Tiger Woods: Does Anybody Even Care?

[adam_p]

Majors?

7, but just like everything else people try to compare it isn't a fair comparison. Jack played substantially more majors than Sam. Sam only went to the Open 5 times.

[HC Sniper]

As usual, this thread got off track a long time ago. The question was, does anybody care if Tiger comes back or not? Nobody questions Tiger's impact on golf while he was playing at a high level, but that is not now. He will never play at a high level for any extended period of time ever again. His swing mechanics and his inability to rationally diagnosis his physical problems, will not allow him to get healthy enough to survive on tour. That is just fact.
Titleist, Ping, Calloway are not going away. The other golf companies that are in trouble might not make it but it is not because golf itself is in trouble. The PGA tour is at its highest point ever. Tournament money is also holding strong as is tournament spectator numbers. The "Young Guns" will take the PGA tour into the future.
Jordan Speith is ever bit as good as Tiger was at his age. Tiger had 1 more win overall but Jordan has won 2 majors to Tiger's one at the same age. Jordan has more top 10s and more top 5s than Tiger had, also. Jordan will not grow the games like Tiger did but that is only because the game had room for a lot more growth when Tiger started than it does now with Jordan. Anybody who thinks that golf is going to decline is not living in the real world.

[ghostgoblin22]

I agree with you,but Freddie Couples comes to mind when I start hearing people talk about Tiger's bad back..He fought it off,and still won from time to time.

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Freddie's swing allows him to be very good at the late stages of his career and it's easy on the back, think about tigers swing over the years, how violent it was, that swing isn't back friendly in the late stages of a golfers career, so right now he's battling old swing habits along with a terrible back, he's having to adjust everything so he can compete in his 40's


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[CaptainDave]

And much weaker fields of players, and much shorter courses.

It's apples to oranges.

Weaker field of players? One could make an argument that the current field of players is better than it was when Tiger was in his prime.

Shorter courses? Sure, but what about inferior equipment? Club and ball technology has come a good ways even since the 80's. It can't be denied that players hit the ball further today because of better equipment.

Bottom line, you can't really compare 2 different generations of players. This applies for most sports. All that can be said is most certainly some of these players maintained a level of dominance over the other competition.

[adam_p]

Yup but...if you lose it off the fairway with TODAY'S GEAR....Back then, you couldn't find the ball.

Jack could smash it 345 yards with PERSIMMON, STEEL, LEATHER and BALATA. He did it one time, at a PGA event...during the days, each PGA Event had a long drive contest. He only did it one time and smacked it 345 down the middle, won the long drive...and never did it again. It wasn't Jack's style.

We must remember, when Jack won the 1986 Masters @ 46 years old, he played against a new field of talent. And he also played against some of the top 20 golfers of all time, who in their own right, have set records beyond the new crowd now.

And then he went into the PGA Seniors Tour - and continued to smash them over 50 years old.

So let's see if Tiger can make a cut at 50 plus?

Trevino, Player & Palmer continued to smoke them in the Senior tour events past 50.


Watson
Snead
Hogan
Trevino
Player
Palmer
Floyd
Casper
Ballesteros
Miller
Faldo
Norman

Just to name a few.

And they didn't have a fubar'd back.

[LWC]

yeah ben Hogan was healthy again when he won late in his career, so did tom Watson, so was jack, tigers back is gone, if he can get completely healthy he will win again, confidence has a lot to do with being healthy, if you're not healthy every golfer will say it destroys your confidence. Think clearly people

You definitely haven't studied a lot of golf history if you think Ben Hogan was healthy after his wreck and won most of his majors.

[adam_p]

It's apples to oranges.

Weaker field of players? One could make an argument that the current field of players is better than it was when Tiger was in his prime. It absolutely is better now.

Shorter courses? Sure, but what about inferior equipment? Club and ball technology has come a good ways even since the 80's. It can't be denied that players hit the ball further today because of better equipment. Sure they hit the ball farther, and that helps more than my next point, but they lost a bunch of control when lowering the spin

Bottom line, you can't really compare 2 different generations of players. This applies for most sports. All that can be said is most certainly some of these players maintained a level of dominance over the other competition.I agree 100% which is why saying Jack is absolutely the greatest of all time and no argument can be made against it is a dumb statement.

.

[adam_p]

Majors

Jack won 18 of 164

Sam Snead won 7 of 118

Tiger won 14 of 76

To say Jack is the greatest because he won more majors is ridiculous.

[ghostgoblin22]

You definitely haven't studied a lot of golf history if you think Ben Hogan was healthy after his wreck and won most of his majors.

Yeah I actually do, he may have not been 100% but his swing was healthy, he didn't have to change swings like tiger has too, that's fact, I know very well of hogan.


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[LWC]

Yeah I actually do, he may have not been 100% but his swing was healthy, he didn't have to change swings like tiger has too, that's fact, I know very well of hogan.


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From a Golf Digest article.

A Hogan biographer, Curt Sampson, posits that the damage to Hogan's left-eye vision in the accident was the source of his increasing struggles on the greens during the '50s and '60s -- most notably a tendency to freeze over putts before managing a jerky stroke.

As far as Hogan's swing, only the closest eye could detect any difference in his action in the early years of his comeback. Venturi, however, was aware of a foreboding truth. "Ben never again felt really good physically on the golf course," he says. "Something was different. He overcame it with his mind and his guts and his talent, but he knew he had lost something."

