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Old 03-03-2021, 09:54 AM   #51
justletmein
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Originally Posted by Texans42 View Post
Non-resident big game license has 5 whitetail tags, 2 mule deer, and 4 turkey tags, two javillina and includes small game and upland.

What state has the same for $315?

The equivalent
In NM that's $2300, although you can't get that many deer tags
In Oklahoma that's $482 if you only hunt deer in one season. (Although you can get that many deer tags or turkey or javi)
You forgot the $10k lease fee they'll have to pay in order to find any huntable land in Texas.

In all seriousness, talking about the draw for public land in Texas they'd be buying a license for one species that they draw or put in to draw and it's extremely unrealistic to add up everything on the license to try to compare costs.
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Old 03-03-2021, 10:00 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by WBT View Post
And most western states allocate 90% of available tags to residents and when there's only one tag, it must go to a resident.
That's not true. Take CO, for example.

"Elk and deer tags that required six or more points are limited to 20% to non-residents while tags that took less than 6 points to draw permit up to 35% allocation to non-residents."

Another example is WY...

"Currently, the Wyoming resident receives or buys roughly 80% of the big game licenses .... Nonresident hunters receive approximately 20% of the licenses ..."
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Old 03-03-2021, 10:10 AM   #53
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It is amazing to me the State controlled lands in far West Texas such as the Chinati Mountains SNA owned by the State of Texas since 1996, that have no hunts. Other State areas have very minimal hunting on them. I also think it is a travesty to pay State employees to shoot Aoudad, Elk and other exotics on Texas properties instead of having hunts for them. JMHO
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Old 03-03-2021, 10:18 AM   #54
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Gripping on a survey isn't going to do much, this is going to have to be a legislative change. Only way to start that change is to get a hold of your congressman.

The draw system is quite annoying, but the way they control/ hand hold your hunt is the REALLY annoying part.

example: Black gap wma is almost 70,000 acres and give out 16 MD tags! Only giving three days for each hunt. That's ridiculous!
Elephant Mt give out the same 16 tags for only 20,000acres. So you can't say it's them protecting the resource.
If the resource can't handle the hunting pressure for giving 16 hunters access to the area for 15 - 30 days don't give out the tags.

Last edited by BassMaster13; 03-03-2021 at 10:27 AM.
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Old 03-03-2021, 10:27 AM   #55
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Left my 2Ę. Last year they actually changed 2 of the things I suggessted so maybe others were saying the same thing and they actually listened, I recommended more archery hunts opportunity and they did a little bit of that through the e-postcard hunts, though there still needs to be more with the WMA's they have access to, and recommended preference points being worth more and they cubed points so that works.
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Old 03-03-2021, 10:31 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by justletmein View Post
You forgot the $10k lease fee they'll have to pay in order to find any huntable land in Texas.

In all seriousness, talking about the draw for public land in Texas they'd be buying a license for one species that they draw or put in to draw and it's extremely unrealistic to add up everything on the license to try to compare costs.

The draw hunts wonít require a lease. Maybe Iím not understanding your point, but for a draw hunt the costs are rather easy to figure.


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Old 03-03-2021, 10:32 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by wilded View Post
It is amazing to me the State controlled lands in far West Texas such as the Chinati Mountains SNA owned by the State of Texas since 1996, that have no hunts. Other State areas have very minimal hunting on them. I also think it is a travesty to pay State employees to shoot Aoudad, Elk and other exotics on Texas properties instead of having hunts for them. JMHO
That is bad. This was years ago on the exotic hunt there but we had a Ranger tell us at Devils river he drives around and shoots them off the roads in the SNA all the time so it happens.
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Old 03-03-2021, 10:34 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by simek View Post
That's not true. Take CO, for example.

"Elk and deer tags that required six or more points are limited to 20% to non-residents while tags that took less than 6 points to draw permit up to 35% allocation to non-residents."

Another example is WY...

"Currently, the Wyoming resident receives or buys roughly 80% of the big game licenses .... Nonresident hunters receive approximately 20% of the licenses ..."

