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Old 05-22-2020, 12:49 PM   #51
El General
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Originally Posted by kyle1974 View Post
The problem is that CCA is now a national organization, and it's full of northern liberals.
The statement above is not true. CCA Texas and National headquarters is in Houston in the same building. The same people that run CCA Texas run CCA National. They are all recreational anglers. The chairman of CCA National is a long time CCA Texas state board member and management committee member from San Antonio.

CCA National's executive director is from Houston and a former fishing guide and current recreational angler.

CCA Texas executive director is from Houston and a recreational angler.

CCA does not represent or advocate for the commercial fishing industry.

CCA's influence over Texas Parks and Wildlife is wildly overstated on this thread.

Last edited by El General; 05-22-2020 at 01:05 PM.
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Old 05-22-2020, 12:53 PM   #52
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Good
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Old 05-22-2020, 01:21 PM   #53
El General
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TPWD's presentation from the flounder scoping meetings is attached for anyone curious on the data used to come up with the proposals. I'd note the last two pages where a November and December closure along with an increased size limit shows a projected 58-60% increase in spawning biomass.

There are many contributing problems to flounder numbers, but the biggest problem is gulf water temperatures. Flounder are very susceptible to sea water temperatures getting out of a small range in the first three weeks.

Post metamorphisis temps that are in the ideal range result in a 50-50 distribution between males and females. Seawater temperature that are too warm lead to mostly male fish (up to 94% of the fish being male). Male fish grow to 10-12" and spend most of their life in the gulf.

The fish you catch in the bay are female fish.
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File Type: pdf TPWD Southern Flounder Mgmt Proposals.pdf (1,017.6 KB, 19 views)
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Old 05-22-2020, 01:29 PM   #54
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And, for those advocating game fish status for flounder, TPWD does not have the authority to do that. That has to be done by passing a bill through the Texas legislature.
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Old 05-22-2020, 01:44 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by jds247 View Post
I'm sure they are but the limit will still be more than Texas limits..
Apples to oranges there bud... you can't fairly compare bag limits until you have the same populations of fish in each state.
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Old 05-22-2020, 01:46 PM   #56
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Default New flounder Regulations

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Originally Posted by El General View Post
The statement above is not true. CCA Texas and National headquarters is in Houston in the same building. The same people that run CCA Texas run CCA National. They are all recreational anglers. The chairman of CCA National is a long time CCA Texas state board member and management committee member from San Antonio.

CCA National's executive director is from Houston and a former fishing guide and current recreational angler.

CCA Texas executive director is from Houston and a recreational angler.

CCA does not represent or advocate for the commercial fishing industry.

CCA's influence over Texas Parks and Wildlife is wildly overstated on this thread.

Maybe I’m wrong about where they’re from but I’ve been to enough scoping meetings to hear the same “killing the last buffalo” mantra. I also know people from Texas that are hardcore left associated with CCA, like the remnants of the wade paddle and pole group.

As for CCA not influencing TPW... come on man. They are THE main influence. They picked up the “just keep 5” lingo several years back and pushed it relentlessly to TPW. Even though TPW state’s the surveys didn’t dictate the limit should be lowered, they lowered it based on public opinion, mostly derived from CCA voices.

Let’s not even go into the ironic hypocrisy of the conservation association sponsoring the biggest big trout killing tournament in the United States.

Last edited by kyle1974; 05-22-2020 at 02:00 PM.
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Old 05-22-2020, 01:48 PM   #57
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Thank you for posting that El General.

If you look at those retention numbers and don't come to the conclusion that something dramatic needs to be done then you need to seriously reassess your interests as a sportsman.

I like to fish for flounder as much as the next guy and love a good stuffed flounder. But even in my relatively limited time fishing on the gulf coast I have seen decline in the numbers and size of flounder being caught.

Good stewardship can and will preserve this resource.
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Old 05-22-2020, 01:52 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by kyle1974 View Post
Maybe I’m wrong about where they’re from but I’ve been to enough scoping meetings to hear the same “killing the last buffalo” mantra. I also know people from Texas that are hardcore left associated with CCA, like the tenants of the wade paddle and pole group.
The wade paddle and pole guys are pretty anti CCA, or at least the ones I knew were. They all thought CCA was way too conservative. The people that run CCA at the state and national level in Texas are all conservative. I know them personally. I am sure there are people on local chapters that aren't conservative, but their role is fund raising, not policy.
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Old 05-22-2020, 01:53 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by kyle1974 View Post
Maybe I’m wrong about where they’re from but I’ve been to enough scoping meetings to hear the same “killing the last buffalo” mantra. I also know people from Texas that are hardcore left associated with CCA, like the tenants of the wade paddle and pole group.

