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Old 10-19-2019, 06:07 PM   #1
trophy8
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Default Culling doesnít work

https://youtu.be/s_04UHQAn7g

Iíd like to have a serious discussion about this.

We donít cull young deer. 4-5 year olds is about all we shoot. We feed protein. The land isnít overgrazed. But we have seen a significant change since we have been slamming poor quality mature deer and leaving the bigger deer alone. I also like getting the extra mouths off the feed.
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Old 10-19-2019, 06:16 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by trophy8 View Post
https://youtu.be/s_04UHQAn7g

I’d like to have a serious discussion about this.

We don’t cull young deer. 4-5 year olds is about all we shoot. We feed protein. The land isn’t overgrazed. But we have seen a significant change since we have been slamming poor quality mature deer and leaving the bigger deer alone. I also like getting the extra mouths off the feed.



How long have you been on this lease to notice the difference?



Culling to us is removing mouths. Killing deer 4 and older that don't show favorable traits......just to remove said extra mouths. A crap 3 yo gets removed occasionally but its rare.


If that sucker has good beams, tine length, mass and other favorable traits we pass.

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Old 10-19-2019, 06:17 PM   #3
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https://www.qdma.com/qdm-works-culli...ign=2019-10-17
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Old 10-19-2019, 06:18 PM   #4
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https://discussions.texasbowhunter.c...d.php?t=746597
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Old 10-19-2019, 06:18 PM   #5
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How long have you been on this lease?
3rd year. Itís been managed similarly for more than that.
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Old 10-19-2019, 06:21 PM   #6
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How long have you been on this lease to notice the difference?



Culling to us is removing mouths. Killing mature deer 4 and older that don't show favorable traits......just to remove said extra mouths. A crap 3 yo gets removed occasionally but its rare.
Agreed 100%. I think what they are saying doesnít work is killing young deer. We for sure do not do that. And Iím genuinely curious on this. But I think thereís a lot of factors to each management plan.
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Old 10-19-2019, 06:26 PM   #7
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There's a whole podcast on this. Useless on a low fence place.

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Old 10-19-2019, 06:26 PM   #8
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I have better success with killing spikes first and foremost. Then killing the obvious 7s, anything smaller than a 10 at 3+, and killing 10s with short G4’s at 4+. My personal opinion is you can’t have 150”+ deer if all you have is a bunch of 8pts running around.
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Old 10-19-2019, 06:28 PM   #9
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There's a whole podcast on this. Useless on a low fence place.
Agree, you have to have an enormous ranch for this to work on a low fence place.
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Old 10-19-2019, 06:39 PM   #10
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Useless in a low fence subdivision unless the other 100 land owners are like minded
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Old 10-19-2019, 06:43 PM   #11
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I have better success with killing spikes first and foremost. Then killing the obvious 7s, anything smaller than a 10 at 3+, and killing 10s with short G4ís at 4+. My personal opinion is you canít have 150Ē+ deer if all you have is a bunch of 8pts running around.
OMG, you kill spikes!!!?
You must be new round these parts
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Old 10-19-2019, 06:44 PM   #12
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You’ll never kill of the 8 point genetic, but you can improve genetics somewhat and thin numbers to where you’re feeding less deer. We’ve been doing it and have seen great improvements on the bigger deer we are killing, we also feed a lot of protein and are on a very large LF ranch with no hunting pressure around us really
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Old 10-19-2019, 06:44 PM   #13
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Lol @ spikes first and foremost.
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Old 10-19-2019, 06:46 PM   #14
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I have better success with killing spikes first and foremost. Then killing the obvious 7s, anything smaller than a 10 at 3+, and killing 10s with short G4ís at 4+. My personal opinion is you canít have 150Ē+ deer if all you have is a bunch of 8pts running around.


I love an upper 30s to 149Ē 8 point ...
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Old 10-19-2019, 06:49 PM   #15
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I’d take a framey 8 over a basket 10 any and all day. People need to specify what type of 8 points they view as “culls”.
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Old 10-19-2019, 06:55 PM   #16
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Having a serious conversation, that will result in any useful answers, will be difficult on here because there are to many biologists on the GS with greatly varying opinions..
But with that being said, its not rocket science.. It sounds like ya'll are on the right track..

