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Old 01-09-2020, 08:12 AM   #51
Chadhender
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Looks like you missed this...

The 30 Day Test
If your new vehicle has been out of service for repair due to a defect(s) that substantially impairs the use or market value of the vehicle due to defects covered by the warranty for a total of 30 or more days during the first 24 months or 24,000 miles, and the problem still exists. If no comparable loaner vehicle was provided to you by the dealer during this time period, you pass the test.
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Old 01-09-2020, 08:23 AM   #52
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While I agree that this is a ridiculous issue and should be covered under warranty, my advice is to forget Ford and go aftermarket. I have a '19 F250 and I started noticing extra "bounce" in my steering at about 18k miles and had full blown death wobble at 21k miles with my two year old in the truck with me. I cringe at the thought of if my wife had been driving the truck with both kids in it cause it may have turned out very different. I've done and driven a lot of stupid things and that's probably the worst feelings I've had behind the steering wheel.

I talked to my local dealer and wasn't interested in them replacing the factory stabilizer with another one that "should be from a different manufacturer". I replaced the factory stabilizer with a Fox 985-24-001. Haven't had the death wobble again in another 3-4k miles and the steering response is significantly tighter. When I notice the bouncy steering again I'll either replace the shock again, go to a dual steering stabilizer or more realistically sell the truck. It is no doubt the steering stabilizer causing the problem. When I removed my factory one I could pull/push it about an inch in either direction with no resistance whatsoever.
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Old 01-09-2020, 08:32 AM   #53
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If you bring it too me at 4wp 18 in Houston I can tell you whatís wrong. We fix them everyday. Itís a very common issue.


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Old 01-09-2020, 08:33 AM   #54
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I have a 2012 F-250 4x4 with the PSD, 20" factory rims, MT tires at 50 psi. My truck has 150k miles. Suspension is bone stock (Have not replaced anything in the front end yet) except for replacing shocks that were blown for 9 months. Both before and after the new shocks, I've never had death wobble. I drive the same stretch of road OP drives.

There is more variables to the problem than just a castor angle. According to a lot of folks on this thread, I should have had it. My personal opinion, it happens due to two causes. 1) Guys running factory 18" rims that they run with low tire pressures, 2) guys who put giant tires on their truck with the cheapest lift they can find. It also doesn't help that Ford puts the absolute ****tiest shocks they can find from the bargain bin on their trucks. Even the FX-4 shocks are complete garbage. The shock shaft diameter is the same as most SUV's that weigh half of a Superduty.
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Old 01-09-2020, 08:36 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muzzlebrake View Post
Thanks for the info. Looks like I will be ordering it here pretty quick.
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Old 01-09-2020, 08:38 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale Moser View Post
It is absolutely laughable that a company the size of FoMoCo can't eliminate a problem known as "death wobble" on a $75k dollar truck.



At least they didn't take a bail out!
I have some ocean front for sale in Oklahoma I'll make you a good deal on.
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Old 01-09-2020, 08:38 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WItoTX View Post
I have a 2012 F-250 4x4 with the PSD, 20" factory rims, MT tires at 50 psi. My truck has 150k miles. Suspension is bone stock (Have not replaced anything in the front end yet) except for replacing shocks that were blown for 9 months. Both before and after the new shocks, I've never had death wobble. I drive the same stretch of road OP drives.

There is more variables to the problem than just a castor angle. According to a lot of folks on this thread, I should have had it. My personal opinion, it happens due to two causes. 1) Guys running factory 18" rims that they run with low tire pressures, 2) guys who put giant tires on their truck with the cheapest lift they can find. It also doesn't help that Ford puts the absolute ****tiest shocks they can find from the bargain bin on their trucks. Even the FX-4 shocks are complete garbage. The shock shaft diameter is the same as most SUV's that weigh half of a Superduty.
I don't fit either category.

Mark called yesterday and they've been given authorization to replace with an aftermarket part to get me back on the road. Thanks Mark!
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Old 01-09-2020, 08:46 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by bowhuntertex View Post
Thanks for the info. Looks like I will be ordering it here pretty quick.


