School security

[Walker]

Joe Pags had the answer to school shootings today. He said congress should give all schools the same security that they have at the Capital.

[Burnadell]

If a person is intent on harming kids, or any large group of people, all they have to do is wait until the last bell rings, and the students start filing out of the classroom…or the shooter could start shooting in a crowded mall. There is NO way to prevent all evil folks from mass killings if they are intent on destruction.

[Mudslinger]

Originally Posted by Burnadell

If a person is intent on harming kids, or any large group of people, all they have to do is wait until the last bell rings, and the students start filing out of the classroom…or the shooter could start shooting in a crowded mall. There is NO way to prevent all evil folks from mass killings if they are intent on destruction.

Said this many times! Truth!

[Drycreek3189]

Originally Posted by Burnadell

If a person is intent on harming kids, or any large group of people, all they have to do is wait until the last bell rings, and the students start filing out of the classroom…or the shooter could start shooting in a crowded mall. There is NO way to prevent all evil folks from mass killings if they are intent on destruction.

Unfortunately, you are right Randy.

[texasdeerhunter]

Originally Posted by Burnadell

If a person is intent on harming kids, or any large group of people, all they have to do is wait until the last bell rings, and the students start filing out of the classroom…or the shooter could start shooting in a crowded mall. There is NO way to prevent all evil folks from mass killings if they are intent on destruction.

You are correct, but at least some of them would have a chance to run and hide as opposed to be hostage in a classroom that is 400 sq ft with no where to go. Let’s keep them safe and secure on the campus, let’s start with that. Imo

[Walker]

Dang, you guys go off point immediately. I said secure the schools like the capital

[Gumbo Man]

I agree with guarding our schools the same as the capital. But I do agree with Burnadell. Crazy will do what crazy does. Untill we tell little Johnny there will be no more time out and start blistering his butt and stop catering to everything immoral and ungodly we are getting a real glimpse of our childrens future.

[mwk128]

Originally Posted by Burnadell

If a person is intent on harming kids, or any large group of people, all they have to do is wait until the last bell rings, and the students start filing out of the classroom…or the shooter could start shooting in a crowded mall. There is NO way to prevent all evil folks from mass killings if they are intent on destruction.

Then why is this only a problem in the US?

[Mitchell8]

Like when the capital was overun by terrorists yet not one representative was harmed. Ya i get it

[mwk128]

Originally Posted by Walker

Dang, you guys go off point immediately. I said secure the schools like the capital

I’m not opposed to that but how do you pay for it? It seems like people always get riled up when someone suggests increasing their taxes. Not to mention finding enough qualified police to fill those roles. There are something like 800,000 police officers in America right now. Around 130,000 individual schools. If you say 4 or 5 officers assigned to each school building you are looking at almost doubling the number of police officers in the country. And if news reports are accurate it seems to me like a fair number of the ones we have right now can’t be trusted to defend the schools.

[IkemanTX]

Originally Posted by mwk128

Then why is this only a problem in the US?

Because we have the most fractured societal foundations. Why do other countries not have to explain that women don’t have schlongs? Why do most other countries inately understand late term abortions (and even post birth if some liberals get their way) to be immoral but our society can’t understand that.

The fundamentals of what hold a society together are crumbling faster in the US than anywhere else in the world, and I would say faster than any time in history. We incentivize fatherless homes, train our citizens to view victimhood as their identities, and desensitize people to the harm of others through movies, games, and painting anyone who disagrees with us as evil.

When you have a society who doesn’t understand their own identity, view every adversity in their life as someone else’s fault, and then tell them over and over that all who disagree with “their side” are the evil perpetrators…. It is no wonder they have dehumanized people to the point of killing them.


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[tvc184]

Wait until 300 kids gather at the bus stop to go home and be stationed away with a suppressed rifle.

Toss Molotov cocktails or pipe bombs into school windows.

Mow down the 300 kids at the bus stop with a vehicle.

Do like Adam Landsa at Sandy Hook and shoot out the locked door glass to gain entry.

Wait for a school bus on a known daily route to stop at a stop sign, shoot the driver, enter the bus and proceed to…….

I believe in making it tough. Make the schools harder to enter, allow armed teachers and so on but how do you stop a dedicated attacker who can choose the target and time?

[ThisLadyHunts]

Originally Posted by mwk128

Then why is this only a problem in the US?

Please go back and read post #7. There’s where you’ll find your answer.

[tvc184]

Originally Posted by tvc184

Wait until 300 kids gather at the bus stop to go home and be stationed away with a suppressed rifle.

