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Broadhead tuning issues. Rest maxed out

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    #16
    Originally posted by enewman View Post
    I agree with the grouping.

    A couple of years ago, I was in a post with Tim Gillingham. Tim told me I would not be able to group a fixed broadhead at 100yards. He bet me $1000. I took the bet. I then wrote up the procedure. He backed out. In the procedure, we had to shoot six arrows. By doing this, we could see our groups' size at 100 yards. Then as long as I put the broadhead into that group, I would show him.

    He didn't like that procedure. hahahaha.

    In the rifle world, bullets have different ballistic coefficients that come into play. I know it’s apples to oranges, but is it? It seems as if there is a hard fast line drawn that your bow isint tuned if fbbh and field points don’t impact the same hole. What would you consider a fair assessment for the two in proximity? Mine are always within 2-3 inches but I feel the need to tweak the sight because I want them to hit exactly behind the pen.

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      #17
      Originally posted by SRK14 View Post
      In the rifle world, bullets have different ballistic coefficients that come into play. I know it’s apples to oranges, but is it? It seems as if there is a hard fast line drawn that your bow isint tuned if fbbh and field points don’t impact the same hole. What would you consider a fair assessment for the two in proximity? Mine are always within 2-3 inches but I feel the need to tweak the sight because I want them to hit exactly behind the pen.
      There is no tuning involved with a gun to achieve bullet flight. You must tune your bow to achieve straight arrow flight. And yes, YOU must do it because no one shoots your bow like you shoot your bow.

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        #18
        Originally posted by SRK14 View Post
        In the rifle world, bullets have different ballistic coefficients that come into play. I know it’s apples to oranges, but is it? It seems as if there is a hard fast line drawn that your bow isint tuned if fbbh and field points don’t impact the same hole. What would you consider a fair assessment for the two in proximity? Mine are always within 2-3 inches but I feel the need to tweak the sight because I want them to hit exactly behind the pen.
        I don't shoot long distances anymore. but at 20 yards if you shoot the field point first you should cut the fletchings off when the broadhead is shot.

        30 yards and on, yes you will see a little spread.

        now can you get this closer yes?. But tuning will become a pain in the butt.

        If I was going to build a long-range hunting arrow with fixed heads. first I would buy good arrows and spine tests. I want arrows with no variance around the shaft. next, I will have my bow tuned with an extremely stiff arrow. I call it (HVPS tuning) next I will take the arrow with the most amount of deflection from the spine test. I will use the cut and trim method.

        one thing to think about here is the center of gravity (FOC) I'm going to want it around 25%. this is just for arrow stabilization. once I finish the cut and trim. I should have a bullet hole in paper at 20 yards bare shaft.

        next, I'm going to fletch and shoot at a long distance. then I will start cutting the fletchings till the flight goes to crap. once that is found I back up to the size right before that point.

        now I go shooting. This type of setup should get that broadhead with a field point.

        I have only done this once. good results. for what I do and 90% or more hunters it's a big waste of time. If I was to go back to hunting long distance I would go with a mechanical broadhead. less flight tuning needed.

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          #19
          Originally posted by Duckologist View Post
          There is no tuning involved with a gun to achieve bullet flight. You must tune your bow to achieve straight arrow flight. And yes, YOU must do it because no one shoots your bow like you shoot your bow.

          I agree, everyone’s grip is vastly different. I’m not a certified bow technician, but I do have all the tools, press, drawboard and a room dedicated to it. The point of my comparison was that if 2 bullets were both fired at the same velocity, grain weight BUT different ballistic coefficients they wouldn’t hit the same. Then there’s the topic of crossbows.. to my knowledge a crossbow is what it is. I would assume the arrow tracks would be true because they are made with high end machinery. But still people have to adjust for broadheads. I enjoy learning on these topics and like to hear from people who have lots of experience. I’ve only been in the game for 10 years.

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            #20
            I had the same issue with my VXR 31.5 where I ran out of lateral adjustment for my rest, I took it in to my bow shop and they tuned it, was still having the same issue so I took it back in and they put spacers on my Cam Axles to essentially move the whole system over in the opposite direction. Then had them tune it again.

            That took care of the issue for me, not sure if it'll help you, but good Luck!!

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              #21
              Haven’t read through all of the responses, but Enewman knows his stuff.

              I can pretty well guaranty your arrows are weak at that spec. I shoot 28” 73# bow and I can barely get 300 spine to tune out of it with 210 grains up front cut to about 27.25”.