Why add caster from the bottom of the radius arm when you can just add the cams at the ball joint? They come stock with either a .12 or .25 +or - just add a degree and a half on both sides and see how it drives. They are making this too complicated.


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Old 01-09-2020, 08:48 AM   #59
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My 2018 F250 did the death wobble at about 18000 miles. I took it in and referenced TSB 18-2268 concerning the problem. My truck was fixed within a couple of days. I haven't had the issue since the repair, but I'm a little leery about it.
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Old 01-09-2020, 08:50 AM   #60
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Also is the truck lifted or stock? I donít feel like digging through all the post. If lifted you should be running the stock dampener with a duel front stabilizer on tires 35 and larger. If stock With tires under 33. Use Stock stabilizer. If the stabilizer is upgraded and the problem still is there. It can be coming from the tires no matter how old they are. Put the stock tires back on and see if the problem goes away.


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Old 01-09-2020, 08:53 AM   #61
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Also. . For all ford straight axles that have a ball joint at the track bar. It has to be replaced with the oem ball joint. All others ( moog) will have too much play and the problem will still be there. Also replace the bushing at the frame in the track bar. These are the most common parts.


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Old 01-09-2020, 08:57 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WItoTX View Post
I have a 2012 F-250 4x4 with the PSD, 20" factory rims, MT tires at 50 psi. My truck has 150k miles. Suspension is bone stock (Have not replaced anything in the front end yet) except for replacing shocks that were blown for 9 months. Both before and after the new shocks, I've never had death wobble. I drive the same stretch of road OP drives.

There is more variables to the problem than just a castor angle. According to a lot of folks on this thread, I should have had it. My personal opinion, it happens due to two causes. 1) Guys running factory 18" rims that they run with low tire pressures, 2) guys who put giant tires on their truck with the cheapest lift they can find. It also doesn't help that Ford puts the absolute ****tiest shocks they can find from the bargain bin on their trucks. Even the FX-4 shocks are complete garbage. The shock shaft diameter is the same as most SUV's that weigh half of a Superduty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael View Post
I don't fit either category.

Mark called yesterday and they've been given authorization to replace with an aftermarket part to get me back on the road. Thanks Mark!
Same for me, I don't fit either category. All the suspension on my truck was 100% factory prior to the death wobble. Lariat, FX4 w/20" rims. Even still had the factory tires. A friend mind just bought a used 2019 identical to mine except it has replacement bumpers. He got death wobble on the way home in it.
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Old 01-09-2020, 09:00 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael View Post
I don't fit either category.

Mark called yesterday and they've been given authorization to replace with an aftermarket part to get me back on the road. Thanks Mark!
You are lucky to have some clout in social media, seems most of us who have been dealing with the same service department’s
And have gotten “ your tires are un balance,you need less pressure in your tires, steering stabilizer is bad or even “ there’s a nut loose behind the steering wheel “
It’s good to hear a service manager finally say uncle “ this guy reaches lots of ford SD drivers and if we can get one fixed this is the one we need “
Glad to hear that at least one person can get some satisfaction
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Old 01-09-2020, 09:01 AM   #64
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Sucks man!! Iím ready to pull the trigger on a new body style Super Duty but this one issue is holding me back
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Old 01-09-2020, 09:05 AM   #65
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I had it in my 08 F250. I got the BD Diesel adjustable track bar and have not had a problem since. As mentioned before, go aftermarket for sure.
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Old 01-09-2020, 09:11 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Fordnandez View Post
I had it in my 08 F250. I got the BD Diesel adjustable track bar and have not had a problem since. As mentioned before, go aftermarket for sure.


Thatís a good track bar.


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Old 01-09-2020, 09:15 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by dmack View Post
Thatís a good track bar.


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I have done two of my buddies trucks as well and have not had the issue since.
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Old 01-09-2020, 09:19 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Fordnandez View Post
I have done two of my buddies trucks as well and have not had the issue since.