Wyoming has just introduced a Bill to reduce NR tags to 10% and further hike fees and non residents canít do self guided hunts in federally designated wilderness. Itís not currently 10%, but there are some pretty significant additional costs and significantly less opportunity for NR hunters.


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Old 03-03-2021, 10:34 AM   #59
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Gripping on a survey isn't going to do much, this is going to have to be a legislative change. Only way to start that change is to get a hold of your congressman.

The draw system is quite annoying, but the way they control/ hand hold your hunt is the REALLY annoying part.

example: Black gap wma is almost 70,000 acres and give out 16 MD tags! Only giving three days for each hunt. That's ridiculous!
Elephant Mt give out the same 16 tags for only 20,000acres. So you can't say it's them protecting the resource.
If the resource can't handle the hunting pressure for giving 16 hunters access to the area for 15 - 30 days don't give out the tags.

The sheep take precedence of MD. They are not going to turn out hunters for 30 days to harass sheep.

I am surprised they give out 16 tags for Black Gap to be honest. More populated deer density around Elephant. Wonder what success rate for these deer hunts are.
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Old 03-03-2021, 10:35 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Preacher Man View Post
If TPWD had a program that allowed a non-drawn hunter to volunteer to help run the/a hunt in exchange for a preference point or two for the following year in the hunt category of your choosing, would you volunteer?
I don't like that, points should only be gained by no draw in that category for the year. I'm not even that big a fan on the option to just buy a point for that year, you need to be in the hat to gain a point.
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Old 03-03-2021, 10:36 AM   #61
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It doesn't bother me except for New Mexico residents. They are biggest bunch of whiners I have ever seen.
I agree I say give NM the same quota as they give us!
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Old 03-03-2021, 10:38 AM   #62
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They wonít do anything that will cut there revenue. Lol.
You say that but cubing points I guarantee cut application #'s
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Old 03-03-2021, 10:42 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Army of Dad View Post
Wyoming has just introduced a Bill to reduce NR tags to 10% and further hike fees and non residents canít do self guided hunts in federally designated wilderness. Itís not currently 10%, but there are some pretty significant additional costs and significantly less opportunity for NR hunters.
I'm aware of the WY proposal, as well as the one in MT. I've got a pile of WY points, and I'm hoping that things don't change drastically there. I do agree about significantly higher cost/lower opportunity.
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Old 03-03-2021, 11:08 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by bossbowman View Post
You say that but cubing points I guarantee cut application #'s
We donít have the numbers but if it hurt that bad they would have gone back the other way.
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Old 03-03-2021, 11:41 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by simek View Post
That's not true. Take CO, for example.

"Elk and deer tags that required six or more points are limited to 20% to non-residents while tags that took less than 6 points to draw permit up to 35% allocation to non-residents."

Another example is WY...

"Currently, the Wyoming resident receives or buys roughly 80% of the big game licenses .... Nonresident hunters receive approximately 20% of the licenses ..."
Not true. In the pronghorn and deer draws NR get way more than 20% of the licenses. Pronghorn was about 50% for NR last year and in most years. Deer are close to 25% to NR.
Wyoming also allowed over 40 NR to hunt bighorn sheep last year.
NR get the tags not drawn in the resident draw rolled over into their draw for pronghorn and deer. Instead of putting those tags right into the leftover draw NR get to draw them. Cuts down on our extra tags we can draw and gives NR a bigger piece of the pie than residents.
NR get 25% of our sheep tags and about 20% of the moose tags too.
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Old 03-03-2021, 11:46 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Army of Dad View Post
Wyoming has just introduced a Bill to reduce NR tags to 10% and further hike fees and non residents canít do self guided hunts in federally designated wilderness. Itís not currently 10%, but there are some pretty significant additional costs and significantly less opportunity for NR hunters.


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The wilderness law has been on the books for years and the Outfitters Association pushed that one. Residents are not for it by and large.

Residents are wanting more sheep, moose, and LQ tags and not really in favor of the huge price increase, some blowhards are though.
Elk licenses numbers will not change but where they are will, less LQ tags and more General licenses.
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Old 03-03-2021, 12:00 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by wytex View Post
The wilderness law has been on the books for years and the Outfitters Association pushed that one. Residents are not for it by and large.