              Re set everything to factory spec, re set your center shot, and start over. Cut that arrow back incrementally and see what happens. If you get it so short that it will come too close to the rest for comfort, go get a 250 spine and start over. If cutting your 300 spine to about 28” gets you really close, try backing your tiller bolts out a half turn to reduce weight. If that continues to work, you should be able to tune your arrows to perfection.

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                #22
                You or your bow are out of whack. Enewman knows what he’s talking about, but I will throw my two cents in and I personally believe it’s a very simple, but very important step that gets overlooked.

                If I have a bow that has to be set that much out of whack to tune and we know it’s not the shooter, you have to start completely over.

                The first thing I do is remove string and cables, put them on my drawboard with 100lbs of tension and measure them. You’d be surprised how many times string and cable specs are out of whack, even from the manufacturer. 9 times out of 10, it’s a quick easy tune from there once they are set correctly, as long as the spine of the arrow is where it needs to be and the shooter doesn’t torque in a bad way.

                I think most anybody that knows how to properly tune a compound bow would agree with me that when it is tuned correctly, it doesn’t matter what broadhead you screw on the end of it. They will all hit the same spot along with your field points.
                Last edited by Sleepy; 12-24-2021, 01:36 PM.

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                  #23
                  Originally posted by Sleepy View Post
                  You or your bow are out of whack. Enewman knows what he’s talking about, but I will throw my two cents in and I personally believe it’s a very simple, but very important step that gets overlooked.

                  If I have a bow that has to be set that much out of whack to tune and we know it’s not the shooter, you have to start completely over.

                  The first thing I do is remove string and cables, put them on my drawboard with 100lbs of tension and measure them. You’d be surprised how many times string and cable specs are out of whack, even from the manufacturer. 9 times out of 10, it’s a quick easy tune from there once they are set correctly, as long as the spine of the arrow is where it needs to be and the shooter doesn’t torque in a bad way.

                  I think most anybody that knows how to properly tune a compound bow would agree with me that when it is tuned correctly, it doesn’t matter what broadhead you screw on the end of it. They will all hit the same spot along with your field points.

                  I’d agree with this. Even if I’m shooting mechanicals I always bare shaft tune through paper, test bareshaft with fletched at 20 yards and if all lines up my broadheads hit with field points. Out to 50+ yards they’ll lose some elevation just because of the wind drag. Never had left and right issues if bareshaft tune through paper is good.


                  Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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                    #24
                    Listen to enewman

                    When i was chasing my tail with broadhead flight. It was a combo of my grip and nock pinch.

                    Get everything squared back up to spec, And shoot through paper. Bare shaft isn’t a bad idea either

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                      #25
                      Thanks to all who have replied!

                      So I've cut the shafts to 27 3/4", dropped the head weight to 100 gr + 60 gr insert, and decreased the draw weight to 65#. No single change or a combination of all the changes have helped.

                      I haven't had the string measured but I'll try to have that done tomorrow. Any other suggestions?
                      In tuning the bow, which I spent hours trying to do today, the best I could get it tuned (maybe 1/4" straight left tear) was with the most aggressive tophats moving the cams to the left and rest maxed out to the right.

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                        #26
                        Originally posted by JohnTheGoodAg View Post
                        Thanks to all who have replied!

                        So I've cut the shafts to 27 3/4", dropped the head weight to 100 gr + 60 gr insert, and decreased the draw weight to 65#. No single change or a combination of all the changes have helped.

                        I haven't had the string measured but I'll try to have that done tomorrow. Any other suggestions?
                        In tuning the bow, which I spent hours trying to do today, the best I could get it tuned (maybe 1/4" straight left tear) was with the most aggressive tophats moving the cams to the left and rest maxed out to the right.


                        so if you had a left nock and you moved the cams to the left (small gap on the left larger gap on right) and that arrow didn't change at all. it's you.

                        now, there can be lots of issues to look at.

                        but let's first start with a bare shaft. set the rest to 13/16. back up to 5 yards and shoot it through the paper. post pick.

                        also draw length being incorrect will also do this.

                        I want to add. you need to do this with an arrow that doesn't require nock tuning. so shoot a bare shaft. rotate the nock 90 degrees. if tear changes you need a different arrow. now do not just do this with one shot only. you need to make sure you have a repeatable tear. around 5 out of 5 times. You do not then stop. we need to go a different route. a good arrow to look at buying is blackeagle carnoivor .001. just always test by turning the nock. you do not want a change.

                        still can be the rest you are using. limb issues cam timing and cam sync.cam lean just to name a few.

                        make sure bow is in spec as well data and brace
                        Last edited by enewman; 12-28-2021, 06:35 PM.

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