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Old 11-22-2021, 06:09 PM   #1
AJACKS
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Default Might need a bigger pistol

So I was hunting yesterday, sitting in my truck because that's how we roll in farm country when a coyote cruises by at literally 10 yards. Instead of rolling him up with the 243 AI, I grabbed the M&P 9mm. First shot to the vitals and he was spinning, second shot anchored him, sort of. Hornady 124 gr Critical Defense, both rounds in the boiler room. I went to retrieve him 5 or so minutes later and he picks his head up to look at me. Why in the **** is this thing not dead? 3rd one between the eyes and he goes for a tailgate ride. I'm not much of a pistol guy, but this is my edc gun, and all I can think about is "what if this coyote was a bad guy? What's the green screens opinion on 9mm? I'm leaning towards a 10 mm now or a wheel gun in something way bigger.
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Old 11-22-2021, 06:12 PM   #2
RR 314
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Others will disagree, but a lot of LEOs have had the snot beaten out of them with the perp with numerous 9mm holes in him. .45 ACP is how I roll.
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Old 11-22-2021, 06:21 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by AJACKS View Post
So I was hunting yesterday, sitting in my truck because that's how we roll in farm country when a coyote cruises by at literally 10 yards. Instead of rolling him up with the 243 AI, I grabbed the M&P 9mm. First shot to the vitals and he was spinning, second shot anchored him, sort of. Hornady 124 gr Critical Defense, both rounds in the boiler room. I went to retrieve him 5 or so minutes later and he picks his head up to look at me. Why in the **** is this thing not dead? 3rd one between the eyes and he goes for a tailgate ride. I'm not much of a pistol guy, but this is my edc gun, and all I can think about is "what if this coyote was a bad guy? What's the green screens opinion on 9mm? I'm leaning towards a 10 mm now or a wheel gun in something way bigger.
I donít care for 9ís either but that 10 will get it done!
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Old 11-22-2021, 06:22 PM   #4
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I killed 3 doe this year with my AR9mm. Iím a fan of the 147 grain out of the 9. All 3 were dead in a couple seconds.
First Doe I used Hornady 147 grain XTP
Second Doe I used a Federal 150 grain HST
Third Doe I used a Winchester 147 grain Silvertip.

That Federal HST popped some nice entry/exit holes. I would say it had the more impressive holes.
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Old 11-22-2021, 06:26 PM   #5
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while the bullet design lends itself to great feeding,, the plugged nose design all too often tends to retard the expansion,,, i am not a fan... try to find you some winchester silvertips, speer gold dots, or the newer sig brand hp's,,, a 9mm needs the bullet to expand and velocity is a major player in that happening, so bigger hollow points and increased velocity will do a better job,,,,
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Old 11-22-2021, 06:26 PM   #6
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I've shot them with rifles and they still be alive.

I wouldn't overthink it

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Old 11-22-2021, 06:37 PM   #7
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Ammo choice is the problem. Hornady had great marketing with the critical defense stuff but it often performs less than stellar. Over penetration and lack of expansion are typical for that particular projectile.
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Old 11-22-2021, 06:38 PM   #8
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Think about this. Nobody has told the coyote that he’s supposed to be dead. Humans and animals react differently to trauma. A normal human when shot with a couple 9mm bullets is probably gonna think he’s dying whether he actually is or not. The advantage of the 10mm would be bone breaking penetration, something not generally needed on a human frame. A bigger meplat on the bullet would benefit more than speed IMO. YMMV
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Old 11-22-2021, 06:44 PM   #9
K. Lane
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I say 45acp cause shootin twice is dumb
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Old 11-22-2021, 07:03 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Drycreek3189 View Post
Think about this. Nobody has told the coyote that heís supposed to be dead. Humans and animals react differently to trauma. A normal human when shot with a couple 9mm bullets is probably gonna think heís dying whether he actually is or not. The advantage of the 10mm would be bone breaking penetration, something not generally needed on a human frame. A bigger meplat on the bullet would benefit more than speed IMO. YMMV
How about a human on Crank?
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Old 11-22-2021, 07:11 PM   #11
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Pistols are horrible choices for killing something quickly even with heart shots. Doesnít matter the caliber much either. Some work better than others, but none work as well as a rifle.
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Old 11-22-2021, 07:13 PM   #12
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getcha a .40
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Old 11-22-2021, 07:19 PM   #13
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while the bullet design lends itself to great feeding,, the plugged nose design all too often tends to retard the expansion,,, i am not a fan... try to find you some winchester silvertips, speer gold dots, or the newer sig brand hp's,,, a 9mm needs the bullet to expand and velocity is a major player in that happening, so bigger hollow points and increased velocity will do a better job,,,,
I am going to agree with him. Find better bullets, something that will expand quickly.