We are a small place but we try our best to make the genetics better by passing a lot of great young deer every year, many that we never see again.. They jump the fence and die.. We also pass big mature(4 year old) 6 points and 7 points and continue to see them year after year(neighbors wont kill them either) never to gain a point.. We do this just to see what they will do.. They NEVER do much but eat and get bigger bodied and meaner.. Some will die this year..
We DO NOT shoot spikes unless they are 3+.

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Old 10-19-2019, 07:00 PM   #17
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What we’ve done which is low fence. Is after the 13 inch rule came out and then the doe seasons. We’ve killed a lot of does to straighten out the buck to doe ratio. We had a lot of does that weren’t getting bred and having fawns. We picked those out and shot them. Spikes were on the target as well. Reason for it. Is we had deer the same age as them that looked better than the spike. So if we knew the deer is on its second set of hard horns and it’s still a spike. He was getting shot and it will remain that way. This has all worked wonders for our place. The only problem is since it’s low fence the deer can’t mature because the people around us kill anything that is legal. 3-4 year old deer is mature at our place just because of that. What I think has really helped the most is the killing the does. Used to the bucks didn’t have to fight or go looking for does because they could just have their pick. Now they gotta go look for them. Prolly get flamed for shooting 2 year old spikes. But what we have done has improved our herd.
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Old 10-19-2019, 07:14 PM   #18
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What weíve done which is low fence. Is after the 13 inch rule came out and then the doe seasons. Weíve killed a lot of does to straighten out the buck to doe ratio. We had a lot of does that werenít getting bred and having fawns. We picked those out and shot them. Spikes were on the target as well. Reason for it. Is we had deer the same age as them that looked better than the spike. So if we knew the deer is on its second set of hard horns and itís still a spike. He was getting shot and it will remain that way. This has all worked wonders for our place. The only problem is since itís low fence the deer canít mature because the people around us kill anything that is legal. 3-4 year old deer is mature at our place just because of that. What I think has really helped the most is the killing the does. Used to the bucks didnít have to fight or go looking for does because they could just have their pick. Now they gotta go look for them. Prolly get flamed for shooting 2 year old spikes. But what we have done has improved our herd.
The problem with this at our place is when the "go look" across the fence BANG!!!
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Old 10-19-2019, 07:17 PM   #19
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Having a serious conversation, that will result in any useful answers, will be difficult on here because there are to many biologists on the GS with greatly varying opinions..
But with that being said, its not rocket science.. It sounds like ya'll are on the right track..

We are a small place but we try our best to make the genetics better by passing a lot of great young deer every year, many that we never see again.. They jump the fence and die.. We also pass big mature(4 year old) 6 points and 7 points and continue to see them year after year(neighbors wont kill them either) never to gain a point.. We do this just to see what they will do.. They NEVER do much but eat and get bigger bodied and meaner.. Some will die this year..
We DO NOT shoot spikes unless they are 3+.
Those older 6 and 7s get smoked on our place haha. I guess we shoulda culled my 165Ē deer since his G2s were short
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Old 10-19-2019, 07:20 PM   #20
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The problem with this at our place is when the "go look" across the fence BANG!!!
Yep I let a nice 10 point walk last year opening morning chasing a doe. Jumps into the neighbors and it wasnít 20 seconds they shot. Woulda been my best deer too but he needed another year. So now if I like a buck I shoot them. I hate to be that way but might as well get the joy out it like the neighbors
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Old 10-19-2019, 07:27 PM   #21
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Two year old spikes are an anomaly...
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Old 10-19-2019, 07:28 PM   #22
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This is a JTeLarkin thread in the making....Have some success and start a debate with the experts
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Old 10-19-2019, 07:31 PM   #23
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Both the high fence ranches I hunt manage very differently than we do on our small low fence place. On our place, we just focus on getting them mature. Iíll let a guest shoot a young deer if itís junk but Iím not worried about culling young deer. When we ďcullĒ itís to remove a buck using the resources and habitat that would better serve other bucks with more potential.

We had a couple ďcullĒ 4 year olds blow up this year.





The high fence ranches cull pretty hard and we shoot low end 8-9 point bucks at at 3. But those ranches have introduced genetics, massive feeding programs with food plots, cottonseed and protein and they grow some real monster youngsters. Why do we need to keep 110 inch 3 year old 8 points around? They never turn in to 170s.


