This is the idiocy we have to deal with on the TP&W commision

[justletmein]

Being proactive is pretty valuable when considering how long it takes these fish to get to "trophy" size, if you're not proactive it could take 60 years of reactive management to recover.

[Hot4huntin]

That was 9 years ago... and 9 years ago the regulation stayed the same. Even at that time it was considered "right on the edge of where it would problematic". Granted this data is only representative of 6 tournaments over two years, so not exactly a full study of the impact on the fishery as a whole.

This is also not a black and white issue. The new regulations are not ending The ability to bowhunt alligator gar, just limiting the take of alligator gar. The first sentence that you bolded says "limited harvest...did not cause population growth rates to decline substantially." I believe you've probably done more research than me on the topic, but to me it appears the regulations are following pretty closely to what the data suggests.

This was right after TPWD implemented the one gar a day regulation. There was already a sustainable population at that time.

TPWD Commission
Work Session January, 2018

COMMISSIONER: Yeah. My question is: What's the distribution of these 80 year-old, 180-pound, 200-pound gars? I mean, are they--can they withstand the pressure that we're putting on them? I don't know the answer, but I'm looking to you--

KURZAWSKI: Yeah, We've--you know, as I said, we've been looking--certainly, the--you know, the Trinity River, the Middle Trinity specifically, we've done extensive work on that. You know, looked at exploitation rates of the population; looked at, you know, the size of the fish being harvested. And those exploitation rates the last time we looked, were within the range that we feel is sustaining the population.

We've been fortunate over the last couple of years to have good spawns in the river with some of the high water. And, you know, right now the way we look--what we see, the population is hold--it's certainly holding its own.

TPWDCommission
Work Session, March 21, 2018
Craig Bonds

BONDS: Texas is unique among the 50 states in that it presently has the best remaining Alligator gar population in the world. That, in turn, provides fishing opportunities for one of the largest freshwater fishes on the globe. ...Our gar populations are highly significant from not only an ecological standpoint, but are also economically important. Guides benefit from taking person using rod and reels and bows out to pursue Alligator gar.

The good news is that our Alligator gar populations appear to be in relatively good shape.

Since implementation of the one fish per day bag limit, we've estimated harvest in both the Trinity and the Brazos Rivers, as well as Choke Canyon Reservoir between the years of 2008 and 2013. After accounting for likely levels of non-reporting, we've estimated that exploitation ranges between 2 and 4 percent of the population annually. And I want to explain a little bit about how we've derived those estimates because it is fairly important.

Those exploitation estimates are typically derived through a tag and reporting type study. And what we did, is we tagged a number of Alligator gar in these systems; and then as those reported harvests come into us, then we can estimate what exploitation is. But the scientific literature is replete with these types of exploitation studies and one important factor is: How many are not reported that are caught and harvested?

And so that can be actually measured or you can use assumptions based on the reported literature. And how we did it, is we combed through the literature and we used a fairly liberal assumption of non-reporting. Specific to the Trinity River estimate, we used a 50 percent non-reporting rate; and then for the Choke Canyon estimate, we modeled various different non-reporting rates of anywhere from 20 to 80 percent. So I just want to make that fairly clear; and also, I want the Commission to understand that these estimates have been published in peer-reviewed scientific literature.

Based on our population modeling of those estimates, the level of harvest should be sustainable; but to prevent a substantial reduction in large gar, harvest should not exceed 5 percent annually. That's pretty important. In the Trinity, population continues to offer opportunities to take very large fish based on anecdotal information from guides that we regularly communicate with; and sampling in the Lower Trinity River below Lake Livingston as recently as 2015 as part of a separate study, revealed a robust size and age structure, which was not indicative of a population that was experiencing excessive exploitation in that area.

Under no length limits, which is our current regulation, and at 3 percent modeled annual harvest, we see that the population is stable. And as a reminder, we've estimated that 3 percent annual harvest reflects what we believe is the current status of the Trinity River population. But as we model harvest at 5 percent across all size classes, the population does decline; but it is still considered sustainable.

COMMISSIONER: Yeah, Because it's just not sustainable. I mean, I don't need too many studies to -- common sense will tell you it's not going to -- we're the only state left, I believe, that have these big fish. Is that not true?

