Can Chauvin get a fair trial?

[ttechdallas]

Or that the officers knee on the back of his neck was not the ACTUAL cause of death..

That is what I generally meant by proving that Floyd was in the throes of dying and nothing he could have done would have prevented it.

Proving his knee wasn't the cause of death alone doesn't make him innocent. He has to prove it didn't contribute to his death and that there were no reasonable actions he could have taken that would have prevented his death.

He made the choice to ignore what was right in front of his and eyes and ears - both of the man he was on top of and all those around telling him what they were seeing to. You may feel differently but I cannot find any defense of the officer whatsoever. None.

[Artos]

Semantics...unless I'm misunderstanding the upgraded charges, the prosecution now has to prove he woke up that morning hell bent on killing Floyd. Is this correct or is it another murder charge of a lesser degree??

If the murder charge is as I'm 'assuming', we are being set up for just ONE witness to admit this is hogwash & we have another round of riots because it's impossible to prove...Involuntary was a slam dunk, murder w/ intent not so much.

If I'm misinterpreting the upgraded charges, please correct me...if I'm right, I smell a political rat wanting a not guilty verdict for further discourse.

[PondPopper]

It would be hard for me to convict a man of murdering someone who's start heart stopped during a struggle with this drug, plus others, in his system...

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjk6qLe7fjpAhVHRTABHcBfDxcQFjADegQIARAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fdrugabuse.com%2Ffentanyl%2Foverdose%2F&usg=AOvVaw2kzShdqjAl04NyCJRvFf1v

[glen]

TT- you have it backwards. The State would have to prove guilt he doesn’t have to prove innocence. And it has to be “beyond a doubt”. So if medically there is a possibility he was not cause of death then .... intent- if training shows this was how he was trained then intent? If he immediately called for EMS it kinda goes against intent.
The wheels of justice are suppose to turn where the State must prove beyond Any Reasonable Doubt that he is guilty of the charges as written- It seems to be evolving for LE that the accused must prove innocence beyond Any Doubt.

[ttechdallas]

TT- you have it backwards. The State would have to prove guilt he doesn’t have to prove innocence. And it has to be “beyond a doubt”. So if medically there is a possibility he was not cause of death then .... intent- if training shows this was how he was trained then intent? If he immediately called for EMS it kinda goes against intent.
The wheels of justice are suppose to turn where the State must prove beyond Any Reasonable Doubt that he is guilty of the charges as written- It seems to be evolving for LE that the accused must prove innocence beyond Any Doubt.

Semantics, my bad. He doesn't have to prove his innocence beyond a shadow of a doubt. That was not the point, however. It goes to his defense.

Unless Floyd would have died no matter what regardless what Chauvin did do / didn't do, there is no way to prove his negligence didn't contribute to Floyd's death. That will be almost impossible to defend without some startling new evidence in light of the video.

Like everyone else, I will wait for the trial as it should ultimately determine guilt or innocence. But I am not going to defend him myself nor presume that his trial will be unfair or diminish the outcome if he is found guilty.

[Duckologist]

He has to prove it didn't contribute to his death

Wrong. The prosecution has to prove it DID contribute to his death. Innocent until proven guilty in this country.

[glen]

TT- it is a big difference and not a play on words. The State would have to prove that he was the cause of death- not that it was a possibility he caused his death. All burden lay on the State in every criminal case- This is what the justice is built on and the backbone of the entire justice system.

I don't think that - guilty until proven innocent has near the same meaning as innocent until proven guilty. I don't think either is a play on words. One has a place in the justice system and the other doesn't. I have no idea if he or they are guilty or innocent in this case. I'm not defending them or condemning the men.

I would hope I am like every other person and wished all parties involved could hit the rewind button and live that day over again from the beginning. I am sure every person involved would have changed his actions including Floyd and Chauvin.

[LWC]

Wrong. The prosecution has to prove it DID contribute to his death. Innocent until proven guilty in this country.

Doesn't seem like a very steep hill to prove he contributed to his death. GF couldn't breath and he kept kneeling on him. GF apparently died and he kept kneeling on him for several more minutes. I'm open to any other evidence out there. But I'm not sure how anyone can justify the behavior of Chauvin.

[ttechdallas]

Wrong. The prosecution has to prove it DID contribute to his death. Innocent until proven guilty in this country.

Absent the context, you are correct as is "glen". And you are both ignoring the context of my words as well as evidence in the public domain.

What you are failing to acknowledge is that negligence unto itself could have contributed to his death. Look at what the officer ignored for that 8 plus minutes. If he was dying, choking, short of breath, and people are pleading the same with you, get off his back.

And please stop with the "innocent until proven guilty" stuff. It isn't relevant because we're not the jury. By that mantra some are clinging to, OJ didn't do it, Hillary has been exonerated of every charge levied against her, etc., and we should all be defending them every time someone suggests otherwise.

[Artos]

again, it would be a slam dunk if they stayed with involuntary...they screwed all of us by upping to murder. I see a hung jury & more riots in our future.

[Duckologist]

Doesn't seem like a very steep hill to prove he contributed to his death. GF couldn't breath and he kept kneeling on him. GF apparently died and he kept kneeling on him for several more minutes. I'm open to any other evidence out there. But I'm not sure how anyone can justify the behavior of Chauvin.

Should be open to other evidence since you have none now. No one is justifying the officers behavior either. The jurors will see all the evidence above and beyond a video snippet.

[Duckologist]

What you are failing to acknowledge is that negligence unto itself could have contributed to his death.

Not failing to acknowledge it and agree that it could have contributed to his death. The fact remains, the prosecution will have to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that George Floyds death was caused by that officer and not heart disease, corona virus, meth and fentanyl! They have their work cut out that's for sure.

[LWC]

Should be open to other evidence since you have none now. No one is justifying the officers behavior either. The jurors will see all the evidence above and beyond a video snippet.

I'd be glad to see all of the other evidence. But 9 minutes ain't a snippet.

[glen]

I hope he gets 12 people like LR on his jury. LR and I don’t know each other. I have seen posts of his for years. I hope the jury has an open mind- listens and makes educated decisions in this and every other criminal trial - Not just in this case in every case. It will just be hard in this case to find 12 open minded individuals who don’t have pre existing guilt or innocence determined before hearing opening arguments or instructions

[Duckologist]

I hope he gets 12 people like LR on his jury. LR and I don’t know each other. I have seen posts of his for years. I hope the jury has an open mind- listens and makes educated decisions in this and every other criminal trial - Not just in this case in every case. It will just be hard in this case to find 12 open minded individuals who don’t have pre existing guilt or innocence determined before hearing opening arguments or instructions

Tis true