Toss Molotov cocktails or pipe bombs into school windows.

Mow down the 300 kids at the bus stop with a vehicle.

Do like Adam Landsa at Sandy Hook and shoot out the locked door glass to gain entry.

Wait for a school bus on a known daily route to stop at a stop sign, shoot the driver, enter the bus and proceed to…….

I believe in making it tough. Make the schools harder to enter, allow armed teachers and so on but how do you stop a dedicated attacker who can choose the target and time?

….. and one of the main reasons I bring that up is because it is not a gun issue. You could take away all of the guns and not lessen the threat.

[S-3 Ranch]

Originally Posted by Burnadell

If a person is intent on harming kids, or any large group of people, all they have to do is wait until the last bell rings, and the students start filing out of the classroom…or the shooter could start shooting in a crowded mall. There is NO way to prevent all evil folks from mass killings if they are intent on destruction.

Yep hard to prevent Homicidal ideation !
Lots of looney tunes like Charles Whitman and such

[brrdnk]

I agree same security as congress. We all know that won’t happen. I believe us Dads, citizens, should volunteer to stand watch at your local school. Background checks, training, but armed. I know I would volunteer a day or two a month or even more if that’s what it took. It’s going to start with us to make a difference and get politics out of it.

[Burnadell]

If the school had a policy to keep doors locked, then, sadly, the teachers of that classroom got lax, as I am sure happens every day, then it was on them. If the outside door was supposed to be locked, then someone (superintendent, principal, maintenance personnel, whomever), is puckered up waiting for the investigation to be completed…assuming there was a good security policy in place. I can understand how most people could get lax thinking that it wouldn’t happen at their school.

[Gumbo Man]

Originally Posted by mwk128

Then why is this only a problem in the US?

Maybe because other countries teach there children that there will be consequences for bad and evil behavior. Maybe because other countries actually prosecute and imprison the bad and evil without giving years of slaps on the hand until they snap and make headline news.

My question is why did this problem not exist 50 years ago when a lot of us were growing up? We had guns. We had schools. Could it possibly be the fact that we were a real Christian Nation with morals as compared to now?

[Artos]

Take the $60 billion given to Ukraine (lawmakers) & divide it by 139,000 schools...there is some $$$ for hardening.

Dems have stopped two separate bills to fund hardening schools.

[Drycreek3189]

Originally Posted by Artos

Take the $60 billion given to Ukraine (lawmakers) & divide it by 139,000 schools...there is some $$$ for hardening.

Dems have stopped two separate bills to fund hardening schools.

They had to spend that money to get sex change operations for prison inmates.

[Burnadell]

Originally Posted by tvc184

Wait until 300 kids gather at the bus stop to go home and be stationed away with a suppressed rifle.

Toss Molotov cocktails or pipe bombs into school windows.

Mow down the 300 kids at the bus stop with a vehicle.

Do like Adam Landsa at Sandy Hook and shoot out the locked door glass to gain entry.

Wait for a school bus on a known daily route to stop at a stop sign, shoot the driver, enter the bus and proceed to…….

I believe in making it tough. Make the schools harder to enter, allow armed teachers and so on but how do you stop a dedicated attacker who can choose the target and time?

Originally Posted by tvc184

….. and one of the main reasons I bring that up is because it is not a gun issue. You could take away all of the guns and not lessen the threat.

Exactly!

[Hix]

Every bank I go in just about has a armed city policeman.. guarding our money.
But most of the schools do not.


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[Burnadell]

Originally Posted by Artos

Take the $60 billion given to Ukraine (lawmakers) & divide it by 139,000 schools...there is some $$$ for hardening.

Dems have stopped two separate bills to fund hardening schools.

Even if the money is appropriated, finding the people to fill the positions is problematic. Can you imagine how boring it must be to stand around all day doing nothing everyday waiting for years for a threat that may not ever happen. There is no easy solution, and I don’t think there is any solution to stop every lunatic/psycho out there who is intent on killing a large number of people.

[Razorback01]

Originally Posted by brrdnk

I agree same security as congress. We all know that won’t happen. I believe us Dads, citizens, should volunteer to stand watch at your local school. Background checks, training, but armed. I know I would volunteer a day or two a month or even more if that’s what it took. It’s going to start with us to make a difference and get politics out of it.

I'm in- volunteer to stand watch at your local school. Background checks, training, but armed.

[Mudcatz]

Originally Posted by tvc184

Wait until 300 kids gather at the bus stop to go home and be stationed away with a suppressed rifle.