BONDS: That's an accurate statement, especially at the abundance that we have them. There's certainly large, very large Alligator gar in other states; but I think Texas is truly the stronghold for big fish.


COMMISSIONER: So catch and release is not a problem, but -- and I don't want to get off on the bow hunting, but that really is the area that is of the most concern to me. So some sort of permit system where you can only shoot one a year? I don't know what it is.

[Hot4huntin]

Trinity River: Enact a 48-inch maximum length limit for alligator gar on the Trinity River from the I-30 bridge in Dallas downstream to the I-10 bridge in Chambers County, including the East Fork of the Trinity River upstream to the dam at Lake Ray Hubbard.

Trinity River: A drawing will be implemented to allow selected anglers to harvest one alligator gar over 48 inches in length per year from the Trinity River. The limited entry system would allow non-transferable harvest authorization for a set number of alligator gar. Authorizations would be selected and distributed through a random draw of interested applicants.

Statewide: Between one half-hour after sunset and one half-hour before sunrise, no person may take or possess an alligator gar by means of lawful archery equipment or crossbow.

Statewide: All persons who take an alligator gar from the public fresh waters of the state other than Falcon International Reservoir would be required to report the harvest via the department’s website or by mobile app within 24 hours of take.

The public is encouraged to provide comment on the proposed regulation changes. Opportunities to provide comments for or against these proposals include:

Facebook Live Webinar: TPWD Inland and Coastal Fisheries staff will present proposed fishing regulation changes and answer questions in a Facebook Live webinar at noon Feb. 27 on the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department
Facebook page.

Public hearings: TPWD staff will host several public hearings to receive input from stakeholders and constituents concerning the proposed regulation changes.

Conroe: Monday, March 4 at 7 p.m. at the San Jacinto River Authority Board Room, 1577 Dam Site Rd. Conroe Texas 77304.

Athens: Tuesday, March 5 at 7 p.m. at the Texas Freshwater Fisheries Center Hart-Morris Conservation Center, 5601 Peninsula Point Rd., Athens 75752.

San Antonio: Tuesday, March 5 at 7 p.m.at the Lions Field Adult and Senior Center, 2809 Broadway St, San Antonio, TX 78209.

Livingston: Wednesday, March 6 at 7 p.m. at the Polk County Judicial Center, 101 W Mill St Livingston, TX 77351.

Online: Comments on the changes can be provided on the TPWD public comment page until March 19.

Phone or Email: Ken Kurzawski (512) 389-4591, email ken.kurzawski@tpwd.texas.gov.

In person: The TPW Commission will take public comment on the proposed changes at their meeting on Wednesday, March 20 in Austin. Public testimony will normally be limited to three minutes per person.

[GarGuy]

SimeK, Yes I am sure of my data. The quote you dug out is from a study done by Dr Ott. Literally 35 years ago when TPWD had no clue how to age an alligator gar.

I have personally raised many alligator gar in ponds. I have also been directly involved with collecting otoliths to be cut and aged by TPWD (david buckmeir among them).

Here is a link to the latest I have which I believe was 2015 or so. This is TPWD work including Buckmeir. TPWD biologist were able to witness a gar spawning and documented the exact hatch date. Those gar grew 30 inches the first year. Enjoy, Steve

[GarGuy]

https://discussions.texasbowhunter.com/forums/showthread.php?t=527246&highlight=alligator+gar+facts

Here is the link mentioned above. You will see gar reach 4ft in 2 years in that study.

[simek]

GarGuy...thanks for posting...will read it...good conversation going here.

[crumrw]

This was right after TPWD implemented the one gar a day regulation. There was already a sustainable population at that time.



TPWD Commission

Work Session January, 2018



COMMISSIONER: Yeah. My question is: What's the distribution of these 80 year-old, 180-pound, 200-pound gars? I mean, are they--can they withstand the pressure that we're putting on them? I don't know the answer, but I'm looking to you--



KURZAWSKI: Yeah, We've--you know, as I said, we've been looking--certainly, the--you know, the Trinity River, the Middle Trinity specifically, we've done extensive work on that. You know, looked at exploitation rates of the population; looked at, you know, the size of the fish being harvested. And those exploitation rates the last time we looked, were within the range that we feel is sustaining the population.



