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Old 04-30-2021, 07:12 PM   #1
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Default Concealed Carry and Dog Poop...

Maybe Iím wrong, but it is my understanding that when carrying concealed, I cannot confront other humans? Is confronting someone for letting their dog drop a giant steaming pile of poo at an athletic park where 9 years old are playing organized flag football illegal?

Last weekend right before the games started, a dude let his dog drop a deuce where familyís were about to gather. I kept my mouth shut because I was carrying...still mad about not saying anything.
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Old 04-30-2021, 07:22 PM   #2
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Maybe Iím wrong, but it is my understanding that when carrying concealed, I cannot confront other humans?
What? Why would that be the case?
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Old 04-30-2021, 07:22 PM   #3
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Where did you hear that?
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Old 04-30-2021, 07:25 PM   #4
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Where did you hear that?
It has always been my understanding that I could not create a confrontation or escalate a situation. If I’m wrong, I’d be happily wrong.
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Old 04-30-2021, 07:28 PM   #5
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Maybe Iím wrong, but it is my understanding that when carrying concealed, I cannot confront other humans? Is confronting someone for letting their dog drop a giant steaming pile of poo at an athletic park where 9 years old are playing organized flag football illegal?

Last weekend right before the games started, a dude let his dog drop a deuce where familyís were about to gather. I kept my mouth shut because I was carrying...still mad about not saying anything.
Just because your carrying doesnít mean you canít tell anyone anything. If your going to get into a fight with someone letting a dog go to the bathroom and not pick it up you got bigger issues.
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Old 04-30-2021, 07:28 PM   #6
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What's the point in carrying then. You go tell that man to pick up his dogs ****aki....while slowly tapping the butt of your G19. ****aki is gonna happen.
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Old 04-30-2021, 07:34 PM   #7
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I'd have to at least confront someone before I shot them. How else would they know why I shot them in the first place?
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Old 04-30-2021, 07:54 PM   #8
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You can confront. Can't pull your pistol over dog woo-woo though. How would anyone know if you don't draw? If you draw your weapon over dog mess, I'm not sure you should be carrying.

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Old 04-30-2021, 08:02 PM   #9
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What if he was packing as well and y’all ended up in a shootout over dog shat. There’s that.
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Old 04-30-2021, 08:04 PM   #10
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What if he was packing as well and yíall ended up in a shootout over dog shat. Thereís that.
Which is why I didnít say anything. Iím not going to start a confrontation and shoot someone over dog poop.
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Old 04-30-2021, 08:36 PM   #11
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https://youtu.be/58sP8azcHfQ
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Old 04-30-2021, 08:39 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Shinesintx View Post
Maybe Iím wrong, but it is my understanding that when carrying concealed, I cannot confront other humans? Is confronting someone for letting their dog drop a giant steaming pile of poo at an athletic park where 9 years old are playing organized flag football illegal?

Last weekend right before the games started, a dude let his dog drop a deuce where familyís were about to gather. I kept my mouth shut because I was carrying...still mad about not saying anything.
Are you thinking if you say something and the guy go nuts, and you end up shooting him the law will go against you? I can see that happening in todays world.
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Old 04-30-2021, 09:18 PM   #13
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You can still whup his arse. You just can't shoot him!
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Old 04-30-2021, 09:21 PM   #14
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You can still whup his arse. You just can't shoot him!
Unfortunately when most people think self defense their first thought is deadly force. They may go to the range and shoot their gun but few will take any training in hand to hand self defense. Most have never been punched in the face.

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Old 04-30-2021, 09:24 PM   #15
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We were told in our concealed class, that if you are in any type of physical fight, weather a weapon is drawn or not. And the cops show up, you will lose your right to carry.
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Old 04-30-2021, 09:39 PM   #16
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Are you thinking if you say something and the guy go nuts, and you end up shooting him the law will go against you? I can see that happening in todays world.
You can't start something and expect to claim self defense.
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Old 04-30-2021, 09:49 PM   #17
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You can't start something and expect to claim self defense.
Zimmerman disagrees.
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Old 04-30-2021, 09:55 PM   #18
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Default Concealed Carry and Dog Poop...

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Originally Posted by Burnadell View Post
You can still whup his arse. You just can't shoot him!


If it goes physical you best be sure you can handle it physically or take the beating because your justified use of deadly force just went out the window!
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Old 04-30-2021, 10:02 PM   #19
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Zimmerman disagrees.
Zimmerman only called 911. I donít think that negates self-defenseÖ
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Old 04-30-2021, 10:12 PM   #20
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Zimmerman only called 911. I donít think that negates self-defenseÖ
I forgot Treyvon drug him out of the car unprovoked.....
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Old 04-30-2021, 10:23 PM   #21
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If it goes physical you best be sure you can handle it physically or take the beating because your justified use of deadly force just went out the window!


