10:36 AM   #19
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Could you explain what type of collapse you mean on these dynamic release shots. Do you mean bow arm is moving some at release? It seems to be just recoiling a little when releasing the shot.
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Old 11-03-2018, 11:12 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tradtiger View Post
Could you explain what type of collapse you mean on these dynamic release shots. Do you mean bow arm is moving some at release? It seems to be just recoiling a little when releasing the shot.
It is only a slight collapse, which looks worse than it is due to the quiver induced torque of the bow.

It's more of a thing I feel, than see, although the video did confirm that feeling for me.

Upon conclusion of the shot, the bow should preferably go forward due to the apposing forces, or at the very least not ever move backward. If it moves backward you have collapsed, and that is generally due to a loss of back tension.

If you watch the first video with using the static release, you'll notice even though my bow is rocking right, my bow arm is staying fully extended.

When shooting the dynamic release, I'm not used to it, so trying to do it right causes me to relax when I should not. Couple that with being tired, and I was getting a little collapse. Nothing serious, and simply a matter of practicing to the point of being used to the dynamic release to rid myself of it.

That said - I like my static release, because I'm a control freak, so I'll likely stick with it, even if it isn't textbook correct. - Which is back to the point of all of this - Find what works for you, know why it works, and you then have a solid foundation to work with, especially to work with toward improvement if you're of a mind to do so.

Rick
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Old 11-03-2018, 03:39 PM   #21
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Thanks, Rick. I believe I understand what you mean. I would imagine that your heavy bow requires you to "brace" your muscles fairly specifically to be steady at the moment of release.

Sent from my SM-J327V using Tapatalk
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Old 11-04-2018, 12:38 AM   #22
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Collapsing is a sure sign of shooting while tired. Extreme cases is when your shoulder goes forward just a bit as the bow hand comes back and to the left a tad. I usually shoot low but in line when I do it.
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