Toss Molotov cocktails or pipe bombs into school windows.

Mow down the 300 kids at the bus stop with a vehicle.

Do like Adam Landsa at Sandy Hook and shoot out the locked door glass to gain entry.

Wait for a school bus on a known daily route to stop at a stop sign, shoot the driver, enter the bus and proceed to…….

I believe in making it tough. Make the schools harder to enter, allow armed teachers and so on but how do you stop a dedicated attacker who can choose the target and time?

Reality sucks don’t it. We will not have to answers for everything or even have the power stop everything. I do think we can improve school security a lot. Need to draw the line of what is acceptable and the norm and pray a lot.

[tvc184]

Originally Posted by Mudcatz

Reality sucks don’t it. We will not have to answers for everything or even have the power stop everything. I do think we can improve school security a lot. Need to draw the line of what is acceptable and the norm and pray a lot.

There are plenty of things to do that can lessen the likelihood of such crimes and lessen the casualties if they do happen.

Nothing can be stopped entirely and unfortunately the politics of the situation will blame it on the gun.

Apparently in the situation all of the children and teachers were killed in a single room. Much will be made about the AR15 but a .22 pistol would have likely produced the same results at that range.

The deadliest school firearms mass murder in United States history was at Virginia Tech, with a police Department on campus and his weapons were a 9 mm and .22 pistols. The deadliest mass murder in US history was it 1927, almost 100 years ago and it was committed by a guy who lost the school board election. He killed 38 elementary children and 6 adults without a firearms.

But the mantra will be the AR15 was the culprit…..

[SCREAMINREELS]

Originally Posted by Razorback01

I'm in- volunteer to stand watch at your local school. Background checks, training, but armed.

Look up watchdogs.

Our school has a program called watchdogs and it’s actually a nationally recognized program. Being armed is not part of it but among other things keeping an eye on the campus is. Multiple dads there every day for this exact reason.

[cva34]

all i ever as is (whats changed)..when I was in lets say high school..Really rural area many times took PU to school and parked in school lot with shotgun/rifle in rear window gun rack so I could go hunting after school...Others did same......and no body locked doors on vehicles back then..Don't remember any issues..
Only thing I see is we parents/teachers have lost control over Kids/Students..Back then if ya got Licks in school for whatever ya got them again when ya got home..Parents Backed school Discipline...(now its law suit city)...and its only Lawyers that come out winners MONEY...WUPPINS work!!!!
We never had a police in school..We had a Principle..that was allowed to take care of us...with words/paddle/expelled..................

[Gumbo Man]

We all say that the government has to much control over our lives but in the same breath say that we expect them to make our communities safer. As local citizens we should petition our local governing body to work with US to make our own community what we want it to be. Demand our tax dollars be used better, pool our own private resources and really get involved and OWN the community that WE have developed and choose to live in. If there was a community drive to raise the resources earmarked for school safety enhancement I would gladly open the check book.

[M16]

Originally Posted by mwk128

I’m not opposed to that but how do you pay for it? It seems like people always get riled up when someone suggests increasing their taxes.

Maybe instead of building grandiose football stadiums use that money on security?

Unfortunately nothing will work when you have crazy people with ill intent on their minds.

[WItoTX]

How about, wild notion, let teachers exercise their 2nd amendment rights. Let principals carry. If the principal has a student he does not trust, let's check that specific student, not ALL students. If teachers don't want to carry, that's cool, the parents should be allowed to move their kids out of that class if they would like. If a principal refuses to allow teachers to carry, the school can be petitioned to have him removed, if the majority want teachers to carry.

There is zero "one size fits all" solutions. And trying to "Secure schools like the capitol" only increases our taxes, ****** off the good kids (And parents who have to wait), teaches kids to accept unwarranted searches and that their fellow student is not to be trusted, and promotes an atmosphere of fear. Among other things. And at the end of the day, a shooter can just wait 1' outside the door of the building and do the exact same thing he would have otherwise done in a classroom.

[Bryan11]

I'd open my wallet up and spend a few hundred dollars to pay some off-duty officers OT to rotate security shifts at the school. At a large elementary school if every family pitched in, you could post a couple extra people up at school.

Can bad stuff still happen, absolutely, but at least you have a better deterrent in place.

[Hoggslayer]

Originally Posted by M16

Maybe instead of building grandiose football stadiums use that money on security?

Unfortunately nothing will work when you have crazy people with ill intent on their minds.

All school are equal when it comes to money for education from the state (per student). Poor districts get the same as districts with $80m indoor practice facilities. The difference is the richer districts pay for those absurd amenities through bond elections.

