KE arrow experts

[Mudslinger]

I am going to add that the shaft diameter has little effect UNLESS it is going thru bone and the drag on a side wind. Going thru muscle, the lubrication from the fluids and blood should diminish the drag on a bigger diameter shaft.

Lots of great info given. I agree with most that this close to the season, go with what you are comfortable with and place the shot where it needs to go.

I have always said, if you are confident in your equipment and your use of that equipment and are confident and able to place the shot where it needs to go, all you are asking for is an opportunity for the shot. If you are not confident in your ability or your equipment, if the shot presents itself, are you going to be thinking, can I make this shot as opposed to please give me the shot?

Good luck on your hunt and looking forward to some stories and pics!

[crc]

400 grains is a light arrow to be hunting elk with

[Sackett]

Richard, don’t worry about all the numbers. With your setup, you will efficiently kill an elk if you make a good shot. Have fun and enjoy the hunt without all the algebra, physics and bs getting in the way

[Tom]

Richard, don’t worry about all the numbers. With your setup, you will efficiently kill an elk if you make a good shot. Have fun and enjoy the hunt without all the algebra, physics and bs getting in the way

agree with this. Make the shot. You bow hunt to get close and if the shot is far and the elk has no clue you are there it is like hitting a target.

[DrBob]

Took a class at the SCI meeting in Vegas about 6 or so years ago. Came home and changed my entire setup. It has been incredible. I am a believer. Went to Africa
Complete passthroughs on large Wildebeest and Gemsbok.
Went to Wyoming Killed a buck pronghorn......and the doe standing behind him! Pass through both!

https://www.ashbybowhunting.org/12-arrow-penetration-factors

[txtrophy85]

Took a class at the SCI meeting in Vegas about 6 or so years ago. Came home and changed my entire setup. It has been incredible. I am a believer. Went to Africa
Complete passthroughs on large Wildebeest and Gemsbok.
Went to Wyoming Killed a buck pronghorn......and the doe standing behind him! Pass through both!
https://www.ashbybowhunting.org/12-a...ration-factors

Was your prior set up lacking? Did you have problems with penetration prior to changing?


I'm not arguing that a heavy arrow with heavy broadheads are effective. Especially for heavy African game like Eland and Cape Buffalo.

but I cannot get behind the Ed Ashby ideal for deer sized or even elk sized game as being absolute or necessary for success. Too many animals have died from mid weight arrows and 100 grain broadheads for this to hold water. When I first started bowhunting I was getting pass thru's on everything I shot with a 390 grain arrow shot at 276 fps with an over the top expandable broadhead. I killed a pronghorn at 84 yards with a 2" rocket sidewinder and it blew right thru him.

Don't get me started on Ranch Fairy....

[rtp]

Went out and shot at 60,74&90. Not sure which one is which but I was happy with all of them.


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[Landrover]

https://www.realtree.com/kinetic-ene...tum-calculator

I plugged in your stats and theyre not a believer of your setup and game larger than whitetail.

I think momentum and slugs is a more pertinent measure than KE especially at your desired distances.

Good luck MrRTP.

yep, momenteum is the primary concern when slinging arrows at an animal.

The FOC is an important factor in penetration. I am a firm believer in good momentum and higher than normal FOC.

The next factor I would look at is what BH are you going to use? COC would be the best choice followed by a hybrid or fixed but I do not think a mechanical would or should be used. Just my opinion.

As far as distances, as close as possible and use the longer, over 40 maybe 50 yards as possible follow up shots.

Remember also, Elk have about a 16"x16" kill zone!

Agreed Doug! Momentum and FOC and cut on contact.

Took a class at the SCI meeting in Vegas about 6 or so years ago. Came home and changed my entire setup. It has been incredible. I am a believer. Went to Africa
Complete passthroughs on large Wildebeest and Gemsbok.
Went to Wyoming Killed a buck pronghorn......and the doe standing behind him! Pass through both!
https://www.ashbybowhunting.org/12-a...ration-factors

Ditto sir! 8 years using the total arrow system and 5 continents.........i dont have any complaints ..........nor do the animals on my walls.