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Old 10-19-2019, 07:35 PM   #24
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2 and 3 yr old spikes?!? I want on this lease!!
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Old 10-19-2019, 07:36 PM   #25
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Quote:
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I love an upper 30s to 149Ē 8 point ...
I bet Cha do

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Old 10-19-2019, 08:08 PM   #26
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This is a JTeLarkin thread in the making....Have some success and start a debate with the experts
Big negative. Iím not changing a thing and this post has nothing to do with my deer. That deer was there and big before I came along.

I figured I could ask a legit question here but I guess not. I have several friends with big ranches that cull heavily and grow some huge deer. When this video was sent to me it was pretty surprising. I wanted some input is all.

And your comment was pretty ****ty. Iím far from an expert. But Iíve had a lot of success over the years and finally put a good deer down. Has zero to do with this topic. Our management wats wonít change.
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Old 10-19-2019, 08:09 PM   #27
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Kicking this old horse again.
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Old 10-19-2019, 08:13 PM   #28
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I’m out. Y’all keep posting dumb crap and looking for tracking dogs. Post a serious hunting topic and get hammered. Good grief
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Old 10-19-2019, 08:21 PM   #29
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I love an upper 30s to 149Ē 8 point ...
Definitely nice. I'm all about 125 ish 8s that are big and mature if I can get 'em. Of course, bigger is better and cooler looking though.
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Old 10-19-2019, 08:21 PM   #30
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Iím out. Yíall keep posting dumb crap and looking for tracking dogs. Post a serious hunting topic and get hammered. Good grief
Too soon. Too soon.......
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Old 10-19-2019, 08:42 PM   #31
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I’m out. Y’all keep posting dumb crap and looking for tracking dogs. Post a serious hunting topic and get hammered. Good grief
You sound like a 3 year old leaving with his ball because he didn't get his way

I posted 2 links and can post 10 more if you like specifically on the subject of so called " culling " LF deer. There has been study after study with many millions spent on said subject.

I specifically sat down personally and talked to Dr.James Kroll about the subject. He said just like all other have stated... you're p*ssing in the wind. And as a matter of fact thay've done the same studies on HF ranches in which it took 10 years of intense culling before the bell curve moved to right. ( Without introduced genetics)

LF genetics can't and won't be altered. If you want to reduce mouths go for it, but that's killing not culling. Call it what it is.
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Old 10-19-2019, 08:54 PM   #32
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Taking mouths off is the only good it does. Hammering low end changes nothing on LF property. Is everyone also hammering the low end does? You can’t even tell on them so the same genetics are there. The time with feed and increased age structure is what you see doing the good
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Old 10-19-2019, 09:04 PM   #33
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I thought culling was what you did when you where just itching to shoot a deer, my neighbors do it a lot!
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Old 10-19-2019, 09:10 PM   #34
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You sound like a 3 year old leaving with his ball because he didn't get his way

I posted 2 links and can post 10 more if you like specifically on the subject of so called " culling " LF deer. There has been study after study with many millions spent on said subject.

I specifically sat down personally and talked to Dr.James Kroll about the subject. He said just like all other have stated... you're p*ssing in the wind. And as a matter of fact thay've done the same studies on HF ranches in which it took 10 years of intense culling before the bell curve moved to right. ( Without introduced genetics)

LF genetics can't and won't be altered. If you want to reduce mouths go for it, but that's killing not culling. Call it what it is.
No I get tired of the BS here. Post something about guns and some moron posts that youíre wrong and his 6.5 creed is the world best. Or his vortex is the best. And a ton of ďbow huntersĒ that have ďbow huntedĒ 10 years and havenít killed a deer yet. But give advice on how to do it. I can on and on. Itís never ending here.

I agree on the part where itís removing mouths. We arenít shooting young deer. We arenít shooting spikes.

The comment about me having some success then questioning experts is what ****** me off. You think I killed that deer on accident? That it was all luck?

Used to be able to come here and discuss hunting topics without the BS. I learned a lot here about bowhunting years ago. Now you canít post much without a ton of BS getting posted. So yeah. Iíll go back to watching and posting classifieds stuff. I donít even hardly go in the gun section anymore because of the stupidity. Think of all the quality guys that posted a lot years ago with great info. Thereís a reason you donít see that anymore. Not saying Iím a big help or a pro in any way. Have a good evening.
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Old 10-19-2019, 09:15 PM   #35
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No I get tired of the BS here. Post something about guns and some moron posts that youíre wrong and his 6.5 creed is the world best. Or his vortex is the best. And a ton of ďbow huntersĒ that have ďbow huntedĒ 10 years and havenít killed a deer yet. But give advice on how to do it. I can on and on. Itís never ending here.

