Most Underrated Cartridges

[tvc184]

By sayin the 9mm out performs the higher velocity 357sig you are basically saying a 257 Roberts out perform a 25-06 or 30-30 out performs 308.

No way the same bullet is out preformed by a slower variant unless the bullet is over expanding, if that’s the case you change bullets to handle the higher the impact velocity.

It takes +p+ loads for the 9 to make 357 sig velocities, the physics don’t add up for it to be out preformed

I am just repeating data put out by the manufacturer. I didn’t make up.

Add in the fact that the Federal HST doesn’t offer the same options in 357 Sig as the do in 9mm.

All of the following are Federal HST from their own data.

My department issues 9mm 147gr.

Bare Gelatin. Depth / Caliber after expansion
9mm 124gr. 11” / .85
9mm 147gr 12” / .85
.357S 125gr 11” / .83

147 better in both.

Heavy Clothing
9mm 124gr 12” / .59
9mm 147gr. 12.5 / .69
.357S 125gr. 12.5 / .64

Same penetration 147 better expansion

Auto Door Steel
9mm 124gr. 18 / .39
9mm 147gr. 17.5 / .43
.357S 125gr. 20.5 / .43

125 better penetration same expansion

Wallboard
9mm 124gr. 12.25 / .65
9mm 147gr. 13.25 / .70
.357S 125gr. 12.25 / .62

147 better in both.

Auto Windshield Glass
9mm 124gr. 9.25” / .66
9mm 147gr. 11” / .68
.357S 125gr. 10” / .56

147 better in both.

Conclusion from Federal... if you shoot someone through a car door, the .357 has better depth. The rest? All 147 9mm. Even standard velocity 9mm usually has better results than .357 but what does Federal know about their own ammo....

Even so, the data shows that they are virtually identical which is all that I have said all along. I don’t consider a couple of hundredths of an inch in expansion or slightly different penetration as really any difference.

Then it comes down to capacity and recovery time/recoil.

I took physics in high school and made good grades but I’m not sure how that makes Federal’s data wrong. Maybe Federal is fudging the numbers on the .357Sig from their own tests for some ulterior motive.

[Main Frame]

.220 Swift

[Texans42]

I am just repeating data put out by the manufacturer. I didn’t make up.

Add in the fact that the Federal HST doesn’t offer the same options in 357 Sig as the do in 9mm.

All of the following are Federal HST from their own data.

My department issues 9mm 147gr.

Bare Gelatin. Depth / Caliber after expansion
9mm 124gr. 11” / .85
9mm 147gr 12” / .85
.357S 125gr 11” / .83

147 better in both.

Heavy Clothing
9mm 124gr 12” / .59
9mm 147gr. 12.5 / .69
.357S 125gr. 12.5 / .64

Same penetration 147 better expansion

Auto Door Steel
9mm 124gr. 18 / .39
9mm 147gr. 17.5 / .43
.357S 125gr. 20.5 / .43

125 better penetration same expansion

Wallboard
9mm 124gr. 12.25 / .65
9mm 147gr. 13.25 / .70
.357S 125gr. 12.25 / .62

147 better in both.

Auto Windshield Glass
9mm 124gr. 9.25” / .66
9mm 147gr. 11” / .68
.357S 125gr. 10” / .56

147 better in both.

Conclusion from Federal... if you shoot someone through a car door, the .357 has better depth. The rest? All 147 9mm. Even standard velocity 9mm usually has better results than .357 but what does Federal know about their own ammo....

Even so, the data shows that they are virtually identical which is all that I have said all along. I don’t consider a couple of hundredths of an inch in expansion or slightly different penetration as really any difference.

Then it comes down to capacity and recovery time/recoil.

I took physics in high school and made good grades but I’m not sure how that makes Federal’s data wrong. Maybe Federal is fudging the numbers on the .357Sig from their own tests for some ulterior motive.

Lol that’s not a scientific test that’s a sales brochure. Why didn’t they use same bullets in the 357sig?


They arent comparing the caliber in those tests, they are comparing Federal ammo offerings, that they choose to test.

I can pick and choose different controls to make a 380 out perform a 9mm, but that would be a measure of that particular ammo not caliber.

Again 357sig is higher in velocity if you used identical FMJ bullets loaded to Sammi pressures, the 357 sig out performs the 9mm.

KE is a very simple formula

[Artos]

Doesn't matter & picking the fly crap out of the pepper...why do you think DPS abandoned the 357sig if it's significantly superior?? The gains are not going to cause any agency to pick the sig over the 40 or 9.