I think this is the correct mentality.


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Old 04-30-2021, 10:59 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by critter69 View Post
We were told in our concealed class, that if you are in any type of physical fight, weather a weapon is drawn or not. And the cops show up, you will lose your right to carry.
Under what law?
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Old 04-30-2021, 11:01 PM   #23
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If it goes physical you best be sure you can handle it physically or take the beating because your justified use of deadly force just went out the window!
So you're saying if you say "hey dude, pick up your dog's crap" then he begins beating you w/a bat deadly force is out the window?
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Old 05-01-2021, 03:51 AM   #24
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So you're saying if you say "hey dude, pick up your dog's crap" then he begins beating you w/a bat deadly force is out the window?
kinda depends on how you say it. if you make a polite request maybe not. if you jump in his face and demand he pick it or else, probably. However, if a bat comes out, I'll take my chances also.

BTW this day and time, there is a lot of different circumstances. You pay your money and take your chances. Who knows what a jury might do this day and age.

Last edited by hpdrifter; 05-01-2021 at 04:30 AM.
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Old 05-01-2021, 05:34 AM   #25
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So you're saying if you say "hey dude, pick up your dog's crap" then he begins beating you w/a bat deadly force is out the window?
No. I think heís saying you canít start fighting with someone (hand to hand) and then all the sudden decide to draw down and shoot him
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Old 05-01-2021, 06:21 AM   #26
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I do Love this Archery site......LOL
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Old 05-01-2021, 06:38 AM   #27
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So you're saying if you say "hey dude, pick up your dog's crap" then he begins beating you w/a bat deadly force is out the window?
Quote:
Originally Posted by hpdrifter View Post
kinda depends on how you say it. if you make a polite request maybe not. if you jump in his face and demand he pick it or else, probably. However, if a bat comes out, I'll take my chances also.

BTW this day and time, there is a lot of different circumstances. You pay your money and take your chances. Who knows what a jury might do this day and age.
Does it matter how you say it? Unless it's recorded or others hear it the big mean gun owners word against the other guy (unless he's dead). I think we know how it would be twisted.
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Old 05-01-2021, 07:11 AM   #28
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Maybe I think a little different... why not ask him politely and if he refuses and you donít want your family to sit in dog poo pick it up yourself. Really no reason to fight, argue, or have any issue with something so minor. Some people are not very considerate of others and no reason to let his shortcomings upset you so much.


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Old 05-01-2021, 07:13 AM   #29
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Under what law?
Not sure, but would like to find out. Why don’t you “test “ the the water and tell us how it goes. Sounds like your pretty sure, then all the questions could be answered. It would have been the op approaching the guy who’s dog pooped, there for it would be looked upon as he started the conflict for one thing, he would be the aggressor. The best way would have to just say, hey man there’s going to be people playing here, think you could pick they up. Then keep walking, if the guy didn’t pick it up and he’s worried about it, he could circle back and pick it up himself. But to keep a distance and keep walking would be huge. Rather then approach the guy with the dog.

Last edited by critter69; 05-01-2021 at 07:21 AM.
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Old 05-01-2021, 09:23 AM   #30
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We were told in our concealed class, that if you are in any type of physical fight, weather a weapon is drawn or not. And the cops show up, you will lose your right to carry.
That is not true. You have the right to defend yourself no matter what. If i'm carrying my weapon concealed, a person walks up and hits me in the face, I have the right to defend myself with my fist or my weapon. Please reread the laws people. If you walk up and hit someone in the face, provoked or unprovoked, you are looking at a felony assault, you would then possibly lose your right to conceal carry.
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Old 05-01-2021, 09:26 AM   #31
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Does it matter how you say it? Unless it's recorded or others hear it the big mean gun owners word against the other guy (unless he's dead). I think we know how it would be twisted.
I said "maybe" and finished with a question on how a jury would decide in today's climate.
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Old 05-01-2021, 09:35 AM   #32
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https://youtu.be/58sP8azcHfQ
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Perfect!