I think it only fits lifted trucks though.


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Old 01-09-2020, 09:19 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Bradical BH View Post
Death wobble is a problem for vehicles with a solid front axel hence not an F150 for the gentlemen asking. Further more it is caused by numerous problems in the suspension from worn parts to incorrect geometry. Unfortunately a steering stabilizer can neither cause nor fix death wobble. Itís nothing more than a shock or dampener for the steering linkage just like a shock or strut. Hopefully theyíre not using this a ďfixĒ for what sounds like a widespread problem.
My thought's also, a dampner shock helps hide the problem for a little while. My jeep I replaced a single bolt on the track bar to a bigger size than factory and never had another problem yet.
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Old 01-09-2020, 09:25 AM   #70
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Might have to get aftermarket upgraded parts for the front suspension to fix it. Might talk company into paying for it. Or have company invoke lemon law and proceed that way.

When my '04 dodge developed the DW all I did was replace all my front suspension myself and that was the end of it.
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Old 01-09-2020, 09:40 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael View Post
I don't fit either category.

Mark called yesterday and they've been given authorization to replace with an aftermarket part to get me back on the road. Thanks Mark!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zac View Post
Same for me, I don't fit either category. All the suspension on my truck was 100% factory prior to the death wobble. Lariat, FX4 w/20" rims. Even still had the factory tires. A friend mind just bought a used 2019 identical to mine except it has replacement bumpers. He got death wobble on the way home in it.
Same question for both of you, what PSI were your tires at?

As for your friend, he added weight to the front that was not in the original design for those crappy shocks. Those shocks are not meant to handle that extra weight (And it's a LOT with replacement bumpers). Those shocks are barely fit for a small SUV.

To be clear, I am not doubting either of you. I am genuinely interested as a matter of another data-point. It's literally the first time I've heard of the factory 20" rim, no offset, with stock size tires getting the DW.
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Old 01-09-2020, 09:43 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pilar View Post
You are lucky to have some clout in social media, seems most of us who have been dealing with the same service department’s
And have gotten “ your tires are un balance,you need less pressure in your tires, steering stabilizer is bad or even “ there’s a nut loose behind the steering wheel “
It’s good to hear a service manager finally say uncle “ this guy reaches lots of ford SD drivers and if we can get one fixed this is the one we need “
Glad to hear that at least one person can get some satisfaction
I'm pretty sure it was a simple coincidence that Mark got the authorization around the time I posted. If it was "clout", I should have played that card sooner!

It is great having somebody I know and trust to keep me updated on it, though.
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Old 01-09-2020, 09:44 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by WItoTX View Post
Same question for both of you, what PSI were your tires at?



As for your friend, he added weight to the front that was not in the original design for those crappy shocks. Those shocks are not meant to handle that extra weight (And it's a LOT with replacement bumpers). Those shocks are barely fit for a small SUV.



To be clear, I am not doubting either of you. I am genuinely interested as a matter of another data-point. It's literally the first time I've heard of the factory 20" rim, no offset, with stock size tires getting the DW.


I have. Itís how the tire wears. Thatís why when you rotate it still keeps happening. Itís rare but if all parts are in good shape with no movement. Put another set of tires on and I bet it stops. I have had to warranty out tires due this.


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Old 01-09-2020, 10:00 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by WItoTX View Post
Same question for both of you, what PSI were your tires at?

As for your friend, he added weight to the front that was not in the original design for those crappy shocks. Those shocks are not meant to handle that extra weight (And it's a LOT with replacement bumpers). Those shocks are barely fit for a small SUV.

To be clear, I am not doubting either of you. I am genuinely interested as a matter of another data-point. It's literally the first time I've heard of the factory 20" rim, no offset, with stock size tires getting the DW.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmack View Post
I have. It’s how the tire wears. That’s why when you rotate it still keeps happening. It’s rare but if all parts are in good shape with no movement. Put another set of tires on and I bet it stops. I have had to warranty out tires due this.