The other problem is coyotes are tough, pound for pound, there is not much of anything as tough as a coyote. I shot a female coyote, years ago, with my AR, with my favorite 52 gr. hollow point. I hit her through the front of the left shoulder, blew the right shoulder almost completely off. When I went to pick up the coyote, she was still alive. She came at me, like she was going to tear me apart. So I put another one in her head.

I have shot many coyotes with perfect heart shots, quite often, they will run flat out and get out of site. Sometimes they only get about 30 yards, but some have gone past 100 yards. They typically run flat out, till the lack of blood to the brain catches up to them, then they hit the ground hard. I have shot two of them through the heart with a 17 HMR, both ran off, I found both about a week after shooting them. I started shooting them in the head with the 17 HMR, after that. The vast majority of the coyotes I have shot, were shot with my 223 AR, with the 52 gr. hollow points. Many of the coyotes I have heart shot, ran some distance before going down, sometimes they spin in circles before dropping. Those are a lot easier to find. The head shots seem to work best.
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Old 11-22-2021, 08:39 PM   #14
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You might need a cannon.

I shot a 20-30lb coyote right up the rear with a 30-06 loaded with a 130 grain Speer hollow point three weeks ago. When I got to him, he had a fist sized hole in his chest and I could visibly see the heart pumping blood out. I finished it off with a 9mm to the noggin.

Dogs are tough critters.
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Old 11-22-2021, 08:44 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xman59 View Post
while the bullet design lends itself to great feeding,, the plugged nose design all too often tends to retard the expansion,,, i am not a fan... try to find you some winchester silvertips, speer gold dots, or the newer sig brand hp's,,, a 9mm needs the bullet to expand and velocity is a major player in that happening, so bigger hollow points and increased velocity will do a better job,,,,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fajkus7 View Post
Ammo choice is the problem. Hornady had great marketing with the critical defense stuff but it often performs less than stellar. Over penetration and lack of expansion are typical for that particular projectile.
Both of these.

I'm willing to bet there is one, Maybe 2 people here who have seen more shot people than me. I've seen many a person take a licking and keep on ticking with those rubber filled bullets

From 380 to the mighty 45

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Old 11-22-2021, 08:54 PM   #16
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44 mag will get the job done


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Old 11-22-2021, 08:55 PM   #17
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My carry gun is a .357 2 inch revolver. When the SHTF, I don't have to worry if one is in the chamber, safety, or a jam. A misfire is possible but I don't have to clear the chamber either. Just keep pulling till the danger is gone.
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Old 11-22-2021, 09:03 PM   #18
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I know this will get me dog piled, but, it doesnít matter what round or weapon you use unless you are a good shooter. A 22 short will put you in the grave if it hits a kill spot.
Every class I have been in they always stress body mass, but if I have to take the shot itís from the neck up.
Practice Practice Practice Period.
By the way my edc is a Glock 357SIG.


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Old 11-22-2021, 09:19 PM   #19
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Others will disagree, but a lot of LEOs have had the snot beaten out of them with the perp with numerous 9mm holes in him. .45 ACP is how I roll.

I have read stories of the same happening to cops that carry 45ACP.

There is no discernible difference in terminal performance between 9mm, 40 S&W and 45 ACP all using the proper ammo.


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Old 11-22-2021, 10:28 PM   #20
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Coyotes are tough animals. I've shot a few with a 7.62x25 Tokarev using FMJ's. Which aren't very good for putting down live targets to begin with. A head shot was required on the two I've shot with it.

From the sound of it,it was bullet performance problems rather than a caliber or cartridge problem. Maybe the fur messed with bullet performance in some way but since it's a bullet built for personal defense I wouldn't think so.
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Old 11-22-2021, 10:35 PM   #21
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45 because they don’t make a 46. ��
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Old 11-22-2021, 10:37 PM   #22
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I've sent an arrow through them and shot one with a .22 LR. in the back yard, dead as nails. They have a survival instinct, much higher than people do.
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Old 11-22-2021, 10:39 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmTx View Post
I've shot them with rifles and they still be alive.