I agree on the part where itís removing mouths. We arenít shooting young deer. We arenít shooting spikes.

The comment about me having some success then questioning experts is what ****** me off. You think I killed that deer on accident? That it was all luck?

Used to be able to come here and discuss hunting topics without the BS. I learned a lot here about bowhunting years ago. Now you canít post much without a ton of BS getting posted. So yeah. Iíll go back to watching and posting classifieds stuff. I donít even hardly go in the gun section anymore because of the stupidity. Think of all the quality guys that posted a lot years ago with great info. Thereís a reason you donít see that anymore. Not saying Iím a big help or a pro in any way. Have a good evening.
Well post more about guns then.... it sounds like you know a ton about them. ( I know they go bang and kill stuff , that's about it) I come here to learn also... if you have knowledge share it, and ignore the idiots.
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Old 10-19-2019, 09:16 PM   #36
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Well post more about guns then.... it sounds like you know a ton about them. ( I know they go bang and kill stuff , that's about it) I come here to learn also... if you have knowledge share it, and ignore the idiots.
Nah. Cuz theyíll argue it. Bout like Iím fixing to do

More of a joke than an argument.

Millions were spent on the Hillary Clinton presidential run too. And millions thought that was the best way!

Had to. Haha
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Old 10-20-2019, 12:18 AM   #37
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If you want to reduce mouths go for it, but that's killing not culling. Call it what it is.
Come on man....That is ticky tack as hell...

When we remove mouths they are deer that have been rejected by our group after a certain age with an emphasis on their antlers. If we just shot any deer that ran through our view to remove said mouths, without any regard for age, or size that would be killing.


cull

1.
vn remove something that has been rejected
2.
v look for and gather


Full Definitions of cull
1v remove something that has been rejected
cull the sick members of the herd”
Type of: get rid of, remove dispose of


n. the person or thing that is rejected or set aside as inferior in quality

Synonyms:reject Type of: deciding, decision making
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Old 10-20-2019, 12:23 AM   #38
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Come on man....That is ticky tack as hell...

When we remove mouths they are deer that have been rejected by our group after a certain age with an emphasis on their antlers. If we just shot any deer that ran through our view to remove said mouths, without any regard for age, or size that would be killing.


cull

1.
vn remove something that has been rejected
2.
v look for and gather


Full Definitions of cull
1v remove something that has been rejected
ďcull the sick members of the herdĒ
Type of: get rid of, remove dispose of


n. the person or thing that is rejected or set aside as inferior in quality

Synonyms:reject Type of: deciding, decision making
So what you're doing is culling low fence deer based on Antler Quality. Deer that your group has " rejected " . I'd imagine they have unwanted characteristics.

It's already been proven your method is useless, but I'm sure in your mind you believe you're doing good. . Keep killing

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Old 10-20-2019, 12:34 AM   #39
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So what you're doing is culling low fence deer based on Antler Quality. Deer that your group has " rejected " . I'd imagine they have unwanted characteristics.

It's already been proven your method is useless, but I'm sure in your mind you believe you're doing good. . Keep killing

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Pretend I am writing this in crayon so you can keep up...."in your mind"..

We are culling mature deer to remove mouths.....and we chose them by not shooting the deer with better traits at 4 and 5 so they can get even older and hopefully bigger.... Those we shoot have been selected and rejected by our group...aka culled and of course, killed.

We don't do it under the premise of thinking we are going to change the overall genetics which is where culling fails based on those very studies. (I can understand you confusing this) We use it as a guide to remove deer so the deer with better traits can have a better resources. Hope that is simple enough..

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Old 10-20-2019, 12:36 AM   #40
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I am not on a lease and never will be again. I am not a wildlife biologist and probably only marginally smart....unlike many around these parts...….but low fence or high fence I can guarantee you kill an inferior animal and he will never breed again. I don't care what Doctor dumbazz says. Deer have a range.....shoot deer that you don't care for within that range and it will make a difference over time. PERIOD...…...the small deer in the Hill Country have no impact in South Texas because that don't get down that way....
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Old 10-20-2019, 12:42 AM   #41
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Pretend I am writing this in crayon so you can keep up...."in your mind"..

We are culling mature deer to remove mouths.....and we chose them by not shooting the deer with better traits at 4 and 5 so they can get even older and hopefully bigger.... Those we shoot have been rejected by our group.