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I run my tires around 65-70psi. Yes, his was not as factory as mine but I also don't think his front bumper caused his death wobble. Ranchhands are about the heaviest replacement available and they are under 300 lbs for this truck. A relatively small number in the big picture for what this truck is rated for and much less than something like a snow plow. And I'm aware the "snow plow" package from Ford has +1 springs so it's slightly different and not a great comparison.

Mine has stopped with a new steering stabilizer. I am not suggesting the steering stabilizer is the cause. I assume the cause is a byproduct of the SFA system where both tires are tied together with a solid bar (I've been a GM guy previously so my SFA knowledge is limited). But it seems like all SFA systems experience death wobble at some point. I will say confidently that my factory stabilizer shock had failed and that was the point that I experienced death wobble in my truck. Letting the stabilizer sit for a few seconds I could easily move it an inch in either direction by hand. That lack of initial resistance is what I think allowed my truck to start shaking uncontrollably when going over specific bumps.


I just noticed in my first post I said the stabilizer is causing the problem. Poor wording, maybe I should've said furthering or not preventing. At any rate a new steering stabilizer has fixed my problems for the last several thousand miles.

Last edited by Zac; 01-09-2020 at 10:10 AM. Reason: Couldn't edit first post so I added something to this one.
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Old 01-09-2020, 10:17 AM   #75
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He is correct. If a stabilizer has any soft spots. As he described in the play action of an inch or two. Is very bad. It needs to be replaced. That small amount will give the truck just enough motion to get out of control. It only takes a quarter of an inch to get it started in the wobble. Like a worn track bar ball joint. And the stabilizer does not have too be leaking for this too happen. The new JL Jeep has a recall on their stabilizers just for this reason. And on a side not. The weight of the bumper didnít cause the issue. I bet it helped the truck more then hurting it. By lowering it down a little. Just like you are more likely to have the DW when towing. As it lifts the front of the truck higher and takes even more caster away.


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Old 01-09-2020, 10:28 AM   #76
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You should sign up for the lawsuit lol.

https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-...-truck-defect/
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Old 01-09-2020, 10:32 AM   #77
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Glad to see you posting on this dmack. I have a 17 f250 (only 25K miles). Haven't had the issue yet. But I'm sure it will happen right after my warranty goes out at 36k. I'll come see you!
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Old 01-09-2020, 10:37 AM   #78
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Glad to see you posting on this dmack. I have a 17 f250 (only 25K miles). Haven't had the issue yet. But I'm sure it will happen right after my warranty goes out at 36k. I'll come see you!


Hey. How you been? I donít get on here that much anymore. But going to try more.


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Old 01-09-2020, 10:51 AM   #79
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Last edited by dmack; 01-09-2020 at 10:56 AM.
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Old 01-09-2020, 10:59 AM   #80
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I run my tires around 65-70psi. Yes, his was not as factory as mine but I also don't think his front bumper caused his death wobble. Ranchhands are about the heaviest replacement available and they are under 300 lbs for this truck. A relatively small number in the big picture for what this truck is rated for and much less than something like a snow plow. And I'm aware the "snow plow" package from Ford has +1 springs so it's slightly different and not a great comparison.

Mine has stopped with a new steering stabilizer. I am not suggesting the steering stabilizer is the cause. I assume the cause is a byproduct of the SFA system where both tires are tied together with a solid bar (I've been a GM guy previously so my SFA knowledge is limited). But it seems like all SFA systems experience death wobble at some point. I will say confidently that my factory stabilizer shock had failed and that was the point that I experienced death wobble in my truck. Letting the stabilizer sit for a few seconds I could easily move it an inch in either direction by hand. That lack of initial resistance is what I think allowed my truck to start shaking uncontrollably when going over specific bumps.


I just noticed in my first post I said the stabilizer is causing the problem. Poor wording, maybe I should've said furthering or not preventing. At any rate a new steering stabilizer has fixed my problems for the last several thousand miles.
I hear you, and the stabilizer is definitely a part of the issue too. Are you running 18" rims?