Residents are wanting more sheep, moose, and LQ tags and not really in favor of the huge price increase, some blowhards are though.
Elk licenses numbers will not change but where they are will, less LQ tags and more General licenses.

I probably should have added some punctuation separating the new Bill and the wilderness part.


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Old 03-03-2021, 12:05 PM   #68
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That law is BS and every resident I know does not really like it.

I'm all for the 90/10 split for moose and sheep, bison too. More LQ tags would also be nice but the huge price increase is not cool, imo.
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Old 03-03-2021, 12:12 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by justletmein View Post
You forgot the $10k lease fee they'll have to pay in order to find any huntable land in Texas.

In all seriousness, talking about the draw for public land in Texas they'd be buying a license for one species that they draw or put in to draw and it's extremely unrealistic to add up everything on the license to try to compare costs.
I hunt Whitetails, mule deer, and javi’s for WELL under 10k.

I’m just quantifying what you get for what you said below. Many states in west such as NM have OTC deer licenses for private also. Texas should at min require a NR small game licenses

“ The NR Texas hunting license is WAY more than double though, way more.”

Last edited by Texans42; 03-03-2021 at 12:31 PM.
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Old 03-03-2021, 12:13 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by wtx223 View Post
The sheep take precedence of MD. They are not going to turn out hunters for 30 days to harass sheep.

I am surprised they give out 16 tags for Black Gap to be honest. More populated deer density around Elephant. Wonder what success rate for these deer hunts are.

70,000 acres, with 16 hunters in the field for lets just give it a conservative 15 days. Come on. I don't think the hunters that are willing to wait and draw this tag are gonna be out there messing with the sheep. I understand a lot of that land is vast but give people an opportunity.
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Old 03-03-2021, 12:27 PM   #71
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Have not drawn anything since they went away from mail in applications. Now that they allow multiple selections in a category makes it even harder to draw. I donít see them changing NR requirements it but worth a shot. Itís a money maker for them as is.


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Old 03-03-2021, 12:29 PM   #72
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The price does not seem to have any impact on the number of applicants so those tags may be a little undervalued by the game and fish.
why not make it $3500 across the board...non res, res, rez
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Old 03-03-2021, 01:11 PM   #73
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In regards to opening up the west Texas WMAs to any cast of people to go in and shoot aoudad, would probably end in a bad and expensive outcome

The risk to the local big horn population is pretty high. Too great a risk of the average Joe hunter thinking heís on a group of aoudad and they be big horns. No offense meant to anyone out there, but look at the people who canít even get restrictions right on the other drawn hunts, (people shooting spikes on doe hunts, mule deer doe on whitetail doe/spike hunts, not seeing the 8th point on a 7 point and under hunt at the chap, etc.)
I would be interested to see the wildlife survey numbers on those vast WMAs and how many acres to the deer out there though.

My survey included the following concerns:

Let the individual purchase the loyalty point for $3 instead of putting in and possibly drawing a hunt. Many times you may not be able to get off work for the few hunts or the dates on the hunts you prefer donít line up. Iíd like the point but donít want to draw or risk drawing that year. Other states allow this. Would hope to see it implemented here.
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Old 03-03-2021, 01:24 PM   #74
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I filled out the survey yesterday saying:
1) prices need to be higher for non-residents or it should require a license before applying
2) odds need to be reduced for non-residents
3) tags with only one winner, e.g bighorn, should only go to residents.

Personally, I'd prefer equal (or nearly equal) access/odds for all (resident & non-resident) in Texas public land hunts, but we get screwed by every other western state with low tag allocations and high tag prices to access federal public land that our tax dollars pay for so there needs to be some reciprocity.
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Old 03-03-2021, 02:56 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by Texans42 View Post
I hunt Whitetails, mule deer, and javiís for WELL under 10k.

Iím just quantifying what you get for what you said below. Many states in west such as NM have OTC deer licenses for private also. Texas should at min require a NR small game licenses

ď The NR Texas hunting license is WAY more than double though, way more.Ē
FWIW as a former resident, and with a ton of preference points I will be continuing to apply to two WMA's I really like down there. I don't like them so much I will pay $300 non-refundable license fee much but they are good hunts. I think Texas would lose a lot of application fees if they made non-res buy a license first.