The state of Texas as of May 2018 didn't have any standard for school security, no program to monitor or audit a districts safety. I think there should spot inspections for things like unlocked doors, complacency in procedure that compromises security. If that school scores below a certain grade then, the district has to fork over some of that bond money to go into a school safety fund.

When Little Johnny has to play football in the old stadium because the district was lacks on safety and you start dipping into their wallets then things will change. If the School board cant figure out how to do it, or if they have the wrong administration in place to get it done, and it starts becoming obvious to tax payers that their tax money was squandered away; THEN you'll see a change.

This is a idea and my opinion. I understand very well that evil in this world is all around us and some how some way bad things will still happen, but doing nothing is the wrong thing.

[sqiggy]

Originally Posted by Gumbo Man

My question is why did this problem not exist 50 years ago when a lot of us were growing up? We had guns. We had schools. Could it possibly be the fact that we were a real Christian Nation with morals as compared to now?

Back then, we weren’t put in time out. We got our buts busted and we moved on.

[hpdrifter]

Originally Posted by ThisLadyHunts

Please go back and read post #7. There’s where you’ll find your answer.

you've got to have a parent that WILL do that!

[hpdrifter]

Originally Posted by sqiggy

Back then, we weren’t put in time out. We got our buts busted and we moved on.

there were also stronger family "units" and the morals weren't deteriorated.

[Gumbo Man]

Originally Posted by Hoggslayer

This is a idea and my opinion. I understand very well that evil in this world is all around us and some how some way bad things will still happen, but doing nothing is the wrong thing.

Spot on. Doing nothing is the equivalent of sleeping with your doors unlocked at night. My doors at home are locked day and night. Can someone still breach my home? Absolutely. And then they will be shot in the face numerous times.

[RiverRat00]

They should have security infrastructure in place at schools.

schools should be designed where all hallways have their own security doors, much like most hospitals. Grades are broken down by hallways and they never come out of hallway even when bel rings.

All schools should have panic alarms.

All schools should budget for armed security guards.

[S-3 Ranch]

Originally Posted by M16

Maybe instead of building grandiose football stadiums use that money on security?

Unfortunately nothing will work when you have crazy people with ill intent on their minds.

That’s a really popular idea, last night I was talking with some friends and that was the topic, over the top sports arenas
Here in Boerne , BISD is pushing for a sports announcer, instant replay jumbo screens in all the sports, softball, baseball, football , to replace the present sports media center
Seems like a a huge mess bond and taxing issues
Maybe security should be more relevant

And 50 years ago we had mass killings like the UT tower shooter, political assassins, political riots, I don’t see much change

[jay07ag]

We also have the highest rate of single parent households on the planet at around 27%. That's 3-4 times the average of the rest of the world. It all starts in the home.

[SabineHunter]

A couple of years ago, after Sante Fe, I proposed a security idea that would cost very little but up the amount of armed protectors instantly at every school. It was not acted on.

My plan was to have volunteering teachers go through an intensive training program for armed threats. Once trained, these teachers would have a nondescript lockbox secured to their desk. If an event was unfolding, the teacher would put in their code, and the lock box would open. When this occurred, a signal would go to the district office that the box was opened and where it was opened. The gun inside would be painted orange so that incoming police would recognize the person as probably a good guy. We could have a number of armed teachers on the scene immediately.

[Goldeneagle]

Originally Posted by S-3 Ranch

That’s a really popular idea, last night I was talking with some friends and that was the topic, over the top sports arenas
Here in Boerne , BISD is pushing for a sports announcer, instant replay jumbo screens in all the sports, softball, baseball, football , to replace the present sports media center
Seems like a a huge mess bond and taxing issues
Maybe security should be more relevant

And 50 years ago we had mass killings like the UT tower shooter, political assassins, political riots, I don’t see much change

50yrs ago it was stabbings in school.

[Artos]

Originally Posted by Burnadell

Even if the money is appropriated, finding the people to fill the positions is problematic. Can you imagine how boring it must be to stand around all day doing nothing everyday waiting for years for a threat that may not ever happen. There is no easy solution, and I don’t think there is any solution to stop every lunatic/psycho out there who is intent on killing a large number of people.

I honestly don't think so Randy...if the hardening was done correctly, I think there would be plenty of LE that would enjoy / take pride protecting our kids.

Schumer blocked a bill a day or two ago for funding that would harden in this manner. Blocked because it 'would bring more guns on campus.' It's mind boggling how irrational liberals become about firearms. They do not even want armed protection via LE. This is totally irrational.