I wouldn't overthink it

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Agree, that's the tough "dog" in them.

But if you need any reason to purchase a firearm in the United States of America, a bigger coyote killing handgun for yielding out of the truck is an awesome friggin reason!

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Old 11-22-2021, 10:47 PM   #24
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The first shot seems like it probably hit the coyote in the liver. I've shot coyotes with a .223,watched them spin and they ran off. The 2nd one probably got him in the lungs. I shot one in the lungs with a .223 a few weeks ago and he ran 50 yards and died. They're super tough animals.
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Old 11-22-2021, 10:51 PM   #25
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Now the truth comes out.
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Old 11-23-2021, 05:59 AM   #26
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There is a reason why most law enforcement use a 9mm and it has nothing to do with stopping power. Less felt recoil means more accurate first shots and more accurate follow up shots. A 9mm has plenty of “stopping power” but ammo selection is going to be more critical compared to a larger caliber. It definitely sounds like you need to find a different round.
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Old 11-23-2021, 06:42 AM   #27
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If you want to carry a pistol to shoot hogs when going in/out of woods then get what you shoot well.

As far as for “protection” it probably is not needed for hogs. Only hogs I have ever seen charge had dogs on them and they were looking for way out. I was on their exit route. Have had one other that was gut shot and unable to run away so he decided his best chance was to fight. And I’ve been around a few hogs as I use to catch and sell them many years ago before it became illegal. Carried a handgun for my dogs as some hogs can and will give dogs a problem in the right place. Not sure what type of hogs some of you guys have but they ain’t East Tx or South Tx feral hogs
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Old 11-23-2021, 06:48 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Mike D View Post
I have read stories of the same happening to cops that carry 45ACP.

There is no discernible difference in terminal performance between 9mm, 40 S&W and 45 ACP all using the proper ammo.


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Correct answer. I carry a 9mm but use Speer Gold Dots.


I shot a coyote a couple years back at about 7 yards with a .30-06 and Hornady SSTís. It pushed him away from me and he took a dirt nap like I had flipped off his light switch.
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Old 11-23-2021, 06:51 AM   #29
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Triple Tap .... 2 to the chest and one to the head.
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Old 11-23-2021, 06:53 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by SabineHunter View Post
My carry gun is a .357 2 inch revolver. When the SHTF, I don't have to worry if one is in the chamber, safety, or a jam. A misfire is possible but I don't have to clear the chamber either. Just keep pulling till the danger is gone.
That's exactly why I carry a Glock....16 rounds of perfection!
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Old 11-23-2021, 07:01 AM   #31
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Here is my opinion. Switch to Federal HST or Speer gold dot. heavier better bullet but 9mm is adequate for personal protection…AND buy another gun. Because buying guns is fun and you have an excuse to get another one now!
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Old 11-23-2021, 07:03 AM   #32
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Triple Tap .... 2 to the chest and one to the head.
Ding Ding Ding, we have a winner
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Old 11-24-2021, 12:44 AM   #33
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Personally I prefer a bulldog 44 ,it's stops anything ,I did shot a yote twice in the neck and once in the *** as it ran away only to kill it the following morning with a shotgun ,I believe it went rabid or something ,it had decided it could live by the old barn and came back there to die
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Old 11-24-2021, 05:49 AM   #34
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I wouldn't think that bullet would expand much at all on a yote. It's made to get thru clothing etc. so it prolly zipped right thru that thin skinned doggy like a fmj. Then there's how dang tough those rascals are!
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Old 11-24-2021, 07:03 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckshot4900 View Post
I know this will get me dog piled, but, it doesnít matter what round or weapon you use unless you are a good shooter. A 22 short will put you in the grave if it hits a kill spot.
Every class I have been in they always stress body mass, but if I have to take the shot itís from the neck up.
Practice Practice Practice Period.
By the way my edc is a Glock 357SIG.