We don't do it under the premise of thinking we are going to change the overall genetics which is where culling fails based on those very studies. (I can understand you confusing this) We use it as a guide to remove deer so the deer with better traits can have a better resources. Hope that is simple enough..
How about I slow it down for you.... you are not culling, culling in wild life management emphasizes you're killing deer to improve your genetic makeup.

It has nothing to do with numbers. You're killing not culling. Do I need to send you a few managment 101 books on recording, because it seems your interpretation skills are lacking.

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Old 10-20-2019, 12:49 AM   #42
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Hunt In: Wilbarger county U.S.A.
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We have nothing but low fences for atleast 20-40 miles in every direction from us. We let the kids and guest whack any 8s,9s they want.. It has not made one bit of difference in the quality or quantity of those deer from year to year. We are now on year 14.
We have a ton of 130-140 inch 10 points ever year. You can't recognize them from year to year to see how they progress. We don't shoot any of those unless they are 6-7.

I really think mother nature does a fine job at culling.
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Old 10-20-2019, 12:52 AM   #43
Smart
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How about I slow it down for you.... you are not culling, culling in wild life management emphasizes you're killing deer to improve your genetic makeup.

It has nothing to do with numbers. You're killing not culling. Do I need to send you a few managment 101 books on recording, because it seems your interpretation skills are lacking.

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Horse****.....that's a Cotulla cowboy coffee shop generalization to make your ticky tacky statement above to Trophy8 seem like it has some merit...


We use culling in the general sense of the term.. The deer biologists in a box types took a long time term and placed it in their handy dandy tool box vernacular and now want to **** up a rope and get butthurt when folks use the term any other way.... As if its a badge of honor and makes them better deeer stewards. It doesn't matter at ALL in the grand schemes of things W-T-F we or anybody calls it. It's a **** word by its definition not Jimmy Jimbob DilleyCowboy's definition or because TTHA says it is...

Last edited by Smart; 10-20-2019 at 12:55 AM.
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Old 10-20-2019, 12:54 AM   #44
ttaxidermy
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You sound like a 3 year old leaving with his ball because he didn't get his way

I posted 2 links and can post 10 more if you like specifically on the subject of so called " culling " LF deer. There has been study after study with many millions spent on said subject.

I specifically sat down personally and talked to Dr.James Kroll about the subject. He said just like all other have stated... you're p*ssing in the wind. And as a matter of fact thay've done the same studies on HF ranches in which it took 10 years of intense culling before the bell curve moved to right. ( Without introduced genetics)

LF genetics can't and won't be altered. If you want to reduce mouths go for it, but that's killing not culling. Call it what it is.
Dr. Kroll??? You mean the "Oat is not a Oat" the "Buck Forage Oat" guy??
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Old 10-20-2019, 12:55 AM   #45
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Horse****.....that's a Cotulla cowboy coffee shop generalization to make your ticky tacky statement above to Trophy8 seem like it has some merit...


We use culling in the general sense of the term.. The deer biologists in a box types took a long time term and placed it in their handy dandy tool box vernacular and now want to **** up a rope and get butthurt when folks use the term any other way.... As if its a badge of honor. It doesn't matter at ALL in the grand schemes of things W-T-F we or anybody calls it. It's a **** word by its definition..
LMAO!!! Them Astros won too baby..... you mad bro? keep drinking... hehe

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Old 10-20-2019, 12:56 AM   #46
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Dr. Kroll??? You mean the "Oat is not a Oat" the "Buck Forage Oat" guy??
Oh chut up!

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Old 10-20-2019, 12:56 AM   #47
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LMAO!!! Them Astros won too baby..... you mad bro? keep drinking... hehe

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Ice water for me....
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Old 10-20-2019, 01:00 AM   #48
Abcdj
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All this is entertaining. To bad trophy8 culled himself out of his own thread way to early
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Old 10-20-2019, 01:01 AM   #49
ttaxidermy
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One thing cannot be argued by anyone and that is that shooting great, genetically inclined, young bucks will keep you from killing great, genetically inclined old bucks because there wont be many if any.. Much like 5-6 years after a severe drought that kills most of or all of that years fawns.. The gap in that buck age group will not go unnoticed.. Like I said, its not rocket science..
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Old 10-20-2019, 01:03 AM   #50
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All this is entertaining. To bad trophy8 culled himself out of his own thread way to early
I agree, its been fun but I'm out... good night.... go 'stros! !
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