3/4 ton trucks have gotten lighter duty over the years as more guys use them for their daily driver. And I think companies like Ford and Dodge have responded by putting lighter shocks, to make them ride nicer.

In general, the front axle of GM trucks are far shorter than SFA's. That is why they don' get the DW. If you look at the unsprung weight on an SFA, it crazy DW doesn't happen more. You have a 60-70 lb tire, at the end of a steel rod (Axle), encased in a steel housing, with steel steering linkages and sway bars, all of which are mounted to the axle, not the frame. The geometry and the forces developed are massive relative to an IFS set up.
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Old 01-09-2020, 11:56 AM   #81
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Michael, I think you should rip this SAC guy a new one. I mean, just look at his username. You know he's got to be a piece of work!


Did SAC ever learn to throw washers?


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Old 01-09-2020, 12:06 PM   #82
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I don't fit either category.



Mark called yesterday and they've been given authorization to replace with an aftermarket part to get me back on the road. Thanks Mark!


Michael do you have 18Ē rims with the Kevlar tires?

I also have a thread on TBH about same issue except mine happened at 4000 miles.


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Old 01-09-2020, 01:46 PM   #83
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I think it only fits lifted trucks though.


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The ones I did were leveled. I think there was enough adjustment to do it on a stock suspension truck.
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Old 01-09-2020, 02:35 PM   #84
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The ones I did were leveled. I think there was enough adjustment to do it on a stock suspension truck.
Does the problem becomes more prevalent if you install leveling kit on the front? I bought a Max Racing 2" Leveling Kit for my 2019 F350, but if it's precursor to the death-wobble, I'll send it back.
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Old 01-09-2020, 02:57 PM   #85
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Does the problem becomes more prevalent if you install leveling kit on the front? I bought a Max Racing 2" Leveling Kit for my 2019 F350, but if it's precursor to the death-wobble, I'll send it back.


There is no way of knowing if or when this can happen. But with any lift you are removing caster from the truck. And increasing the chances of it coming on.


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Old 01-09-2020, 03:18 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by dmack View Post
There is no way of knowing if or when this can happen. But with any lift you are removing caster from the truck. And increasing the chances of it coming on.


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Not true with the Rough Country 3" with radius arm drop brackets is it?
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Old 01-09-2020, 04:04 PM   #87
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Not true with the Rough Country 3" with radius arm drop brackets is it?


Yes. The arms correct the caster and the geometry back into the truck. But that is still no guaranty that it will not get the DW. If that was the case stock trucks would not get them. But I always recommend dropping the arms. Itís the best way to do the job and have it driving its best.


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Old 01-09-2020, 04:08 PM   #88
dmack
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Listen guys. If I had an F250 I would lift it. I would not let this worry me. I have a lifted JL. If you do the job right and with the best components. You should be fine. Replace worn out parts. And cross that bridge when it happens. Most trucks never have the issue. So take the odds.


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Old 01-09-2020, 06:36 PM   #89
muzzlebrake
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If you think the DW on the front of Fords is bad just wait until they give you this. https://www.foxnews.com/auto/fords-f...-system-trucks

Taking it up the rear brings on a whole new meaning.
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Old 01-09-2020, 06:48 PM   #90
dmack
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Default Ford Death Wobble & Warranty - Frustrating

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Originally Posted by muzzlebrake View Post
If you think the DW on the front of Fords is bad just wait until they give you this. https://www.foxnews.com/auto/fords-f...-system-trucks



Taking it up the rear brings on a whole new meaning.


Remember when Chevy came out with that. What a joke that was.