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gota agreeI killed 5+ with my 22 short all at about 20y..We live on the edge of wooded pasture ..and dump our food scraps/bones etc. over fence for whomever hungry..about 15y from my patio...Seen fox/coons/stray cats/straydogs /coons/hogs/birds/possums/shunks/a few bobcats over last 40y//I never shot any..But when Coyote show up I stick 22 out Living room window..and Pop them 1 time through rib cage with either 22short or 22CBcaps
they trot of into bush...Next day I go take a look ,they all are <100y dead.(Never Failed to find one dead)..I have neighbors on both sides maybe 15y away they never know tell I tell them...neck anchors the right on spot ..but my lighting aint that good and old eyes and open sights don't help..

I hear the excuses bad bullets /not big enough caliber/bad broadheads..I aint gona come up with a percentage . But most Lost Game either still alive and hurt/or dead and not found...are simply (Bad SHOT)not in kill zone...or Bad TRACKING skills..Cause if you simply stuck a PENCIL through rib cage and through both lungs and or heart (THEY DEAD THEY JUST DON"T KNOW IT YET)...Ya just gota find them..and Like I always say A Gut Shot is still a Gut Shot with a 222 or a 460 w or arrow
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Old 11-24-2021, 07:12 AM   #36
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Years ago I shot one with my 7 mag, and never found him. Have no clue where I hit, but he spun around like those horses on yellow stone. Then took off.
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Old 11-24-2021, 07:37 AM   #37
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.357 sig boys
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Old 11-24-2021, 07:41 AM   #38
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45 because they donít make a 46. ��
They make a 50.
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Old 11-24-2021, 07:45 AM   #39
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5" Springfield .40 underwood 155 grain xtp.
This hog was 75 yards, I have killed 3 other hogs with this round.The issue with pistol cartridges is by bullet speed, go to a 5" + barrel and fast bullets.
I have shot hogs with 10mm, 44 mag, and the .40 the results were identical but the 40 is much faster for follow ups
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Old 11-24-2021, 07:58 AM   #40
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Most handgun ammo is designed and tested with full length barrels (normally 5" or longer). Now days the trend is shorter more concealable handguns 4" or shorter so the hollow points don't expand well if at all then add in hair clogging the hollow point and it turns into an FMJ. I'm not a big fan of hollow points i have seen them fail to expand many times. The best designed bullet I have found that delivers the most shock has been a semi flat point or as it was originally called a truncated cone hard cast lead no copper jacket.
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Old 11-24-2021, 08:08 AM   #41
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Nothing less than a .40 will do. On many deployments, I’ve seen several people continuing on with several 9mm rounds in them. As typical, military and police are always out gunned. Just my opinion.
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Old 11-24-2021, 08:34 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckshot4900 View Post
I know this will get me dog piled, but, it doesn’t matter what round or weapon you use unless you are a good shooter. A 22 short will put you in the grave if it hits a kill spot.
Every class I have been in they always stress body mass, but if I have to take the shot it’s from the neck up.
Practice Practice Practice Period.
By the way my edc is a Glock 357SIG.


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True to some extent....but I will add I shot one right in the side of the head at about 30 yds with 22 short and you could hear to smack when that lead hit bone, and that sucker got up and ran off, and this was a regular town coyote, that liked to eat trash if you know what I mean. He came back around a month later healthy as can be. Didn't eat my trash, but I recognized him from his markings.
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Old 11-24-2021, 08:36 AM   #43
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You never take a pistol to a gun fight.
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Old 11-24-2021, 08:40 AM   #44
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His buddy didn't do as well, he got a 22 LR going 1435fps to the lungs and he was done.
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Old 11-24-2021, 07:24 PM   #45
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This coyote was shot once with a 300winmag.
He spun in a circle and then ran about 30 yards!
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Old 11-24-2021, 07:33 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FIRETX12 View Post
45 because they donít make a 46. ��
But they do make a 50. So why 45 or 46.
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Old 11-25-2021, 07:42 AM   #47
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Coyotes are just about impossible to kill, haven't y'all seen the documentary on the roadrunner trying to kill one?

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Old 11-26-2021, 09:04 PM   #48
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You can split hairs over bullet type, weight and velocity all you want but most defensive handgun cartridges are honestly dang poor killers. Handguns are only good because they are handy and concealable. Beyond that they lack in every department. What was the Clint Smith quote? Something about a handgun just being something to fight your way back to the rifle you should have never put down. There is a whole lot of truth to that.
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