At the end of the day, I am ok if they do. I am opportunistic and always will do a hunt that I know is good on the cheap, but If I have to apply for 10 years, spend 3K in fees for a hunt worth half that, they will lose my and a lot of other nonresidents.

In 19 years of applying I drew TWO, yes TWO, high quality deer hunts... Lack of public land in Texas was major factor in my move.
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Old 03-03-2021, 03:40 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Yak blue View Post
In regards to opening up the west Texas WMAs to any cast of people to go in and shoot aoudad, would probably end in a bad and expensive outcome

The risk to the local big horn population is pretty high. Too great a risk of the average Joe hunter thinking he’s on a group of aoudad and they be big horns. No offense meant to anyone out there, but look at the people who can’t even get restrictions right on the other drawn hunts, (people shooting spikes on doe hunts, mule deer doe on whitetail doe/spike hunts, not seeing the 8th point on a 7 point and under hunt at the chap, etc.)
I would be interested to see the wildlife survey numbers on those vast WMAs and how many acres to the deer out there though.

My survey included the following concerns:

Let the individual purchase the loyalty point for $3 instead of putting in and possibly drawing a hunt. Many times you may not be able to get off work for the few hunts or the dates on the hunts you prefer don’t line up. I’d like the point but don’t want to draw or risk drawing that year. Other states allow this. Would hope to see it implemented here.
LOL Audad are much bigger than bighorn and different color, accidentally shooting a bighorn mistaking it for an audad is like accidentally shooting someone with a bow on public land, its not an accident if it happens.

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Old 03-03-2021, 05:14 PM   #77
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I did mine yesterday. I'm sure Texas will catch up on fees soon enough.

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Old 03-03-2021, 06:53 PM   #78
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70,000 acres, with 16 hunters in the field for lets just give it a conservative 15 days. Come on. I don't think the hunters that are willing to wait and draw this tag are gonna be out there messing with the sheep. I understand a lot of that land is vast but give people an opportunity.
Black Gap is a very sparsely-populated area. During the drought years, the deer density was only 1 deer per section. For 70,000 acres, thats only 110 total deer. At a 3:1 sex ratio, that's only 27-ish bucks. A potential harvest of 16 is an extremely high harvest rate of over 50%, way higher than desirable (and this doesn't even look at the buck age structure). During good years, the density is only 100 acres per deer (700 animals; 200ish bucks and 500ish does). If you then figure a low buck age structure of only 20%, that means there are only 40 mature bucks, and again, shooting 16 bucks is a very high harvest rate (40%).
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Old 03-03-2021, 06:56 PM   #79
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LOL Audad are much bigger than bighorn and different color, accidentally shooting a bighorn mistaking it for an audad is like accidentally shooting someone with a bow on public land, its not an accident if it happens.
Not disagreeing with this, but, in my opinion not every hunter out there uses all of their common sense, or logic. Some see what they want to see. Especially if they have an untrained eye or are rookies in identifying species.

Mule deer are generally larger and a different color than white tails but you’d be amazed at those who can’t tell a difference. If you’ve ever been on a drawn public hunt on a WMA or public land where both species inhabit, the biologists will make a point to explain the distinct differences in the two, give stern warnings about shooting the wrong species and that it’s happened before and you’ll be ticketed if you do. I could see that possibly being an issue on the WMAs that have both big horns and aoudads. A stretch to some, but still realistic
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Old 03-03-2021, 07:18 PM   #80
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Not disagreeing with this, but, in my opinion not every hunter out there uses all of their common sense, or logic. Some see what they want to see. Especially if they have an untrained eye or are rookies in identifying species.

Mule deer are generally larger and a different color than white tails but you’d be amazed at those who can’t tell a difference. If you’ve ever been on a drawn public hunt on a WMA or public land where both species inhabit, the biologists will make a point to explain the distinct differences in the two, give stern warnings about shooting the wrong species and that it’s happened before and you’ll be ticketed if you do. I could see that possibly being an issue on the WMAs that have both big horns and aoudads. A stretch to some, but still realistic
Back button.