We've been fortunate over the last couple of years to have good spawns in the river with some of the high water. And, you know, right now the way we look--what we see, the population is hold--it's certainly holding its own.



TPWDCommission

Work Session, March 21, 2018

Craig Bonds



BONDS: Texas is unique among the 50 states in that it presently has the best remaining Alligator gar population in the world. That, in turn, provides fishing opportunities for one of the largest freshwater fishes on the globe. ...Our gar populations are highly significant from not only an ecological standpoint, but are also economically important. Guides benefit from taking person using rod and reels and bows out to pursue Alligator gar.



The good news is that our Alligator gar populations appear to be in relatively good shape.



Since implementation of the one fish per day bag limit, we've estimated harvest in both the Trinity and the Brazos Rivers, as well as Choke Canyon Reservoir between the years of 2008 and 2013. After accounting for likely levels of non-reporting, we've estimated that exploitation ranges between 2 and 4 percent of the population annually. And I want to explain a little bit about how we've derived those estimates because it is fairly important.



Those exploitation estimates are typically derived through a tag and reporting type study. And what we did, is we tagged a number of Alligator gar in these systems; and then as those reported harvests come into us, then we can estimate what exploitation is. But the scientific literature is replete with these types of exploitation studies and one important factor is: How many are not reported that are caught and harvested?



And so that can be actually measured or you can use assumptions based on the reported literature. And how we did it, is we combed through the literature and we used a fairly liberal assumption of non-reporting. Specific to the Trinity River estimate, we used a 50 percent non-reporting rate; and then for the Choke Canyon estimate, we modeled various different non-reporting rates of anywhere from 20 to 80 percent. So I just want to make that fairly clear; and also, I want the Commission to understand that these estimates have been published in peer-reviewed scientific literature.



Based on our population modeling of those estimates, the level of harvest should be sustainable; but to prevent a substantial reduction in large gar, harvest should not exceed 5 percent annually. That's pretty important. In the Trinity, population continues to offer opportunities to take very large fish based on anecdotal information from guides that we regularly communicate with; and sampling in the Lower Trinity River below Lake Livingston as recently as 2015 as part of a separate study, revealed a robust size and age structure, which was not indicative of a population that was experiencing excessive exploitation in that area.



Under no length limits, which is our current regulation, and at 3 percent modeled annual harvest, we see that the population is stable. And as a reminder, we've estimated that 3 percent annual harvest reflects what we believe is the current status of the Trinity River population. But as we model harvest at 5 percent across all size classes, the population does decline; but it is still considered sustainable.



COMMISSIONER: Yeah, Because it's just not sustainable. I mean, I don't need too many studies to -- common sense will tell you it's not going to -- we're the only state left, I believe, that have these big fish. Is that not true?



BONDS: That's an accurate statement, especially at the abundance that we have them. There's certainly large, very large Alligator gar in other states; but I think Texas is truly the stronghold for big fish.





COMMISSIONER: So catch and release is not a problem, but -- and I don't want to get off on the bow hunting, but that really is the area that is of the most concern to me. So some sort of permit system where you can only shoot one a year? I don't know what it is.

Hmm, this is interesting.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

[bossbowman]

There are no trash fish, only trashy fishermen.

The shoot and dump attitude is cancerous among fishermen and it responsible for a lot of the animosity we see towards fishermen now.

As was said in an earlier post, if this wasn't happening we likely wouldn't even be having this conversation

Exactly, you guys made your bed. Now lie on it.

[Palehorse]

See this kind of stuff all the time. Left in the sun to rot.

[Jspradley]

See this kind of stuff all the time. Left in the sun to rot.

That’s disgraceful.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[GarGuy]

That’s disgraceful.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Of course there is not a single gator gar in that pic.

[Palehorse]

https://youtu.be/_2UPiBXiB-s

[DRT]

One man's trash is another man's treasure. To medgar and carp are trash fish. Kill em all. Just don't dump them at the ramp.

Gary

[DRT]

And the cormorants too.

Gary

[Hot4huntin]

https://discussions.texasbowhunter.c...ator+gar+facts

Here is the link mentioned above. You will see gar reach 4ft in 2 years in that study.

Great information, Steve!! Thanks for posting that link and the actual numbers in the research that has been done!