As for CCA not influencing TPW... come on man. They are THE main influence. They picked up the “just keep 5” lingo several years back and pushed it relentlessly to TPW. Even though TPW state’s the surveys didn’t dictate the limit should be lowered, they lowered it based on public opinion, mostly derived from CCA voices.
The tail doesn't wag the dog. CCA has never gotten TPWD to do anything that it didn't want to do.
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Old 05-22-2020, 02:05 PM   #60
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Then what’s their purpose if they can’t influence the regulatory agency that’s aligned with their area of focus?
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Old 05-22-2020, 02:27 PM   #61
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Then what’s their purpose if they can’t influence the regulatory agency that’s aligned with their area of focus?
TPWD and CCA agree on most, if not all, issues from the recreational anglers perspective. They have the same goals in regards to recreational fisheries.

CCA can publicize, lobby, and advocate in a way that TPWD employees can't.

For instance, if TPWD biologists decided that the only solution to the flounder problem was to declare it a gamefish, they can present the data and their recommendation to the TPW commission, who then would have to find a congressman to support the bill and try to push it through the legislature. They can't advocate for that in the public. CCA can actively lobby congressman for support, hearings, votes, etc.

Recently, CCA voiced opposition to the Port of Corpus Christi's proposed channel deepening project. These type of bureaucracies are much more likely to be someone that CCA butts heads with than TPWD. This is the kind of issue that TPWD can't publicly advocate for or against.

CCA and TPWD want the same thing for recreational fisherman, more fish to catch now and in the future. That is why they are nearly always aligned.
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Old 05-22-2020, 03:20 PM   #62
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The tail doesn't wag the dog. CCA has never gotten TPWD to do anything that it didn't want to do.
Whatever you say!
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Old 05-22-2020, 03:56 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by El General View Post
TPWD and CCA agree on most, if not all, issues from the recreational anglers perspective. They have the same goals in regards to recreational fisheries.

CCA can publicize, lobby, and advocate in a way that TPWD employees can't.

For instance, if TPWD biologists decided that the only solution to the flounder problem was to declare it a gamefish, they can present the data and their recommendation to the TPW commission, who then would have to find a congressman to support the bill and try to push it through the legislature. They can't advocate for that in the public. CCA can actively lobby congressman for support, hearings, votes, etc.

Recently, CCA voiced opposition to the Port of Corpus Christi's proposed channel deepening project. These type of bureaucracies are much more likely to be someone that CCA butts heads with than TPWD. This is the kind of issue that TPWD can't publicly advocate for or against.

CCA and TPWD want the same thing for recreational fisherman, more fish to catch now and in the future. That is why they are nearly always aligned.

So CCA is a PAC targeting Bureaucrats.
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Old 05-22-2020, 04:53 PM   #64
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So CCA is a PAC targeting Bureaucrats.
Lobbying is one of the things they do, but I wouldn’t call them a PAC targeting bureaucrats.

Last edited by El General; 05-22-2020 at 04:57 PM.
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Old 05-22-2020, 05:06 PM   #65
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The tail doesn't wag the dog. CCA has never gotten TPWD to do anything that it didn't want to do.
You have some accurate knowledge
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Old 05-22-2020, 05:11 PM   #66
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Apples to oranges there bud... you can't fairly compare bag limits until you have the same populations of fish in each state.
I can tell you aren't familiar with my part of the state.. i fish sabine lake.. one side is Texas and the other Louisiana.. same water same 2 rivers feed it but I can keep more fish by launching 20 min from the house vs 5 min from the house ..
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Old 05-22-2020, 05:53 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El General View Post
TPWD and CCA agree on most, if not all, issues from the recreational anglers perspective. They have the same goals in regards to recreational fisheries.
looks like they just disagreed on the flounder regs...
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Old 05-22-2020, 06:08 PM   #68
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Everybody that’s upset should boycott TPW, hit them where it hurts. Stop buying a license and fishing here in Texas. Louisiana has tons of fish and liberal bag limits.
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Old 05-22-2020, 06:13 PM   #69
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Everybody that’s upset should boycott TPW, hit them where it hurts. Stop buying a license and fishing here in Texas. Louisiana has tons of fish and liberal bag limits.
I'm ready to look at some new water
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Old 05-22-2020, 06:30 PM   #70
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It sucks they are closing down the entire fishery for 6 weeks in the fall. I have a lot of great childhood memories fishing the fall run with my dad and grandpa. I don't know why, but something about hitting up the Galveston channel after the first hard cold front used to just be the thing to do.

With that said, flounder really aren't hard to catch in the spring and summer months. The fact is, the majority of rec fishermen simply don't target flounder outside of the fall run. If you are persistent and learn to fish marsh drains, mouths of bayous, etc., on out-going tides, you will find flounder.
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Old 05-22-2020, 07:04 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by bollomb View Post
CCA is a joke.. Just take away from the weekend anglers while giving Commercial fishermen whatever they want.. Just like with anything else, just follow the money
CCA has definitely become a joke, just a social club for the haves now
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Old 05-22-2020, 09:38 PM   #72
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I'm ready to look at some new water

I hear Mexico fishing is off the chain.
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