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Old 01-09-2020, 07:02 PM   #91
Grits
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So if I have a chance to buy a 2016 F250 4x4 King Ranch I should run as fast and as far away as I can from what I am reading on this thread, right?
Grits
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Old 01-09-2020, 07:07 PM   #92
Rubi513
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grits View Post
So if I have a chance to buy a 2016 F250 4x4 King Ranch I should run as fast and as far away as I can from what I am reading on this thread, right?
Grits
Lol! No.
Right at 70k on my 16. Not a lick of trouble on anything. BIL has 140k plus and never any trouble either.
I honestly don’t know of anyone personally that has had dw on their Ford.
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Old 01-09-2020, 07:13 PM   #93
Wakehunter
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I agree with some of the others above, aftermarket has resolved the death wobble for my 2007 dodge 3500. I began experiencing the problem around 150,000 miles. Stock parts just don’t have the durability to stand up to the weight of these trucks. I had to replace the ball joints (Moog), u joints (Moog), steering linkage (Moog) leveling kit (bilstein) & shock absorbers (bilstein) to Prevent the slack in the front end of my truck. The cost was about 3k. The parts of these heavy trucks are not made to last forever and no one should expect them to.
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Old 01-09-2020, 07:19 PM   #94
coach51
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2019 F250. 10,000 miles with the DW. Dealership can't even get parts to work on it.
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Old 01-09-2020, 07:52 PM   #95
pilar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grits View Post
So if I have a chance to buy a 2016 F250 4x4 King Ranch I should run as fast and as far away as I can from what I am reading on this thread, right?
Grits
No , if the price is right and you have the money to get it to a specialty shop to have good front component inspection itís probably a good truck, way way way overpriced
As all fords are, but if you donít mind or care about over paying for it
Side note I have a major issue with our local ford dealership ( ford of boerne) having a take it or leave it attitude and a horrible reputation on using deceptive financing
Also I would not buy a f250 diesel because I just cannot believe they would put a 425 hp / 900+ feet of torque in a light duty truck
That is rated as a 3/4 ton
I would stick with a 1 ton ( any brand)
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Old 01-09-2020, 08:13 PM   #96
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I have driven Fords for almost 25 years and never had a problem with the death wobble. Had my first experience around Thanksgiving on my 2012 with 85k. It needed shocks so I traded for a 2020.
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Old 01-09-2020, 09:06 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Tbar View Post
I have driven Fords for almost 25 years and never had a problem with the death wobble. Had my first experience around Thanksgiving on my 2012 with 85k. It needed shocks so I traded for a 2020.
Dang I wish ford would hire me to be a truck tester, as ever single super duty we have had since 2007 has gotten DW
No level kits or lifts, stock tires, just high way and ranch roads
I don’t work in a office or some chemical plant, or use a truck as a grocery getter or mall crawl
Don’t ever abuse them just use them to work with and pull a 25 foot power catamaran when I can get time
IMO our 3/4 and 1 ton trucks went south when they quit putting 16 inch rims and went to 18 and 20’s
My trucks always had 235/85/16 mainly with discount tire pathfinder tires or bfg a/t even our expedition’s got 200,000 + miles with out the DW on 16’s

Last edited by pilar; 01-09-2020 at 09:08 PM.
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Old 01-09-2020, 09:44 PM   #98
DaveC
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My 2011 has never had it (nock on wood) at 150,*** miles now.
Owned it since new, all stock minus the diet.

This thread makes me leary on trading it in on a new one as I currently have planned sometime mid year after the 10 speeds to get some real world use on them..
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Old 01-09-2020, 10:01 PM   #99
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I have owned 5 coil sprung solid axle Superduty trucks. I have run each between 150,000 and 200,000 miles and only the 2015 every showed any signs of wanting to wobble, with those signs (@35,000 miles) the aftermarket shop found a worn trackbar ball joint and replaced it with a Moog joint. I then added dual steering stabilizers and ran it to 145,000 with no issue. It was lifted 2.5Ē running 35ís

2017 is lifted 3Ē with lift that addresses castor
, dual steering stabilizers and running 36.5Ē tires, bumping 65,000 with no issue.

Non of the things I just mentioned are part of the dealers warranty ďfixĒ. Simply replacing the stock stabilizer will only temporarily mask the problem.
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Old 01-09-2020, 10:16 PM   #100
Tommy1123
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2019 350 dually with almost 27000 miles. Completely stock. Iíve had DW twice and both were right after I hit a small bump in the road driving around 60 mph.
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