I just want to shoot an aoudad! Lol
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Old 03-03-2021, 07:22 PM   #81
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So why let some out of stater come hunt, when there are plenty of locals who ainít getting picked...nope take care of us first!

I am biased, skunked 2 years in a row on the drawing


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Old 03-03-2021, 08:28 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by BuckSmasher View Post
FWIW as a former resident, and with a ton of preference points I will be continuing to apply to two WMA's I really like down there. I don't like them so much I will pay $300 non-refundable license fee much but they are good hunts. I think Texas would lose a lot of application fees if they made non-res buy a license first.

At the end of the day, I am ok if they do. I am opportunistic and always will do a hunt that I know is good on the cheap, but If I have to apply for 10 years, spend 3K in fees for a hunt worth half that, they will lose my and a lot of other nonresidents.

In 19 years of applying I drew TWO, yes TWO, high quality deer hunts... Lack of public land in Texas was major factor in my move.
Requiring some one to buy a small game licenses isnít got to effect applications

I spend $45 plus CC interest every year in idaho just to put in for a moose tag with lessor draw odds then most our deer hunts
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Old 03-03-2021, 08:30 PM   #83
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LOL Audad are much bigger than bighorn and different color, accidentally shooting a bighorn mistaking it for an audad is like accidentally shooting someone with a bow on public land, its not an accident if it happens.
I got three emails from NWFG highlighting the differences so apparently it happens.
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Old 03-03-2021, 09:55 PM   #84
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Not disagreeing with this, but, in my opinion not every hunter out there uses all of their common sense, or logic. Some see what they want to see. Especially if they have an untrained eye or are rookies in identifying species.

Mule deer are generally larger and a different color than white tails but you¬’d be amazed at those who can¬’t tell a difference. If you¬’ve ever been on a drawn public hunt on a WMA or public land where both species inhabit, the biologists will make a point to explain the distinct differences in the two, give stern warnings about shooting the wrong species and that it¬’s happened before and you¬’ll be ticketed if you do. I could see that possibly being an issue on the WMAs that have both big horns and aoudads. A stretch to some, but still realistic
I have been to Devils river twice, there are a few bighorn there and they never said a thing about distinguishing between the two
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Old 03-03-2021, 09:58 PM   #85
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I got three emails from NWFG highlighting the differences so apparently it happens.
Who dat?
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Old 03-03-2021, 11:04 PM   #86
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I have been to Devils river twice, there are a few bighorn there and they never said a thing about distinguishing between the two
No there isnít.
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Old 03-04-2021, 12:12 AM   #87
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I have been to Devils river twice, there are a few bighorn there and they never said a thing about distinguishing between the two
There are not any bighorn on devils river.

And there has been an instance of hunter shooting a bighorn ram thinking it was an aoudad a few years back, so it does happen.
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Old 03-04-2021, 06:19 AM   #88
Yak blue
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Originally Posted by wtx223 View Post
There are not any bighorn on devils river.

And there has been an instance of hunter shooting a bighorn ram thinking it was an aoudad a few years back, so it does happen.
I remember reading about that somewhere. Curious what the restitution was on that citation.
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Old 03-04-2021, 11:13 AM   #89
wytex
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Update on Wyoming NR bill, it failed in committee.
However, Sy made it clear the outfitters association wants $1400 regular elk tags and $2000 in the special draw. Remember that when you are looking for a Wyoming elk hunt.
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Old 03-04-2021, 12:06 PM   #90
justletmein
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Originally Posted by osochuck View Post
So why let some out of stater come hunt, when there are plenty of locals who ainít getting picked...nope take care of us first!

I am biased, skunked 2 years in a row on the drawing


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Two years?!? I went 8! LOL.... yet I can draw every year in Colorado somehow, and every year in Wyoming if I rotate species.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wtx223 View Post
There are not any bighorn on devils river.