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Old 05-01-2021, 09:54 AM   #33
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That is not true. You have the right to defend yourself no matter what. If i'm carrying my weapon concealed, a person walks up and hits me in the face, I have the right to defend myself with my fist or my weapon. Please reread the laws people. If you walk up and hit someone in the face, provoked or unprovoked, you are looking at a felony assault, you would then possibly lose your right to conceal carry.
A victim cannot instantly pull a gun and shoot an attacker who raises a fist or slaps or punches the victim without trying another way of fending off the attack, because that would be more force than was reasonably necessary. This is from a lawyer.
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Old 05-01-2021, 11:28 AM   #34
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A victim cannot instantly pull a gun and shoot an attacker who raises a fist or slaps or punches the victim without trying another way of fending off the attack, because that would be more force than was reasonably necessary. This is from a lawyer.
Again, not true. From a very well known attorney, key words, if you feel for your life, you have the right to protect yourself in any fashion. Proven in a court of law.

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Old 05-01-2021, 01:28 PM   #35
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Something is amiss if a minor public decency infraction starts thoughts of deadly force.
Even if you werenít carrying are you going to get in a physical altercation with someone in front of families because you canít control yourself. Whoís setting the worse example in that scenario?
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Old 05-01-2021, 02:23 PM   #36
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So you're saying if you say "hey dude, pick up your dog's crap" then he begins beating you w/a bat deadly force is out the window?


No, but if you start a fight with the Dude over the dog poop and then start to get your butt whipped so you resort to your gun the yes, self defense is out the window.
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Old 05-01-2021, 02:34 PM   #37
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Again, not true. From a very well known attorney, key words, if you feel for your life, you have the right to protect yourself in any fashion. Proven in a court of law.

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You feel your life is threatened if some one punches you ! Seriously, I am all for protecting ones self but dude your the problem with society today. Someone insults you, or punches you, your afraid to punch them back ? So just shoot um. I would like to see you also try what you have suggested here and see what happens in court. If your so **** sure, why not, your not going to be out anything ? If fact I would love to sit on the jury !

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Old 05-01-2021, 02:38 PM   #38
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No, but if you start a fight with the Dude over the dog poop and then start to get your butt whipped so you resort to your gun the yes, self defense is out the window.
I donít think so..... didnít George Zimmerman harass travon to the point travon decided to kick his rear end before George shot him?
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Old 05-01-2021, 02:48 PM   #39
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No, but if you start a fight with the Dude over the dog poop and then start to get your butt whipped so you resort to your gun the yes, self defense is out the window.
I think that is probably correct for the most part or at least the way a jury might see it depending on circumstances.

If you are the instigator in a fight you could still claim self-defense in court and likely a jury will determine if it was truly self-defense. There is always the what ifs.

For example what if you instigated a fist fight. The other guy without justification pulls out a knife and tries to stab you. Just the fact that you wanted to fist fight doesnít necessarily negate your right of self defense against a knife. Was the other personĎs use of force of a knife against your fists reasonable? If not then I would think a jury might see you have the right of self-defense by using deadly force. I saw plenty of fights when I was in school. If they were just duking it out and one guy pulls a knife, does the other guy lose his right of self defense against an unlawful deadly force simply because he wanted to fight?

Remember the law self-defense says the state has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you had no right to use it.

That is why I think that you might be possibly correct that if you start a fight it will look unfavorably on you but there is no law that says you lose the right of self-defense.
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Old 05-01-2021, 02:51 PM   #40
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Op never once said the guy had a baseball bat ! They were going to play flag football, so I don’t see were a bat would even come from. Keep your distance, ask politely, and keep walking. That way if he pursues you, what ever happens, will only help your case. But if it turns into a fist fight and you lose, go your marry way, you are not in a life threatening situation unless he pulls or threatens you with a weapon. Even then keep trying to go on your way and let him pursue you. You won’t win in court, if your not in fear of your life, (as in he has pulled some sort of weapon) , a regular old *** whooping, its not justifiable cause. It’s a poor excuse of a man, that thinks they can resort to their weapons for any reason what so ever. It’s what is eating away at our second amendment right now. Then you have morons on here thinking they can shoot someone for any reason that might hurt their feelings. We are in a world of hurt as a country right now, and even some of the things here prove it, society is going to “ poop”. It’s easier to shoot a guy, then punch a guy, and risk getting punched back, friken crazy !

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Old 05-01-2021, 02:52 PM   #41
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I donít think so..... didnít George Zimmerman harass travon to the point travon decided to kick his rear end before George shot him?
There was no evidence presented Zimmerman had any contact with Martin until Martin attacked him, probably from ambush.

No matter, it goes by the laws of FL and not Texas.

The claims of Zimmerman harassing or chasing Martin down was speculation. The only real evidence is the 911 call and that appears to show that Zimmerman did not chase Martin down (which I think would have been nearly impossible).
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Old 05-01-2021, 03:14 PM   #42
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This place is something else, sometimes, ain't it...
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Old 05-01-2021, 03:21 PM   #43
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I think that is probably correct for the most part or at least the way a jury might see it depending on circumstances.