Was your prior set up lacking? Did you have problems with penetration prior to changing?


I'm not arguing that a heavy arrow with heavy broadheads are effective. Especially for heavy African game like Eland and Cape Buffalo.

but I cannot get behind the Ed Ashby ideal for deer sized or even elk sized game as being absolute or necessary for success. Too many animals have died from mid weight arrows and 100 grain broadheads for this to hold water. When I first started bowhunting I was getting pass thru's on everything I shot with a 390 grain arrow shot at 276 fps with an over the top expandable broadhead. I killed a pronghorn at 84 yards with a 2" rocket sidewinder and it blew right thru him.

Don't get me started on Ranch Fairy....

That is NO WHERE stated in the ASHBY papers! It is not an absolute. 650 is a guideline. You can pick any of the 12 components and use what works for you as a bowhunter.

[175gr7.62]

I have killed 4 elk with a bow. The first was with a XX75 2213 pushing a 125gr Thunderhead. I have no idea what it weighed. The last was with a 420gr ACC 360 pushing a SlickTrick Magnum 100 at 53 yards. I have had to look for my arrow on the other side on all 4 of them.

A big heavy COC setup is going to penetrate better. That is just physics. Elk are not Abrams tanks though. I have killed several hundred hogs and 152 deer with a bow. I have never had a penetration issue, even on big old stank nasty boars.

I am not knocking the Ranch Fairy or Dr. Ashby. The Ranch Fairy has developed a business model that pushes big heavy arrows. Good for him. I personally don't care how deep my arrow is in the ground on the other side. You aren't sacrificing anything shooting them besides trajectory and with laser rangefinders that really isn't a big deal.

That being said, don't fall into the trap of needing to buy the latest greatest bing bang gizmos out there to kill stuff. Even the newest flagship bow doesn't shoot any faster than a 20yr old bow. A deer/elk/hog can't tell what year model bow it was shot with. 400gr at 290fps is the same out of a Switchback XT or a VX3.

I will admit that I even get caught up in it. I was looking at fancy aftermarket chokes for duck hunting today...even though I have never had a problem killing limits of ducks with factory choke tubes. I watched a Youtube video though.....

A 400gr arrow at 260-290 fps with a quality sharp broadhead will kill anything. If I was going to Africa to hunt the big boys, I would definitely put together some heavy sticks. After all, prepping is just as much fun as the actual hunt. Shooting Lower 48 critters, just save your money and keep it simple. The money you spend on those Iron Wills and FOC collars will buy a new target to replace the one you wear out practicing with your current equipment.

[txtrophy85]

I have killed 4 elk with a bow. The first was with a XX75 2213 pushing a 125gr Thunderhead. I have no idea what it weighed. The last was with a 420gr ACC 360 pushing a SlickTrick Magnum 100 at 53 yards. I have had to look for my arrow on the other side on all 4 of them.

A big heavy COC setup is going to penetrate better. That is just physics. Elk are not Abrams tanks though. I have killed several hundred hogs and 152 deer with a bow. I have never had a penetration issue, even on big old stank nasty boars.

I am not knocking the Ranch Fairy or Dr. Ashby. The Ranch Fairy has developed a business model that pushes big heavy arrows. Good for him. I personally don't care how deep my arrow is in the ground on the other side. You aren't sacrificing anything shooting them besides trajectory and with laser rangefinders that really isn't a big deal.

That being said, don't fall into the trap of needing to buy the latest greatest bing bang gizmos out there to kill stuff. Even the newest flagship bow doesn't shoot any faster than a 20yr old bow. A deer/elk/hog can't tell what year model bow it was shot with. 400gr at 290fps is the same out of a Switchback XT or a VX3.