And there has been an instance of hunter shooting a bighorn ram thinking it was an aoudad a few years back, so it does happen.
I'd put money on that "hunter" knowing exactly what he shot and trying to use Aoudad as an excuse after getting caught.
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Old 03-04-2021, 01:41 PM   #91
simek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wytex View Post
Update on Wyoming NR bill, it failed in committee.
However, Sy made it clear the outfitters association wants $1400 regular elk tags and $2000 in the special draw. Remember that when you are looking for a Wyoming elk hunt.
Wow. That is quite the expensive elk tag!
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Old 03-04-2021, 02:38 PM   #92
wtx223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yak blue View Post
I remember reading about that somewhere. Curious what the restitution was on that citation.
$100 a month for next 30-40 years. Something ridiculous like that if I remember correctly.
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Old 03-04-2021, 02:43 PM   #93
wtx223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justletmein View Post
Two years?!? I went 8! LOL.... yet I can draw every year in Colorado somehow, and every year in Wyoming if I rotate species.



I'd put money on that "hunter" knowing exactly what he shot and trying to use Aoudad as an excuse after getting caught.
Nope. Had it hanging on skinning rack in town til someone told him that wasnít an aoudad. Doubt he is much of a hunter. That being said, most people that have never seen either would probably have a hard time differentiating when animal is running across mountain side.
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Old 03-04-2021, 02:44 PM   #94
justletmein
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lol **** that's crazy
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Old 03-04-2021, 03:15 PM   #95
Big Ace
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Hereís what I wrote.

1) I do not like that non residents have the same draw odds as residents. Every other state in the nation allocated more tags for residents than non residents.
2) I believe that non residents should have to purchase a valid hunting license to be able to apply to the draw. This would be similar to having to buy the APH to apply to the e postcard hunts
3) I believe more hunts should be offered in more WMA and refuges. I know of many that are not hunted and could very easily support draw hunts. This would increase revenue and increase draw odds.
4) I would like to see the option to purchase a preference point.
5) I would like to see a point guard type system that you can purchase that would allow you to turn in your tag if drawn one time per hunt category. Arizona has such a system. It would increase revenue and help hunters that can not make that specific date. You could charge $15-20 per year per category. Once you use the point guard, you cannot use it again until you draw in that category and your points return to zero.
6) I would like to see more standby hunts offered.
7) it would be nice to have the option to draw with more than 4 people total per application.
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Old 03-04-2021, 03:19 PM   #96
hooligan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by osochuck View Post
So why let some out of stater come hunt, when there are plenty of locals who ainít getting picked...nope take care of us first!

I am biased, skunked 2 years in a row on the drawing


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Lol, saddle up... I'm double digits in most categories and the least amount of points I have is 9 but it's a cheap raffle ticket for what can be good hunts (so i hear)

I do think NR should be excluded from some of the hunts like big horn and mule deer since it's such a limited opportunity here and limit the amount of NR that can draw in a category like western states do
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Old 03-04-2021, 03:21 PM   #97
justletmein
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Something to think about, if Texas were to allocate let's say 95% of drawn tags to residents like some of you are thinking then it would guarantee 5% of tags go to nonresidents. I'm not sure that's what we want as I doubt there's any NR's who put in for a lot of these hunts and with the way the odds work I'm not sure we want to guarantee any tags go to NR's.
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Old 03-04-2021, 03:29 PM   #98
SmTx
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Are we raging on a survey that was geared towards feedback on the online portal that allows you to enter draw hunts?

Dear Public Hunter,

In an effort to evaluate our Public Hunt Draw System, we are conducting a survey to determine how you think the online Public Hunt Draw Application System did this season.
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Old 03-04-2021, 03:34 PM   #99
Army of Dad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmTx View Post
Are we raging on a survey that was geared towards feedback on the online portal that allows you to enter draw hunts?

Dear Public Hunter,

In an effort to evaluate our Public Hunt Draw System, we are conducting a survey to determine how you think the online Public Hunt Draw Application System did this season.

The very last ďquestionĒ allows for comments on the entire program.


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Old 03-04-2021, 05:47 PM   #100
BuckSmasher
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texans42 View Post
Requiring some one to buy a small game licenses isnít got to effect applications

I spend $45 plus CC interest every year in idaho just to put in for a moose tag with lessor draw odds then most our deer hunts
I think you are going to have to start buying the $264 non res hunting license as well, or is that refunded to you if unsuccessful?
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