How much more clown show can this get??

[Goldeneagle]

Originally Posted by SCREAMINREELS

Look up watchdogs.

Our school has a program called watchdogs and it’s actually a nationally recognized program. Being armed is not part of it but among other things keeping an eye on the campus is. Multiple dads there every day for this exact reason.

I was a Watchdog when my son was in school. I enjoyed every minute of it. Sure we weren't armed, but I would have gone down fighting to protect those kids.

[sharkhunter]

Originally Posted by Walker

Joe Pags had the answer to school shootings today. He said congress should give all schools the same security that they have at the Capital.

I’ve made this argument more time than I can count with libs the last few days. They believe outlawing the
AR-15 will immediately stop all school shooting. I just can’t with them anymore. The level of stupidity is hurting my brain.

[Geezy Rider]

Originally Posted by WItoTX

How about, wild notion, let teachers exercise their 2nd amendment rights. Let principals carry. If the principal has a student he does not trust, let's check that specific student, not ALL students. If teachers don't want to carry, that's cool, the parents should be allowed to move their kids out of that class if they would like. If a principal refuses to allow teachers to carry, the school can be petitioned to have him removed, if the majority want teachers to carry.

There is zero "one size fits all" solutions. And trying to "Secure schools like the capitol" only increases our taxes, ****** off the good kids (And parents who have to wait), teaches kids to accept unwarranted searches and that their fellow student is not to be trusted, and promotes an atmosphere of fear. Among other things. And at the end of the day, a shooter can just wait 1' outside the door of the building and do the exact same thing he would have otherwise done in a classroom.

That is already an option allowed in Texas schools today but the Texas school system has too many libs running things to allow teachers to be armed. Many rural schools, including those near me have adopted this policy of arming and training teachers.

[SabineHunter]

Originally Posted by Geezy Rider

That is already an option allowed in Texas schools today but the Texas school system has too many libs running things to allow teachers to be armed. Many rural schools, including those near me have adopted this policy of arming and training teachers.

Actually, I wouldn't want teachers/admin to carry throughout the day, too many things could go wrong. Hence, my idea of the lock box on the desk.

[HogHunter34]

I agree with others that nothing will be 100% proof & stop every scenario but I also don’t believe we use that as a “nothing can be done” Many on this site as myself have a vested interest in the topic as our spouses are teachers & kids are still school age pondering the idea of could we be next? Not to live in fear but I believe we can always improve from what we learn or know. Heck with the technology we have at our disposal perhaps better security in terms of cameras, video, alert system that auto locks doors. Training with local LEO on coordinating plans,etc. I don’t have the answers but with todays technology & resources there are opportunities to make improvements

[donpablo]

Remember when this was a problem with post office employees? What did they do to turn things around?

[Arrowsmith]

Originally Posted by Burnadell

If the school had a policy to keep doors locked, then, sadly, the teachers of that classroom got lax, as I am sure happens every day, then it was on them. If the outside door was supposed to be locked, then someone (superintendent, principal, maintenance personnel, whomever), is puckered up waiting for the investigation to be completed…assuming there was a good security policy in place. I can understand how most people could get lax thinking that it wouldn’t happen at their school.

Before I retired I did a lot of school construction work. We built new schools and retrofitted/remodeled many other school buildings. We built a lot of front entry security vestibules.

Most of my most recent work was in the Plano ISD. For the most part elementary and middle school main front entry doors are reasonably secure. Visitors have to ring a door bell and be buzzed in to enter the security vestibules. I say reasonably secure because glass could be shot out, broken out with a sledge hammer, and on some campuses a vehicle could possibly be driven thru the glass curtain walls etc.

Other exterior doors are not as secure. The last elementary I remodeled in Plano had exterior doors at the end of each corridor and also exterior doors on almost every classroom. These are aluminum frame with glass doors that could easily be breeched with a sledge hammer or shot out. We worked throughout the school year so I got to see a lot of what goes on day to day. I have seen these exterior classroom doors propt open on nice days with a door stop. I have seen exterior corridor doors propt open during recess so the kids could have access to the restroom. I have seen exterior corridor doors that would not latch because of a misadjusted door closer or because of building pressure created by the HVAC system (outside air and AC units).

Complacency (it could not happen here).

Staff not following school district security protocol.

Equipment not working properly (door closers and building pressure holding exterior doors open).

Also many campuses still use "open concept" classrooms which have no lockable door to the corridors.

To truly "harden" existing campuses would be a huge task.

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