I will admit that I even get caught up in it. I was looking at fancy aftermarket chokes for duck hunting today...even though I have never had a problem killing limits of ducks with factory choke tubes. I watched a Youtube video though.....

A 400gr arrow at 260-290 fps with a quality sharp broadhead will kill anything. If I was going to Africa to hunt the big boys, I would definitely put together some heavy sticks. After all, prepping is just as much fun as the actual hunt. Shooting Lower 48 critters, just save your money and keep it simple. The money you spend on those Iron Wills and FOC collars will buy a new target to replace the one you wear out practicing with your current equipment.

very well said

[Mudslinger]

I have killed 4 elk with a bow. The first was with a XX75 2213 pushing a 125gr Thunderhead. I have no idea what it weighed. The last was with a 420gr ACC 360 pushing a SlickTrick Magnum 100 at 53 yards. I have had to look for my arrow on the other side on all 4 of them.

A big heavy COC setup is going to penetrate better. That is just physics. Elk are not Abrams tanks though. I have killed several hundred hogs and 152 deer with a bow. I have never had a penetration issue, even on big old stank nasty boars.

I am not knocking the Ranch Fairy or Dr. Ashby. The Ranch Fairy has developed a business model that pushes big heavy arrows. Good for him. I personally don't care how deep my arrow is in the ground on the other side. You aren't sacrificing anything shooting them besides trajectory and with laser rangefinders that really isn't a big deal.


That being said, don't fall into the trap of needing to buy the latest greatest bing bang gizmos out there to kill stuff. Even the newest flagship bow doesn't shoot any faster than a 20yr old bow. A deer/elk/hog can't tell what year model bow it was shot with. 400gr at 290fps is the same out of a Switchback XT or a VX3.

I will admit that I even get caught up in it. I was looking at fancy aftermarket chokes for duck hunting today...even though I have never had a problem killing limits of ducks with factory choke tubes. I watched a Youtube video though.....

A 400gr arrow at 260-290 fps with a quality sharp broadhead will kill anything. If I was going to Africa to hunt the big boys, I would definitely put together some heavy sticks. After all, prepping is just as much fun as the actual hunt. Shooting Lower 48 critters, just save your money and keep it simple. The money you spend on those Iron Wills and FOC collars will buy a new target to replace the one you wear out practicing with your current equipment.

It would be fun to see how many elk were killed with 22" to 24" overdraw short light arrows. I know I killed a couple! Some of you may not even know what an overdraw is or was! Babies!

[Pernell]

I wouldn't worry with your setup at 70 yards.

This is correct, stay off the shoulder and you can kill him easy at 70 yds. Elk die quick when you take out both lungs.

[175gr7.62]

KE arrow experts

It would be fun to see how many elk were killed with 22" to 24" overdraw short light arrows. I know I killed a couple! Some of you may not even know what an overdraw is or was! Babies!

Exactly what I killed my first one with in 1992. PSE Mach 6, 3” overdraw, 4” helical feathers on JD 2213’s pushing Thunderhead 125s. Shot all the way thru a 5x5 at 39yds and buried in an aspen. He walked 20yds and fell over. Had to cut the tree down to get my arrow out.

Had no idea what FOC or single bevel was back them.


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[Mudslinger]

Exactly what I killed my first one with in 1992. PSE Mach 6, 3” overdraw, 4” helical feathers on JD 2213’s pushing Thunderhead 125s. Shot all the way thru a 5x5 at 39yds and buried in an aspen. He walked 20yds and fell over. Had to cut the tree down to get my arrow out.

Had no idea what FOC or single bevel was back them.


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No one back in those days knew what FOC or momentum was. Just get as short and light as arrow as possible and go for it! Our bows sounded like an 30.06 going off!

[175gr7.62]

No one back in those days knew what FOC or momentum was. Just get as short and light as arrow as possible and go for it! Our bows sounded like an 30.06 going off!

….and critters died.


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