If you are the instigator in a fight you could still claim self-defense in court and likely a jury will determine if it was truly self-defense. There is always the what ifs.



For example what if you instigated a fist fight. The other guy without justification pulls out a knife and tries to stab you. Just the fact that you wanted to fist fight doesnít necessarily negate your right of self defense against a knife. Was the other personĎs use of force of a knife against your fists reasonable? If not then I would think a jury might see you have the right of self-defense by using deadly force. I saw plenty of fights when I was in school. If they were just duking it out and one guy pulls a knife, does the other guy lose his right of self defense against an unlawful deadly force simply because he wanted to fight?



Remember the law self-defense says the state has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you had no right to use it.



That is why I think that you might be possibly correct that if you start a fight it will look unfavorably on you but there is no law that says you lose the right of self-defense.


Agree

Mine was a general statement but you could throw 100ís of plot twist at it that that statement wrong.
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Old 05-01-2021, 06:20 PM   #44
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Of course you can’t shoot someone because they’re kicking your tail in a fistfight you instigated. On the other hand, you don’t lose the option to use a gun, if your life is truly threatened, because you said the first words.
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Old 05-01-2021, 06:30 PM   #45
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Op never once said the guy had a baseball bat ! They were going to play flag football, so I donít see were a bat would even come from. Keep your distance, ask politely, and keep walking. That way if he pursues you, what ever happens, will only help your case. But if it turns into a fist fight and you lose, go your marry way, you are not in a life threatening situation unless he pulls or threatens you with a weapon. Even then keep trying to go on your way and let him pursue you. You wonít win in court, if your not in fear of your life, (as in he has pulled some sort of weapon) , a regular old *** whooping, its not justifiable cause. Itís a poor excuse of a man, that thinks they can resort to their weapons for any reason what so ever. Itís what is eating away at our second amendment right now. Then you have morons on here thinking they can shoot someone for any reason that might hurt their feelings. We are in a world of hurt as a country right now, and even some of the things here prove it, society is going to ď poopĒ. Itís easier to shoot a guy, then punch a guy, and risk getting punched back, friken crazy !
You need to check your stupidity at the door bro, you are blowing smoke and you know it. Scared of a fist fight, he'll no. I have fought in the cage and even at 50, ready to roll. I'm saying point blank, I ask someone to pick up some dog **** and then he wants to rumble , let's do it. As long as he throws the first punch, self defense is still in effect, even with my fists. He escalates it to a knife or gun, then fun is over. There are a lot of stupid people in the world and you are proving it. Any time you would like to meet up for a coffee or beer and discuss it like adults, I'm game.

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Old 05-01-2021, 06:42 PM   #46
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I think TBH ďlawyersĒ are the worst lawyers on Godís green earth!



Not the real ones, just the stand-ins.


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Old 05-01-2021, 06:44 PM   #47
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You need to check your stupidity at the door bro, you are blowing smoke and you know it. Scared of a fist fight, he'll no. I have fought in the cage and even at 50, ready to roll. I'm saying point blank, I ask someone to pick up some dog **** and then he wants to rumble , let's do it. As long as he throws the first punch, self defense is still in effect, even with my fists. He escalates it to a knife or gun, then fun is over. There are a lot of stupid people in the world and you are proving it. Any time you would like to meet up for a coffee or beer and discuss it like adults, I'm game.

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You lost me at ďas long as he throws the first punchĒ. Thatís a suckers bet.


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Old 05-01-2021, 06:47 PM   #48
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Iíll add.....the weak-*** kids everyone is raising could use some being tackled into dog ****. Who hasnít played a game of yard ball and ended up with dog **** on them. Candy-asses....thatís who!


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Old 05-01-2021, 07:00 PM   #49
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This place is something else, sometimes, ain't it...



Its an entertaining episode of a cross between Matlock and Night Court with a splash of Archie Bunker every day...
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Old 05-01-2021, 07:17 PM   #50
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You lost me at ďas long as he throws the first punchĒ. Thatís a suckers bet.


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Instigation is one thing, punching someone over dog **** is another. I personally wouldn't do it, but hypothetical says I say hey bud could you pick up your dogs poop, he loses his self and attacks, we have a good ole fist fight. I have the right to defend myself (fists) and not worry about getting hit with felony assault. 2nd side of it, I tell him to pick it up, he gets mouthy, i punch him in the face, good chance I'm going to jail. That's all I was saying earlier! In the first scenario, a fist fight becomes a knife fight on his part and he is trying to kill me, I am now justified in protecting myself, even with deadly force.

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