According to Hogan biographer James Dodson, Hogan told Claude Harmon and close friend Marvin Leonard that the damage to his knees and pelvis had reduced his hip turn through the ball and shortened the average length of his drive by about a dozen yards. To compensate, Hogan narrowed his stance slightly, but the marginally less dynamic swing produced more control and consistency. It was what Tiger Woods discovered when he softened his hitting action to compensate for a torn ACL in the summer of 2007 and went on to win 10 of 13 tournaments. Cary Middlecoff believed Hogan hit fewer poor shots after 1950, if perhaps not as many great ones.

Hogan also put on 20 or so pounds after the accident, some as a result of having to be less active and some because of a new regimen of strength training that Snead thought helped. In any case, the extra bulk might have allowed Hogan to maintain his length with less effort. Also, for what it's worth, at the beginning of 1953 Hogan stopped playing the MacGregor golf ball, widely considered by players of the time to be inferior, and won his Triple Crown playing Titleist.

As impressive as Hogan was to watch, after his victory at Carnoustie in the only British Open he ever played, he won only one more tournament, the 1959 Colonial. It supports the argument that Hogan's achievements from 1950 through 1953 were more than anything a triumph of will, one that couldn't overcome the gathering physical and mental toll of the accident.

[ghostgoblin22]

A Hogan biographer, Curt Sampson, posits that the damage to Hogan's left-eye vision in the accident was the source of his increasing struggles on the greens during the '50s and '60s -- most notably a tendency to freeze over putts before managing a jerky stroke.



As far as Hogan's swing, only the closest eye could detect any difference in his action in the early years of his comeback. Venturi, however, was aware of a foreboding truth. "Ben never again felt really good physically on the golf course," he says. "Something was different. He overcame it with his mind and his guts and his talent, but he knew he had lost something."



According to Hogan biographer James Dodson, Hogan told Claude Harmon and close friend Marvin Leonard that the damage to his knees and pelvis had reduced his hip turn through the ball and shortened the average length of his drive by about a dozen yards. To compensate, Hogan narrowed his stance slightly, but the marginally less dynamic swing produced more control and consistency. It was what Tiger Woods discovered when he softened his hitting action to compensate for a torn ACL in the summer of 2007 and went on to win 10 of 13 tournaments. Cary Middlecoff believed Hogan hit fewer poor shots after 1950, if perhaps not as many great ones.



Hogan also put on 20 or so pounds after the accident, some as a result of having to be less active and some because of a new regimen of strength training that Snead thought helped. In any case, the extra bulk might have allowed Hogan to maintain his length with less effort. Also, for what it's worth, at the beginning of 1953 Hogan stopped playing the MacGregor golf ball, widely considered by players of the time to be inferior, and won his Triple Crown playing Titleist.



As impressive as Hogan was to watch, after his victory at Carnoustie in the only British Open he ever played, he won only one more tournament, the 1959 Colonial. It supports the argument that Hogan's achievements from 1950 through 1953 were more than anything a triumph of will, one that couldn't overcome the gathering physical and mental toll of the accident.

You're quoting something I already know, I did a thesis on Hogan in college. His mental toughness is why he's considered one of the greatest, but like I said he didn't have to change swings, everything stayed the same, tiger is having to change everything,along side with a terrible back, high scores are imminent. I wouldn't question tigers mental when he's won 100 times worldwide.


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[LWC]

You're quoting something I already know, I did a thesis on Hogan in college. His mental toughness is why he's considered one of the greatest, but like I said he didn't have to change swings, everything stayed the same, tiger is having to change everything,along side with a terrible back, high scores are imminent. I wouldn't question tigers mental when he's won 100 times worldwide.


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Tiger used to have that mental toughness but he lost it after the 9 iron to the forehead. A bad back doesn't make you yip your chip shots and putts. Something he used to be the best at. Tiger has changed coaches and swings many times. Maybe some of his swing changes were due to injury but I think most were mental and trying to find a new coach with a new swing that could capture that lightning in a bottle.

[ghostgoblin22]

Tiger used to have that mental toughness but he lost it after the 9 iron to the forehead. A bad back doesn't make you yip your chip shots and putts. Something he used to be the best at. Tiger has changed coaches and swings many times. Maybe some of his swing changes were due to injury but I think most were mental and trying to find a new coach with a new swing that could capture that lightning in a bottle.

That's your opinion which your entitled too, talk to golf pro or insider they will side with injuries, the yips have nothing to do with a 9 iron the forehead


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[LWC]

That's your opinion which your entitled too, talk to golf pro or insider they will side with injuries, the yips have nothing to do with a 9 iron the forehead


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No, the yips have everything to do with being indecisive and losing your mojo. The kind of thing that happens when Earl has you built up and brainwashed that you are the greatest golfer, person, humanitarian the earth has ever seen. Then it comes out that you are a real person that makes really big mistakes. The guy was very sheltered as a child and young person. He has a lot of mental issues that I think contributed to his game slipping more than any injury. But I'm no pro golfer so it is just my opinion.

[adam_p]

Read today that the doctors are telling Tiger to stay horizontal but somehow they expect to be back at Bay Hill.

He need to hang it up and enjoy his kids and money.

Or figure out how to take his 75% power driving range swing to the course and play the courses like Furyk.