If ballistic tests were the only thing that mattered, every LE agency would have adopted the 10mm.

Lol that’s not a scientific test that’s a sales brochure. Why didn’t they use same bullets in the 357sig?


They arent comparing the caliber in those tests, they are comparing Federal ammo offerings, that they choose to test.

I can pick and choose different controls to make a 380 out perform a 9mm, but that would be a measure of that particular ammo not caliber.

Again 357sig is higher in velocity if you used identical FMJ bullets loaded to Sammi pressures, the 357 sig out performs the 9mm.

KE is a very simple formula

[Mike D]

Lol that’s not a scientific test that’s a sales brochure. Why didn’t they use same bullets in the 357sig?





They arent comparing the caliber in those tests, they are comparing Federal ammo offerings, that they choose to test.



I can pick and choose different controls to make a 380 out perform a 9mm, but that would be a measure of that particular ammo not caliber.



Again 357sig is higher in velocity if you used identical FMJ bullets loaded to Sammi pressures, the 357 sig out performs the 9mm.



KE is a very simple formula

But we don’t use FMJ in defense or LE applications.

What would any ammo manufacturer have to gain by showing in caliber to favor over the others?

As to the 357 Sig using 125 grain bullets, that’s the standard law enforcement Bullet used in the 357 Sig. I’m not aware of anyone loading a heavier self defense round for it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Texans42]

But we don’t use FMJ in defense or LE applications.

What would any ammo manufacturer have to gain by showing in caliber to favor over the others?

As to the 357 Sig using 125 grain bullets, that’s the standard law enforcement Bullet used in the 357 Sig. I’m not aware of anyone loading a heavier self defense round for it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I get they don’t use fmj, point is in testing bullets, bullets are designed around impact velocities,
, fmj isn’t effected by impact velocity(it’s a true control). But none the less Why didn’t they reciprocate bullets across both cartridges? The federal brochure isn’t a test of performance of different cartridges. It’s two bullets and two different powder charges with a random bullet tossed in to a 357sig

I carry 147gr via Double tap and velocity is almost 300 ft/s more the the federal 9mm Hts load. That’s a big difference for a pistol caliber.

[Texans42]

Doesn't matter & picking the fly crap out of the pepper...why do you think DPS abandoned the 357sig if it's significantly superior?? The gains are not going to cause any agency to pick the sig over the 40 or 9.

If ballistic tests were the only thing that mattered, every LE agency would have adopted the 10mm.

Not disagreeing simply stating the its impossible for two exact bullets to have the exact same performance while having a large swing in velocity.

[Greenheadless]

Lots of ballistic experts up in herra

[Jon B]

7X57
.260 Rem
.35 Whelen
.444 Marlin

[TacticalCowboy]

By sayin the 9mm out performs the higher velocity 357sig you are basically saying a 257 Roberts out perform a 25-06 or 30-30 out performs 308.

No way the same bullet is out preformed by a slower variant unless the bullet is over expanding, if that’s the case you change bullets to handle the higher the impact velocity.

It takes +p+ loads for the 9 to make 357 sig velocities, the physics don’t add up for it to be out preformed

Didn’t you never not know 300 blackout and 300 win mag are virtually identical in ballistics?



Oh, wait.......

[cbd10pt]

I recovered (and still have) a 115 grain Cor Bon DPX 9mm solid copper bullet that went straight through a pig's skull after I shot it on a gravel road.. And kicks less.

I don't see how .40 is underrated or superior to other mainstream pistol calibers. If you can't put someone down with modern hollow point ammunition from 9mm, .40, or .45 than you need a rifle or shotgun.

The real problem with most auto pistol ammo is expansion.
Expansion comes from speed.
I shoot the 155s out of a 5" spring field with a beefed up spring @ a little over 1400 fps.
That gets you over 600 fp and I promise it kicks way less than my 10mm did.

[Big Lee]

Still no .22hornet lovers.....

[tvc184]

KE is a very simple formula

But KE doesn’t kill.

Bleeding does.....

[tvc184]

But we don’t use FMJ in defense or LE applications.

What would any ammo manufacturer have to gain by showing in caliber to favor over the others?

As to the 357 Sig using 125 grain bullets, that’s the standard law enforcement Bullet used in the 357 Sig. I’m not aware of anyone loading a heavier self defense round for it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Didn’t you know ??

Federal is trying to convince the public to buy their cheaper ammo and leave their more expensive stuff in the shelf.